Class 379 updates (all are OFF LEASE)

[RailWonderer]

But it’s not an assumption as there are several sources within GTR as well as documents suggesting the transfer - an example of an assumption would be “the 379s will be replacing the EMR 360s as they’re now unsuitable for the Corby route”…

Implying something does tend to mean more than speculation. That said, nobody has said with confidence that 379s are transferring over, it just makes the most sense.
Some higher up who knows exactly what is happening and knows about these forums must be laughing, as this has gone on for 8 pages now. They're just a run of the mill Electrostar with a one of the best first class areas on any train on the rails today.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Implying something does tend to mean more than speculation. That said, nobody has said with confidence that 379s are transferring over, it just makes the most sense.
Some higher up who knows exactly what is happening and knows about these forums must be laughing, as this has gone on for 8 pages now. They're just a run of the mill Electrostar with a one of the best first class areas on any train on the rails today.

I don't think that most higher up people in the industry are scrolling through a page on a Rail Forum about Class 379's, there will be a couple who will, but most will defintley not be.

 

[43102EMR]

Implying something does tend to mean more than speculation. That said, nobody has said with confidence that 379s are transferring over, it just makes the most sense.
Some higher up who knows exactly what is happening and knows about these forums must be laughing, as this has gone on for 8 pages now. They're just a run of the mill Electrostar with a one of the best first class areas on any train on the rails today.

The same could be said about every other thread in existence on this site if that’s the case…

 

[Bald Rick]

Some higher up who knows exactly what is happening and knows about these forums must be laughing, as this has gone on for 8 pages now. They're just a run of the mill Electrostar with a one of the best first class areas on any train on the rails today.

I must admit to having chuckled a little for the last hundred posts or so.

 

[Fincra5]

At the end of the day.. its all down to the DfT

 

[bramling]

At the end of the day.. its all down to the DfT

Indeed; the DFT who have done such a wonderful job with rolling stock over the last few years…

 

[Class15]

Indeed; the DFT who have done such a wonderful job with rolling stock over the last few years…

Class 365s: Indeed

 

[bramling]

Class 365s: Indeed

That’s just the thin end of an increasingly thickening wedge. One can add the 442s and 707s for a start, 350/2s quite probably, and it remains to be seen how the 379s pan out. We may well soon be adding the 769s to the list of debacles.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

No one is/was saying they are.
The original position on 387/1s was owned by Porterbrook (still are) leased to Southern and sub-leased to FCC and later the Govia TL+ GN successor entity for ~9 months before Southern was rolled into GTR. The original lease period was till later this year.
In a similar way the 25x SE 377/5 and /1 are owned by Porterbrook, leased by Southern (pre GTR) and subleased to SE.

There is plenty of sub-leased stock on the network including SE subleasing some 707s back to SWR.



Agreed

It is but GTR may have been a bit optimistic in terms of estimating likely demand reduction and what they could get away with it terms of service level and train lengths leaving a capacity gap if all the old stock is removed. Demand level recovery on GTR and into large urban areas more generally (nationally) has shown a greater recovery in shorter distance commuting than longer which is problematic for the cunning plan (and bad for industry subsidy requirements).

There is also the need to fit ETCS immenently and an interior refurb was progress will naturally be slower than wished for.

Which is a second good reason apart from Akiem potentially stalling on leasing cost reductions - a good period off lease attracting storage costs helps focus minds. Akiem are more realistic than Macquarie were.

Newer stock needs less maintenance and down time than the 313s/455s hence GTR will be anticipating maintenance cost reductions and fewer new units replacing those leaving.

Well. If something goes wrong and GN doesn't get the 379's. They could go after the 350/2's which is coming off lease from London Northwestern railway and owned by porterbrook.

 

[Fincra5]

That’s just the thin end of an increasingly thickening wedge. One can add the 442s and 707s for a start, 350/2s quite probably, and it remains to be seen how the 379s pan out. We may well soon be adding the 769s to the list of debacles.

What's wrong with the 707s? 350/2s is WMR beating the Leasing Company. And 379s also have a higher leasing cost then realistic.

I do agree though the DfT do make some bizzare decisions with rolling stock.

 

[bramling]

What's wrong with the 707s? 350/2s is WMR beating the Leasing Company. And 379s also have a higher leasing cost then realistic.

I do agree though the DfT do make some bizzare decisions with rolling stock.

In the case of the 707s, up for replacement before they’d even entered service, and now rather clumsily deployed on Southeastern as a microfleet.

As for the 350/2s, it will be interesting to see where they do get redeployed, but at the minute it’s hard to envisage where.

 

[Wivenswold]

I can't believe the withdrawal of a class in its own thread gets a brief mention without much comment and then it's back to arguing over whether or not a possible plan a few years ago may still go ahead.


As a quick aside, I was told by a railwayman that the new Class 720s wouldn't have toilets a few years ago and I had to correct him. Having worked on the railway I can confirm that depots and canteen walls hear all manner of rumours about rolling stock, working conditions, timetable/roster changes, new staff, old staff.....the list goes on.

 

[ashkeba]

There's no such thing as leased to Southern, as Southern is not a separate company. It's a trading name of Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd., so all "Southern", "Gatwick Express", "Thameslink" and "Great Northern" trains are leased to GTR. As an employee, I'd have thought you'd be aware of this based on what your payslip says?

Southern Railway Ltd and New Southern Railway Ltd are still active Govia company registrations. I do not know if they are used for anything or if everything goes through GTR Ltd but Southern Railway Ltd definitely still exists as a separate company if they ever want it.

 

[physics34]

If leasing costs are the problem the GTR could do worse than leasing the newer SWT re tractioned 455s and scrapping the current fleet

 

[Class 466]

Th

If leasing costs are the problem the GTR could do worse than leasing the newer SWT re tractioned 455s and scrapping the current fleet

theres also the cheaper option of not leasing any 455s at all, but that’s for a separate thread and isn’t related to 379s.

 

[Jturner98]

If leasing costs are the problem the GTR could do worse than leasing the newer SWT re tractioned 455s and scrapping the current fleet

As far as I know regarding the SWR 455s they are coming to the end of their mileage and will need overhauls to keep them going. The southern units are having their overhauls at the moment. So if GTR were to take any SWR units this would have to be taken into account. Personally I can’t see that happening. The SWR units will be heading on a one way trip to the scrapyard in my opinion

 

[Class 170101]

If leasing costs are the problem the GTR could do worse than leasing the newer SWT re tractioned 455s and scrapping the current fleet

Except Class 455s are 3rd Rail operated only and Class 379s operate only from 25KV ac overhead supply only unless you are suggesting a fleet shuffle around.

theres also the cheaper option of not leasing any 455s at all, but that’s for a separate thread and isn’t related to 379s.

Even cheaper still don't lease either fleet.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

In the case of the 707s, up for replacement before they’d even entered service, and now rather clumsily deployed on Southeastern as a microfleet.

They were a microfleet at Wimbledon

As for the 350/2s, it will be interesting to see where they do get redeployed, but at the minute it’s hard to envisage where.

Should have just stuck the shoes back on them and sent them to SWR rather than the current fiasco thats unfolding.

Southern Railway Ltd and New Southern Railway Ltd are still active Govia company registrations. I do not know if they are used for anything or if everything goes through GTR Ltd but Southern Railway Ltd definitely still exists as a separate company if they ever want it.

Neither are responsible for the current franchise.

If leasing costs are the problem the GTR could do worse than leasing the newer SWT re tractioned 455s and scrapping the current fleet

Suspect they are more expensive than Southerns to recover the cost of the retractioning

 

[physics34]

Except Class 455s are 3rd Rail operated only and Class 379s operate only from 25KV ac overhead supply only unless you are suggesting a fleet shuffle around.

Even cheaper still don't lease either fleet.

If they arent going to shuffle the 379s and 387s around i was suggesting southern scrap their 1981 class 455s and replace with SWRs 1985 class 455s.

 

[43096]

Should have just stuck the shoes back on them and sent them to SWR rather than the current fiasco thats unfolding.

The 350/2s have always been configured for 25kV AC only as far as I know - are you thinking of the 350/1s?

 

[D365]

We may well soon be adding the 769s to the list of debacles.

769s is Porterbrook's overreaching. Although it will be very interesting to see how the parcels conversion unfolds.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a reminder that the topic of this thread is Class 379’s departure from Greater Anglia.
If anyone wants to discuss anything else they are welcome to start a new thread.

thanks

 

[jopsuk]

Implying something does tend to mean more than speculation. That said, nobody has said with confidence that 379s are transferring over, it just makes the most sense.
Some higher up who knows exactly what is happening and knows about these forums must be laughing, as this has gone on for 8 pages now. They're just a run of the mill Electrostar with a one of the best first class areas on any train on the rails today.

and to any potential future user they're almost certainly just a run of the mill electrostar that needs a full interior refit to make them suitable for the services they want to run- I really doubt that 1st will survive

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm just waiting for a reliable article to be published confirming their withdrawal, as although GA have confirmed they're no longer to be used, it always causes me great irritation to see the Greater Anglia and Class 379 Wikipedia pages merrily state that all thirty units are cheerfully thundering up and down West Anglia - and the charming regular authoritarians that patrol the Wiki pages would rather continue to show incorrect information than accept a source not up to their standards.

 

[Railperf]

No need to wait ait for any artuclrs

I'm just waiting for a reliable article to be published confirming their withdrawal, as although GA have confirmed they're no longer to be used, it always causes me great irritation to see the Greater Anglia and Class 379 Wikipedia pages merrily state that all thirty units are cheerfully thundering up and down West Anglia - and the charming regular authoritarians that patrol the Wiki pages would rather continue to show incorrect information than accept a source not up to their standards.

There are no articles needed. GA are putting out an enhanced service today in West Anglia requiring only 8 of 11 'available' Class 317's and the remainder are 5-car Class 720s. Looks like a fee more 321's out on peak GE services - plus a few 5-car vice 10-car Class 720s. Unless there becomes a catastrophic shortage of stock, i don't see any reason for the 379's being needed now. Lsst week it was reported thst many were reported non serviceable - so possibly have run out of mileage in betwren maintenance visits or exams?

 

[Domh245]

I'm just waiting for a reliable article to be published confirming their withdrawal, as although GA have confirmed they're no longer to be used, it always causes me great irritation to see the Greater Anglia and Class 379 Wikipedia pages merrily state that all thirty units are cheerfully thundering up and down West Anglia - and the charming regular authoritarians that patrol the Wiki pages would rather continue to show incorrect information than accept a source not up to their standards.

Wikipedia isn't designed to be a particularly fast source of news, only an accurate one..

 

[Domk]

There is one diagram cancelled throughout this week on the Bishop - Stratford - Meridian route due to “short notice timetable change”

 

[CDM]

There are no articles needed. GA are putting out an enhanced service today in West Anglia requiring only 8 of 11 'available' Class 317's and the remainder are 5-car Class 720s.

There are more than 11 Class 317's available with GA. There are no Class 379's in traffic today, it's all Class 720 or Class 317 on West Anglia.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No need to wait ait for any artuclrs

There are no articles needed. GA are putting out an enhanced service today in West Anglia requiring only 8 of 11 'available' Class 317's and the remainder are 5-car Class 720s. Looks like a fee more 321's out on peak GE services - plus a few 5-car vice 10-car Class 720s. Unless there becomes a catastrophic shortage of stock, i don't see any reason for the 379's being needed now. Lsst week it was reported thst many were reported non serviceable - so possibly have run out of mileage in betwren maintenance visits or exams?

I know, and GA have confirmed they’re withdrawn, but until an article is published the stubborn “regulars” on Wikipedia won’t let the Wiki page be changed to show them as withdrawn. They’d rather the page be wrong than accept a tweet as a source.

 

[Class 466]

I know, and GA have confirmed they’re withdrawn, but until an article is published the stubborn “regulars” on Wikipedia won’t let the Wiki page be changed to show them as withdrawn. They’d rather the page be wrong than accept a tweet as a source.

I’ll never forget the time I used a photo of a train in a new livery, in service that I’d taken and put it on the actual wiki page for that unit and they still refused to accept that as evidence of it transferring. “A photo or video isn’t a reliable source”

So I expect the 379s will be in service with the next operator for over a year before they accept the change onto Wikipedia.