The issue is the company ordered these with the goal of full DOO pre covid. Forgetting PTI risks, accessibility requirements and cheap on train equipment.
I imagine they would aswell if the company had gone against the agreement and not followed it
Are you having a laugh? If anything the unions on the continent make us look relatively tame.
The industry has nearly 40 years of DOO working that by now there must be a set of agreed technical standards that the trains and infrastructure have to comply with to allow it to be implemented. Why SWR continue to try and do their own thing is beyond me.
pretty sure it was all to do with ABDO and making sure whether it is 2 5s or a single 10, its the exact same length.
More or less the same as on a 455? Unless I’m missing something.
Given rightly or wrongly that the industry’s kicked most of its DCO expansion plans into the long grass in recent years the lack of progress in the areas you highlight is hardly surprising.
Aside from the DOO/DCO debacle, the cab sizing has been a hot topic, having been constrained by a requirement to standardise door positions between 2x5 car and 10 car trains. So, at the risk of taking this into speculative territory - what could have been done differently by ordering from a different supplier?
It was mentioned a lot of times at the beginning of the thread, but Desiro Cities didn’t meet the franchise requirement at the time as they couldn’t accommodate a theoretical number of standing passengers.
On a fixed 10 car there would be no safe refuge for the guard during crush loading and still be able to despatch from a sensible position.
Surely they're the same Cameras that are fitted to 710s and 720s... which both operated DOO.
I'm not quite sure what the deal is with the cameras but I have been led to believe during testing is that the camera mounts suffer from a high amount of water ingress when it rains and in the cab only the slightest amount of sunlight will render the monitors useless.
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Is this testing by running on Network Rail after a substantial number of units have been built? Don't industrial designers test such features on a few prototypes before a production line starts rolling?As with post #6553, a word I've been given that describes them is s*%t. If they were confident in the cameras and their stability there wouldn't be a whole essay worth of degraded working possibilities.
Different stock, different route and different equipment. The specifications and requirements for new DOO trains seem to change with each generation of train so what was acceptable on one scheme does not necessarily translate to another.
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Given the costs of these machines as well, surely there is a prototype stage in development beforehand. Most serious industrial design always includes not just one but a number of prototypes.
It's possibly a bit academic at this late stage, but could sunlight shields be added to solve this problem?
In ignorance I assume that these are external view cameras and not, if they have any, internal security cameras?
And to think decades ago Derby produced trains with cameras and onboard monitors - 375s and 377s. Then it takes over 4 years to discover this later creation from Derby - the 701s are no good in the same area. And do all these other similar trains - 710s and 720s - have issues.
350/4s more likely to be the last stock without in cab monitors, but maybe you are only thinking about Bombardier units?
That's odd, because the first 377s were originally classified 375 and, as far as a I recall, were built at the same time
Buses are increasingly moving over to cameras with screens in the cab replacing traditional external mirrors. The cameras look very similar to those on train exteriors.
I don't know the answer, but could it be something to do with the relative lengths? A typical bus is about 12 metres long and has only two doors, one of them right next to the driver. A single railway carriage is 20-23 metres, so you would need between sixteen and twenty cameras to get the same clarity over the entire length of a 10-car train (essentially one per door). And trying to monitor twenty screens at once would not be easy.
Hasn’t happened so far in mainstream rail industry. Most DCO schemes proposed a few years ago have been kicked into the long grass, alongside ticket office closures & T&C changes that let to the recent national RMT dispute.
There are iirc enough cameras BUT it then leads to the need to find space in the cab for a lot more monitors if the monitor is the same size as that on a bus. But I feel that is no worse than a guard looking up and down a 12 carriage train with their own eyeballs especially if the platform is not straight.
And actually you see how much more efficient they are than guard operated - stops at stations for just a few seconds sometimes and then moves on - has allowed them to tighten up the timetable no end
