GrimShady
Established Member
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- 13 Dec 2016
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What sort of state are these units in bodywork/structure wise?
The Portsmouth Direct is supposed to increase to 4tph throughout (at present 2tph semi-fast and 1tph stopper, the 4th tph from Waterloo terminates at Haslemere). Plus I think some 450s are due to move to strengthen other services, with the 442s intended to take over all the semi-fasts. I'm not sure how that will be affected by the deferral of the new timetable though, maybe the 442s will come in but running the existing timetable?I'm really confused, what will the 442s be replacing? it seems like they're an extra are they really needed?
The Portsmouth Direct is supposed to increase to 4tph throughout (at present 2tph semi-fast and 1tph stopper, the 4th tph from Waterloo terminates at Haslemere). Plus I think some 450s are due to move to strengthen other services, with the 442s intended to take over all the semi-fasts. I'm not sure how that will be affected by the deferral of the new timetable though, maybe the 442s will come in but running the existing timetable?
There’s 34 extra standard class in a 444 according to the franchise agreement though.... Personally I’d be happier if the 444s just had the carpets and the re-trim, but hey ho, those 12 extra standard class seats are well worthy getting rid of the guards office, the buffet and a cycle bay.
There’s 34 extra standard class in a 444 according to the franchise agreement though.
I suspect it is “closure by stealth”: downgrade the facility so people don’t think it is worth the extra, so less users = not enough demand for its use, we’ll withdraw it.Its the sham 1st (350/1 style) that's the real scandal. Should just have the guts to bin it off entirely.
There’s 34 extra standard class in a 444 according to the franchise agreement though.
Yes, and as well as no windows it’s right outside the bog. Definitely seems pretty stupid.That is true. I’d not taken into account the changes in first class resulting in extra standard. Still don’t think taking out a bike space for 4 seats and a table with no windows is wise though.
I suspect it is “closure by stealth”: downgrade the facility so people don’t think it is worth the extra, so less users = not enough demand for its use, we’ll withdraw it.
Yes, and as well as no windows it’s right outside the bog. Definitely seems pretty stupid.
I wondered about that. Could it possibly just be four tip up seats along the wall?The space doesn't seem to me to be wide enough for 4 seats anyway, the small bog on a Class 444 is wider than a 350 (where you do have a bay of 4 opposite the bog) and the train is narrower.
I wondered about that. Could it possibly just be four tip up seats along the wall?
The other thing is there are still 3 hour journeys down to Weymouth. If that doesn’t deserve some sort of first class how would a similar time journey removal of first affect other routes?I'm not sure that's true, the south WCML has had sham 1st for over 10 years now. Only on the Class 319s (2+1) is it worth the money.
The other thing is there are still 3 hour journeys down to Weymouth. If that doesn’t deserve some sort of first class how would a similar time journey removal of first affect other routes?
Especially given that the bike spaces always seem well used on 444s at present.Yes, and as well as no windows it’s right outside the bog. Definitely seems pretty stupid.
I've seen the artists impressions, it is definitely 4 seats with a table. Perhaps there will be no arm rests to get it to fit?I wondered about that. Could it possibly just be four tip up seats along the wall?
Especially given that the bike spaces always seem well used on 444s at present.
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I've seen the artists impressions, it is definitely 4 seats with a table. Perhaps there will be no arm rests to get it to fit?
I'm not sure that's true, the south WCML has had sham 1st for over 10 years now. Only on the Class 319s (2+1) is it worth the money.
*A theory* Probably most of the users will pay extra for 1st class on the LNWR 350s do it for the better chance of a seat during the peaks (like with Southern/South Eastern etc).
Given First Class capacity is being reduced too, I am not convinced it will guarantee you a seat.Likewise I can see some commuters still paying extra for the reduced 2+2 seating on the 444s, just for the better chance of a seat from Winchester.
Well do take into consideration like the seats are going from 2x1 to 2x2 so even though they cutting down the size of first they not necessarily reducing the seat numbers for sure.Given First Class capacity is being reduced too, I am not convinced it will guarantee you a seat.
Is it really in primer, or is it the base coat which will be vinyled over.To drift back to 442s - units 04 and 06 on the 5Q50 Bournemouth T&RSMD to Totton today. Seen at Christchurch. I think it was 04 at the front in tatty GATEX livery and 06 at the rear in a rather horrid greyish primer. Could have been vv.
I would hope, if it is the primer, that the base coat will follow and be applied in a rather more professional manner!I have seen the 442s In the dull grey primer too, as the train goes past Eastleigh works the depot windows have been left open and you can see in.
Kudos for calling them semi fast, the additions of Petersfield and now Godalming over the years is quite frustrating.
The plan is to introduce the 442s imminently to allow multiple 444s to be taken off track for their refurbishment and overhaul. Personally I’d be happier if the 444s just had the carpets and the re-trim, but hey ho, those 12 extra standard class seats are well worthy getting rid of the guards office, the buffet and a cycle bay.
What is the purpose of the word 'like' in the above statement? Just curious.Well do take into consideration like the seats are going from 2x1 to 2x2 so even though they cutting down the size of first they not necessarily reducing the seat numbers for sure.
The Portsmouth direct gets upgraded whilst the Portsmouth to Cardiff gets downgradedNo, the 442s will be here for the duration of the franchise. Originally they were meant to run on the faster Portsmouth services which then meant other stock could be cascaded to provide the extra trains needed for the new timetable and to strengthen other parts of the network (such as all Weymouth services being 10 coaches east of Bournemouth). However with that timetable being shelved it means they can introduce the 442s which means 444s can be taken away to be refurbished. Eventually the intention is to run the enhanced timetable which will need extra units.