Class 373: My ideas for life after Eurostar

[gith]

With the introduction of the Class 374, some 373 sets will inevitably be displaced. To my knowledge, only the eight "North of London" sets can be used on Network Rail, though I may be wrong.

I can see some being displaced to SNCF, naturally. I could also see a gap in the market for longer distance Electric services, and as the 373 can operate on third rail, this opens potentially more doors for routes and lines to operate.

I'd like to see XC take some on to introduce services from the South/Southeast, i.e. Brighton, Portsmouth etc to Birmingham and possibly beyond. This eliminates a change at Reading or Southampton Central from Portsmouth, and from Brighton avoids London changes.

I'd like to hear any info about how 373s can be used in the UK and also your opinions on routes and operations.

 

[ainsworth74]

After stripping for parts for the 373s that are continuing in service their future will be a trip to the nearest scrap yard for urgent conversion into razor blades.

 

[crehld]

After stripping for parts for the 373s that are continuing in service their future will be a trip to the nearest scrap yard for urgent conversion into razor blades.

Indeed. It would be nice to see them used for something more constructive and, say, provide extra capacity. But they were built as a high speed train designed to run on specific high speed routes.

I remember travelling on them when they used to run up to Leeds from Kings Cross. They were slower than the 91s because if they went any faster they'd overload OHLE and they were a right faff to operate as all the platforms were too short.

 

[RobShipway]

373's where stripped of their 3rd gear equipment when the trains moved from Waterloo International to St Pancras International, so you would have the cost of re - applying the 3rd rail show gear so that they can be used.

Also, would people if they where travelling from Portsmouth/Southampton want to be travelling towards London to go round via Kensington Olympia, to then go across GWML to join the North London route so that the train could join the WCML at Willesden Junction, when it would be quicker to go northwards from Basingstoke to Reading to then travel nortrhwards?

 

[superalbs]

Could SE take them to work alongside the 395s?

 

[RobShipway]

Could SE take them to work alongside the 395s?

Unless they are doing trains just om HS1, you would have the extra cost as I posted above with adding 3rd rail running gear to them which was stripped off them when the Eurostar trains moved to St Pancras.

 

[TheEdge]

Displaced 373s have one place they'll go...

Given SNCF have already scrapped some of their "373" units and have plenty of much newer TGV stock I can't see many going there. As for domestic use in the UK there is pretty much nowhere they can be put to use. Look at the restrictions on the working of the NoL sets.

 

[D365]

Unless they are doing trains just om HS1, you would have the extra cost as I posted above with adding 3rd rail running gear to them which was stripped off them when the Eurostar trains moved to St Pancras.

Costs to reinstate the running gear won't be significant... It's the poor acceleration compared to the Javelins, and the cost of refurbishment (to bring them up to a suitable standard) which would put paid to your 'idea'.

 

[RobShipway]

Costs to reinstate the running gear won't be significant... It's the poor acceleration compared to the Javelins, and the cost of refurbishment (to bring them up to a suitable standard) which would put paid to your 'idea'.

It was not my idea, it was gith and superalbs ideas. I was just stating a fact that you would have the cost of having 3rd rail running gear to b re - added to the 373's, if they where to be used again on the 3rd rail network.

Personally, if a route could be found that is electrified between Glasgow and Edingburgh where the 373's can be used, then I would have them used on that route.

 

[47802]

It was not my idea, it was gith and superalbs ideas. I was just stating a fact that you would have the cost of having 3rd rail running gear to b re - added to the 373's, if they where to be used again on the 3rd rail network.

Personally, if a route could be found that is electrified between Glasgow and Edingburgh where the 373's can be used, then I would have them used on that route.

Yes I'm sure trying to get one into Queen Street would be interesting. the bottom line is they are not really suitable for any UK service, well you could put one on the Stourbridge branch as it wouldn't actually need to move you could just walk through it.

 

[dlj83]

Maybe Vivarail have some ideas for them

 

[gith]

Also, would people if they where travelling from Portsmouth/Southampton want to be travelling towards London to go round via Kensington Olympia, to then go across GWML to join the North London route so that the train could join the WCML at Willesden Junction, when it would be quicker to go northwards from Basingstoke to Reading to then travel nortrhwards?

Doing that removes a change. Whilst the route may be longer, the average commuter/long distance leisure traveller won't mind as it means they don't have to get out into the cold.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Conversion in 442s?

What about transfering to VTEC for fast KGX - YRK?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Given how many more trains are in use since they were last on 3rd rail they would probably be very limited as to how fast they could go to avoid tripping the power supplies

 

[Domh245]

Reasons why this is a good idea:
1) Potentially frees up rolling stock

Reasons why this is a bad idea:
1) They would accelerate like a heavily drugged sloth (relative to other stock)
2) They would suck up a lot of power
3) They have ~1 single door per carriage, not very useful on journeys with more than a couple of stops

4) Doesn't involve any 442s!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Maybe Vivarail have some ideas for them

Rumour has it...

 

[plastictaffy]

Take the power cars from either end, sandwich a 442 with no motors or power supply, and use them on the transpennine route, dragged by a pair of Baby Deltics??

No??

 

[dgl]

it's simple really, strip out the power cars and add diesel-electric traction packages, shorten them and voila! DDA (I assume) compliant HST type sets.

 

[RobShipway]

Doing that removes a change. Whilst the route may be longer, the average commuter/long distance leisure traveller won't mind as it means they don't have to get out into the cold.

Having travelled when I was younger either the Brighton - Manchester or Brighton - Edingburgh trains, I can see where you are coming from especially with the trains going through Kensintgton Olympia, however it was very rare that there would be paths available on the WCML, which meant from Kensington Olympia the trains went via Old Oak Common, travelled down to Reading, then just before Didcot took the Oxford Curve.

At the time I was travelling up to Birmingham with my parents and sister, which yes did make it easier for us than travelling through London, but it was also a longer Journey.

The other problem you have is that these routes need to be publicised correctly so that people would interested in travelling on trains on the routes.

Now, the only way other way that I can see the 373's being used other than between Glasgow and Edingburgh is if they where converted into Hybrid trains in some form and I am not just talking about adding the 3rd rail shoes back on them either. I am wandering if powerful enough Paxman diesel engines to take the 373's to at least 100mph could be added to them in some way?

 

[Murph]

Maybe Vivarail have some ideas for them

So, if you whip out the transformer and other unnecessary electrical gubbins, just how many Ford Transit engines could you fit inside the body of a 373 power car?

 

[gith]

I was thinking hypothetically about the possibility of taking out the electric motors and replacing with VP185s or similar.

Though my other thought, these surely wouldn't operate in full formation, Eurostar trains are known for being bloody long.

 

[D365]

Surely you'd want to retain the motors at each end and make use of the MTU engines pool as a mock-HST. *wibble dribble actuated*

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I was thinking hypothetically about the possibility of taking out the electric motors and replacing with VP185s or similar.

Though my other thought, these surely wouldn't operate in full formation, Eurostar trains are known for being bloody long.

No, just no. Trains are a little more complicated than LEGO.

Fuel tanks, cooler groups, ventilation, oil separation, exhaust systems, clean air provision, sound deadening, new wiring, compressor design and on and on and on.

Weights including individual axle weights, centre of gravity calculations, track force calculations because of all of the above, regauging because of height and ride geometry changes.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

So, if you whip out the transformer and other unnecessary electrical gubbins, just how many Ford Transit engines could you fit inside the body of a 373 power car?

112 is your answer

 

[gimmea50anyday]

They could be used on the ECML, an extensive refurb would be needed to bring up to modern day standards and presentation but they would also need shortening to a 10 or 11 car formation. Wether they are actually capable of that or not remains to be seen as i have no idea but the reduction in length would bring an improvement in acceleration. Re-gearing for a lower top end speed would also be required which again would make all the difference. Wether the cost would be practicable given the age and the impending arrival of SET's for such a small fleet that really has no other suitable route available really puts the idea out to pasture unfortunately.

Baked bean tins it is....

 

[jopsuk]

remember that with shortened sets you end up with over 50m of train length that has no passenger or luggage capacity. And the carriages themselves are quite short

 

[cjmillsnun]

They could be used on the ECML, an extensive refurb would be needed to bring up to modern day standards and presentation but they would also need shortening to a 10 or 11 car formation. Wether they are actually capable of that or not remains to be seen as i have no idea but the reduction in length would bring an improvement in acceleration. Re-gearing for a lower top end speed would also be required which again would make all the difference. Wether the cost would be practicable given the age and the impending arrival of SET's for such a small fleet that really has no other suitable route available really puts the idea out to pasture unfortunately.

Baked bean tins it is....

You would need OHLE upgrades on the ECML. Parts of it could barely cope with 373s before. Also you would have to accept 110MPH as the maximum speed. I really doubt that VTEC would want them.

 

[Phil.]

With the introduction of the Class 374, some 373 sets will inevitably be displaced. To my knowledge, only the eight "North of London" sets can be used on Network Rail, though I may be wrong.

I can see some being displaced to SNCF, naturally. I could also see a gap in the market for longer distance Electric services, and as the 373 can operate on third rail, this opens potentially more doors for routes and lines to operate.

I'd like to see XC take some on to introduce services from the South/Southeast, i.e. Brighton, Portsmouth etc to Birmingham and possibly beyond. This eliminates a change at Reading or Southampton Central from Portsmouth, and from Brighton avoids London changes.

I'd like to hear any info about how 373s can be used in the UK and also your opinions on routes and operations.

They're clapped-out. Poor acceleration, only one door per coach, useless toilets (people think that the ones on Pendolinos are bad!), Wa-ay too electrically complicated.

 

[hulabaloo]

I don't care how poorly they perform, they sound fantastic at full pelt!

 

[332 > 444]

UK rail network isn't that keen on articulated sets and too much capacity taken up in their locos and adjoining coaches