Class 374 at Temple Mills

[Voyager 2093]

4007 & 4008 are at Temple Mills currently.

 

[DXMachina]

looks good - thanks for the tip-off

Look at the branding on the 66 series EMD diesel pulling it here. This shot could confuse a few people....

 

[Class377/5]

It arrived on 30th January.

Here's it shunting around.

Photos are Paul Bigland's.

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought it had been discussed before, and it has, but the posts all seem to have been erroneously inserted in the 'refurbished Eurostar' thread over in the international section... :roll:

 

[TheJRB]

That looks great. I like the new livery but whether the 373s will look so good in it is another matter. Still anything would be better than the apparent mix of white and dirt that they currently display! Can't wait to see these units in action on HS1 and it'll be nice to see a bit more variety on the line. Is there any word on test runs yet?

 

[chris89]

I have to say the E320 looks incredibly smart. Nice difference of age to with the 08 (Or is it a 09?) and the new unit.

Chris

 

[bronzeonion]

Nice livery, shame about the rest of it! Is it only me who thinks it looks like an incredibly fat slug/whale?

 

[asylumxl]

It arrived on 30th January.

Here's it shunting around.]

Gauge testing I have heard.

 

[DownSouth]

Nice livery, shame about the rest of it! Is it only me who thinks it looks like an incredibly fat slug/whale?

Spent your whole life in Britain and never seen a proper-sized train?

 

[Electrostar]

Interesting to see the 374 here on the day a Railway Gazette casts doubt on DB's plans to operate London-Germany services because of Valero D delays.
http://mobile.railwaygazette.com/index.php/news/news/profile/20719

Obviously realise the Valero D is different than the e320 (Class 374).

 

[DownSouth]

Interesting to see the 374 here on the day a Railway Gazette casts doubt on DB's plans to operate London-Germany services because of Valero D delays.
http://mobile.railwaygazette.com/index.php/news/news/profile/20719

Obviously realise the Valero D is different than the e320 (Class 374).

Everything I've read seems to indicate that the Velaro D and Velaro e320 are effectively different length sets/half-sets of what is effectively the same train, and as well as the majority of the technical components they also share the troubled gestation.

The DB story sounds like a bog standard case of a large organisation putting pressure on a lagging contractor once the delays have started to become unacceptable - but the Velaro D project is too far advanced to cancel and start from scratch with a Zefiro or AGV procurement project instead. The DB London services will surely come at some point, just when is the question.

What does have the capacity to completely sink the DB London services (rather than just delaying them) is a continuation of the ridiculous security/passport theatre imposed on Eurostar by lobbyists for the airline industry.

 

[sprinterguy]

Spent your whole life in Britain and never seen a proper-sized train?

It being a "proper-sized train" has nothing to do with it. Our continental train builders have no problems making their proper-sized trains look nice, the E320s' older cousin, the original Siemens Velaro, being one of the best cases in point. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, of course, but in my opinion they've gone and made a bit of a hash of it, aesthetically speaking, with the Velaro D and E320. I support bronzeonion's view.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm inclined to agree; I reckon the best looking TGVs are the original design with the two piece windscreen, in the blue and silver livery.

Talkning about TGV liveries: the latest white repaints just don't look very modern or sleek at all.

 

[MCR247]

Nice livery, shame about the rest of it! Is it only me who thinks it looks like an incredibly fat slug/whale?

It being a "proper-sized train" has nothing to do with it. Our continental train builders have no problems making their proper-sized trains look nice, the E320s' older cousin, the original Siemens Velaro, being one of the best cases in point. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, of course, but in my opinion they've gone and made a bit of a hash of it, aesthetically speaking, with the Velaro D and E320. I support bronzeonion's view.

I also agree. The ICE3/Velaro looks very nice, but I don't really like the Velaro D :?

 

[gordonthemoron]

The Velaro D does look seriously clunky compared to an ICE3, the cab ends are not as sleek, the roof line is higher and there are way too many pantographs (6?) for it to be aesthetically pleasing, however if it does it's job (and is comfy inside), what's the problem?

How many buffets will the E320 have? 2 like 373s?

 

[BananaRepublic]

What does have the capacity to completely sink the DB London services (rather than just delaying them) is a continuation of the ridiculous security/passport theatre imposed on Eurostar by lobbyists for the airline industry.

Hardly likely. It's the UK governments wish to preserve a closed border with its neighbours and a likely tightening of the restrictions in the future, that you should point a finger at. There is no lobbying from the airline industry which has to put up with a far worst "security/passport theatre", as you put it, than Eurostar.



.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Nice livery, shame about the rest of it! Is it only me who thinks it looks like an incredibly fat slug/whale?

In all fairness the travelling public couldn't care less what the train looks like. To be honest its just a train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What does have the capacity to completely sink the DB London services (rather than just delaying them) is a continuation of the ridiculous security/passport theatre imposed on Eurostar by lobbyists for the airline industry.

As far as I'm concerned anything that stops me being the victim of a terrorist attack has to be a good thing.

 

[asylumxl]

As far as I'm concerned anything that stops me being the victim of a terrorist attack has to be a good thing.

In the rest of Europe, where countries are complete members of the Schengen agreement, it doesn't seem as though they experience any increase in terrorist activity.

The reality with DB is that there is a conflict of interest with SNCF/SNCB/Eurostar, they are deliberately making it as hard as possible for others to offer a cross-channel service.

 

[RichmondCommu]

In the rest of Europe, where countries are complete members of the Schengen agreement, it doesn't seem as though they experience any increase in terrorist activity.

I concur but we Brits have made a rod for our own back through our foreign policy! Not to mention that the high speed link between London and the continent will always be regarded as a high profile target. I'd rather sacrifice speed for safety.

 

[bronzeonion]

Spent your whole life in Britain and never seen a proper-sized train?

No matey I'm used to proper high speed trains

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kuboki/4112497562/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmbdMqi6Xuk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In all fairness the travelling public couldn't care less what the train looks like. To be honest its just a train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


As far as I'm concerned anything that stops me being the victim of a terrorist attack has to be a good thing.

I'm not talking about the general traveling public though, this is my opinion.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'm not talking about the general traveling public though, this is my opinion.

That's fair enough but I'm afraid you'll always be in the minority in terms of public opinion. With respect to the actual design I wonder whether our loading gauge will often be a determining factor when considering the design of a train.

 

[DXMachina]

No matey I'm used to proper high speed trains

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kuboki/4112497562/

Its Duck Vader! Sweet jesus that thing is ugly

 

[bronzeonion]

That's fair enough but I'm afraid you'll always be in the minority in terms of public opinion. With respect to the actual design I wonder whether our loading gauge will often be a determining factor when considering the design of a train.

I think it will be, as even the Desiro City doesnt look too ridiculous
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Its Duck Vader! Sweet jesus that thing is ugly

It's brilliant!

 

[IKBrunel]

As far as I'm concerned anything that stops me being the victim of a terrorist attack has to be a good thing.

Really?
Even without the passports & security you would still need to buy a named ticket with a reserved seat.
the tube is still a much higher risk target for example, easy to slip in & (maybe) out with a hoodie on.

Despite all the media hype, the risk of terrorist attacks on British mainland is way lower than it was in the 80s when the PIRA were active.

If so many people are inconvenienced because of a very small terrorist risk I have to ask, have we already lost the very freedoms we stand for.

I think random checking of passports and bags ( as per customs channel) would make a big reduction in passenger hassle for minimal reduction in risk.

Maybe you could reduce hassle in E* terminals by doing pre-screening of passengers as per US immigration. Or allow security personnel to see/screen names on tickets as they go through barriers & check people who are flagged on police DB. These approaches might actually reduce risk MORE than the current approach.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Really?
Even without the passports & security you would still need to buy a named ticket with a reserved seat.
the tube is still a much higher risk target for example, easy to slip in & (maybe) out with a hoodie on.

Despite all the media hype, the risk of terrorist attacks on British mainland is way lower than it was in the 80s when the PIRA were active.

If so many people are inconvenienced because of a very small terrorist risk I have to ask, have we already lost the very freedoms we stand for.

As a Londoner of 22 years I'm very much aware of the threat that terrorists pose to the Tube. However it's not practical to do anything more to protect the Tube from a terrorist attack. However, that doesn't mean that we should seek to reduce security measures on other rail services which have no discernable benefit and only increase the risks.

Which freedoms are you referring to? The freedom to be blown up? It's worth mentioning here that the security checks at St Pancras are no more of an inconvenience than they are at say Heathrow so what’s the problem? Are you too impatient to queue? Would you rather be killed?

 

[NotATrainspott]

As a Londoner of 22 years I'm very much aware of the threat that terrorists pose to the Tube. However it's not practical to do anything more to protect the Tube from a terrorist attack. However, that doesn't mean that we should seek to reduce security measures on other rail services which have no discernable benefit and only increase the risks.

Which freedoms are you referring to? The freedom to be blown up? It's worth mentioning here that the security checks at St Pancras are no more of an inconvenience than they are at say Heathrow so what’s the problem? Are you too impatient to queue? Would you rather be killed?

There is little, if any, fundamental difference between Eurostar and any other InterCity train service. If the passport checks were not there, I doubt that there would be any security checks either, just since it is then not possible to smuggle contraband between the CTA and Schengen. As with airports, any self-respecting terrorist would easily be able to get around security as it stands today - do you really think they passport check and scan all the low-paid, outsourced cleaners which most likely clean the secure areas of the stations and the trains?

There is no real security provided on Eurostar at the moment, which hasn't been a problem because it is not going to be a target. Terrorists try to kill as many people in as much of a media frenzy as they can - how is this at all possible on Eurostar? The blast forces of any explosion dissipate with the square of distance from it, and all tunnels on HS1 are far larger than any other on the network. The Eurostar services are by far the least densely packed trains on the whole network, so any explosion wouldn't directly affect anywhere near the same number of people as one on the 7/7 tube trains. Apart from the stations, none of the network on Eurostar is easy for the public and media to access, so there wouldn't be the same kind of immediate media reaction which terrorists crave. Then remains the fact that for the entirety of HS1, the Chunnel, and the LGV Nord there is no comprehensive security checking in place. As a result, the security can only protect Eurostar services alone, which for the reasons I said above would not be particularly good targets when simply detonating in the insecure areas of the Kings' Cross-St Pancras complex would do far more damage. As the Volgograd bombings showed, it doesn't matter if you scan people before they get on trains if you clump everyone together before security into one large target-able mass.

 

[RichmondCommu]

There is little, if any, fundamental difference between Eurostar and any other InterCity train service. If the passport checks were not there, I doubt that there would be any security checks either, just since it is then not possible to smuggle contraband between the CTA and Schengen. As with airports, any self-respecting terrorist would easily be able to get around security as it stands today - do you really think they passport check and scan all the low-paid, outsourced cleaners which most likely clean the secure areas of the stations and the trains?

There is no real security provided on Eurostar at the moment, which hasn't been a problem because it is not going to be a target. Terrorists try to kill as many people in as much of a media frenzy as they can - how is this at all possible on Eurostar? The blast forces of any explosion dissipate with the square of distance from it, and all tunnels on HS1 are far larger than any other on the network. The Eurostar services are by far the least densely packed trains on the whole network, so any explosion wouldn't directly affect anywhere near the same number of people as one on the 7/7 tube trains. Apart from the stations, none of the network on Eurostar is easy for the public and media to access, so there wouldn't be the same kind of immediate media reaction which terrorists crave. Then remains the fact that for the entirety of HS1, the Chunnel, and the LGV Nord there is no comprehensive security checking in place. As a result, the security can only protect Eurostar services alone, which for the reasons I said above would not be particularly good targets when simply detonating in the insecure areas of the Kings' Cross-St Pancras complex would do far more damage. As the Volgograd bombings showed, it doesn't matter if you scan people before they get on trains if you clump everyone together before security into one large target-able mass.

I'm sorry but your missing the point here. Eurostar services would be considered to be a high profile target hence the extra security. I really don't understand why people have issues with the security arrangements at St Pancras. Why is it such a problem?

 

[NotATrainspott]

I'm sorry but your missing the point here. Eurostar services would be considered to be a high profile target hence the extra security. I really don't understand why people have issues with the security arrangements at St Pancras. Why is it such a problem?

Eurostar services might be 'high profile' in that they do something slightly special, i.e. linking two cities by a special undersea tunnel, but for a terrorist there are much better targets which would serve their aims better. The same logic would apply to other links such as the train service over the Oresund Bridge between Denmark and Sweden, which has no security at all to the best of my knowledge. The security arrangements make journeys take longer and provide yet another hurdle for NoL services on classic lines or HS2. If there is no insistence on security checks, then onboard passport checking becomes less infeasible which would then make NoL services far easier to manage. Having security for Eurostar unquestionably makes things worse for travellers and when it is complete theatre it then provides no benefits, so what's the point? Unlike a plane, there isn't any ability to use the train as a weapon so non-explosives effectively do nothing.

 

[starrymarkb]

As an example of pointless security I recently traveled back from Geneva. As usual any knives and other bladed items would be confiscated at Security. Then once past security there was a gift shop, selling Swiss Army Knives. The display even warned you not to buy if you were transiting somewhere as security at the transfer airport would confiscate it.

 

[themiller]

I recently travelled to Paris and back via Eurostar. I checked on their website and found that knives were prohibited however in 1997 when I travelled through the tunnel, I was allowed on the train with a Swiss Army penknife as long as it was in my rucksack. I, therefore checked at the Eurostar information at St Pancras and was told that as long as the blade was less than 3" long and was not lockable, it would be OK! As the info desk was shut and the answer was given through the closed door after the information lady consulted a policeman in the office, I didn't pursue it, but there seems to be some confusion even among the people who should know. You pays your money and you takes your chance.