Class 455

[A-driver]

I remember a southern driver arguing with control a while ago as he was on a diagram that joins 2 456s to a 455 at London bridge for an evening rush hour service. When he got there there were 2 456s in the platform instead of a 455. He rang control who said it was due to a train fault but was ok to run. He refused and they had no idea 456s were longer than 455s due to the coupling. After much arguing and his refusal to run it they allowed him to run the service as a 6 instead of an 8.

 

[Surreyman]

Rare but not unknown to have 12 455 but usually on ecs moves. As stated its because they normally work on 8 car platform lines that its not seen. Same as people always said 12 car Subs weren't allowed - they were but not normally seen. I believe many years ago seaside specials often used 12 Sub's. Another fallacy was that 4 REP's couldn't work with another emu due to line current restrictions - they could work with a 2 car emu and I saw one with a 2 Hap once.



Not all suburban trains will automatically be 10 car services. Until Platforms 1 to 4 at Waterloo are extended full 10 car operation wouldn't be possible anyway, even if stock was available. Initial services will be the busiest ones, and also those which currently use P5 and above at WAT - such as the 07.17 & 08.07 Guildford - WAT and 18.48 WAT - GLD via Cobham which are fast from/to Surbiton. The inital plans in Modern Rlys also showed 2 new services from Raynes Pk to WAT at 07.22 & 09.22 I believe, and these would use P5+ at WAT. I have heard more on this but can't divulge publicly.



1 - single units
2 - not sure
3 - 456's will be std only as now.

The 458/5's will internally be like 455's with 2+2 seating, std class only. The 450 HC's will revert to as delivered internally and take over Reading line services workings amongst others.

The intended formation of the 10 car trains is 455+455+456, but whether the 456 will be London or Country end usually hasn't been decided as yet. Also personally I doubt we'll see 455 + 3 x 456 as a 456 is very slightly longer than half a 455. Even 1 x 455 & 2 x 456 would be too long for some platforms on SWT currently. Interesting times ahead.

The Colonel

The Colonel

Surely the suburban platform lengthening (to 10 cars) currently underway is specified for the longest (10car) train combination (subject to physical construction constraints)?
Agree 3 x 456 seems very unlikely.
My original post was to try and tease out possible medium/longer term solutions to a 10 car SWT suburban railway.
I read a proposal for possible future Thameslink routes which would seem to indicate some of Southerns 455 fleet could become surplus.
Of course in a perfect world we would be looking at an all 12 car railway with new units.

 

[Helvellyn]

The inital plans in Modern Rlys also showed 2 new services from Raynes Pk to WAT at 07.22 & 09.22 I believe, and these would use P5+ at WAT.

The intended formation of the 10 car trains is 455+455+456, but whether the 456 will be London or Country end usually hasn't been decided as yet. Also personally I doubt we'll see 455 + 3 x 456 as a 456 is very slightly longer than half a 455. Even 1 x 455 & 2 x 456 would be too long for some platforms on SWT currently. Interesting times ahead.

We've been told the current plan is for the new Raynes Park peak busting services to be 4x456!

 

[Manchester77]

Hi does anyone have any photos of 455808's interior southern's first refurbished unit? Thank you

 

[tsr]

Southern are DOO on those services.

Southern's are DOO.

That's not entirely true!

The Wandsworth Road to Kensington Olympia Parliamentary train will sometimes be formed of a 455 unit and will have a guard.

I have seen this for myself and spoken to one of the guards!

/pedantry

 

[TEW]

Similarly 455s running peak hour services to Horsham will have a guard between Dorking and Horsham.

 

[jopsuk]

the question though was about where the guard goes in multiple 455/456 formations where is no corridor connector. I'd gathered that SWT position the guard in the front cab of the rear unit so that they have easy access to both units (as they have a connection, which unlike 317s* is not publicly accessible). So I was curious as to where SWT will suggest/require the guard to be in a mixed 455/456 formation. Uniquely SWT's entire current fleet has corridor connections between units.


*which operate DOO

 

[BestWestern]

the question though was about where the guard goes in multiple 455/456 formations where is no corridor connector. I'd gathered that SWT position the guard in the front cab of the rear unit so that they have easy access to both units (as they have a connection, which unlike 317s* is not publicly accessible). So I was curious as to where SWT will suggest/require the guard to be in a mixed 455/456 formation. Uniquely SWT's entire current fleet has corridor connections between units.


*which operate DOO

I would imagine that they would be given free reign to 'float' and be in whichever part of the train they wish. As they will presumably be only Non-Commercial Guards, there may well be an emphasis on them patrolling both portions of the train during the journey; SWT like to try and ensure that their Guards are available to the passengers.

 

[swt_passenger]

Surely the suburban platform lengthening (to 10 cars) currently underway is specified for the longest (10car) train combination (subject to physical construction constraints).

Yes, the CP4 enhancement milestones (Sept 2012 update) emphasise that exact point. All main line side suburban platforms will be extended, as SDO is not possible on any of the intended 455/456 combinations.

As these dates show, most of the work is planned to be done in the next calendar year, start date was December 2012 unless shown differently:

Raynes Park to Dorking (except Boxhill & Westhumble, Leatherhead and Ashtead) complete December 2013

Kingston Loop and Shepperton Branch complete December 2013

Hampton Court Branch complete December 2013

Guildford via Woking commences Apr 2013 complete December 2013

Guildford via Cobham commences April 2013 complete December 2013

Guildford via Leatherhead complete December 2013

Chessington Branch complete December 2013

Details are in Southern train lengthening package 7 if anyone wants to look it up.