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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

Snow1964

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Yes some station platforms have 8-10 stop markers but some station platforms have different markers for 8 and 10 coach formations.
It would not be difficult to move the 8car markers to same pole as 10car. Unless 450 or 458s are booked to call at that platform, the 8car markers will be obsolete when 455s go.

Last time I was there very few (if any) had 5car markers, so could just as easily argue mods are needed to let the 5car units operate.
 
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norbitonflyer

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Luckily when they extended platforms to 10 car lengths about 10 years ago, they stuck the 8 and 10 car stop boards on the same post, so little chance of that happening.
.....which is customer-hostile, and potentially dangerous, at stations where the entrance is at the rear end of the platform (eg Raynes park and Kingston down direction, New Malden, Wimbledon, Earlsfield and Strawberry Hill up direction, as
- there are two carriage lengths between the entrance and the rear of the train,
- people entering and leaving have to push past each other next to a three-foot drop,
- the majority of the train is not under the awning and,
- for down trains, passengers for those stations all try to squeeze into the rear carriage (always the busiest anyway) in order to be first in the queue for the barriers when leaving the station
- visually impaired people can't find the train because it has not stopped in the logical place - by the entrance.

I have even seen people miss trains at Kingston because from the top of the steps the rear of the train can't be seen.

All because drivers apparently aren't trusted to remember what sort of stock they are driving.
 

TEW

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It would not be difficult to move the 8car markers to same pole as 10car. Unless 450 or 458s are booked to call at that platform, the 8car markers will be obsolete when 455s go.

Last time I was there very few (if any) had 5car markers, so could just as easily argue mods are needed to let the 5car units operate.
Most stations have 4-6 car markers.

The few locations on the Suburban network which still have separate 8 and 10 car markers are for operational reasons.
 

Goldfish62

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.....which is customer-hostile, and potentially dangerous, at stations where the entrance is at the rear end of the platform (eg Raynes park and Kingston down direction, New Malden, Wimbledon, Earlsfield and Strawberry Hill up direction, as
- there are two carriage lengths between the entrance and the rear of the train,
- people entering and leaving have to push past each other next to a three-foot drop,
- the majority of the train is not under the awning and,
- for down trains, passengers for those stations all try to squeeze into the rear carriage (always the busiest anyway) in order to be first in the queue for the barriers when leaving the station
- visually impaired people can't find the train because it has not stopped in the logical place - by the entrance.

I have even seen people miss trains at Kingston because from the top of the steps the rear of the train can't be seen.

All because drivers apparently aren't trusted to remember what sort of stock they are driving.
Um... you'll find exactly the same across the whole railway network.
 

Goldfish62

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It is a recent change though -maybe six or seven years - Kingston certainly used to have separate 8 and 10 car stop marks so that the rear of the train was always next to the exit.
The point about short trains stopping right down the platform - it's been happening since DOO was introduced in the mid-80s.

Don't know whether it's still the case, but at Grantham a couple of years ago I noticed that whereas 5-coach Hull Trains 800s stopped midway along the platform, the LNER 5-car 800s were stopping right at the far end of the platform.

Anyway, we're going OT here.

Back to the 701s...
 

73128

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That’s definitely not how the passenger allo
031 has only been in passenger service once, (in October), and 028 hasn't been seen since February. But 017 did briefly come out to play today.
701031 is in service today on the Windsor route. Sitting in it right now approaching Clapham Junction (up).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

031 in service on 2J92 this morning according to RTT
Maybe they heard us after all :lol:
and again today, working 2U28 right now.
 
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swtrains

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Testing today:

CANCELLED - 5T91 - Clapham Yard - Waterloo - normal.
CANCELLED - 5T92 - Waterloo - Waterloo - Goes to Chessington South, then to Wimbledon, before reversing and going back to Chessington South, then heads back to Waterloo.
5T93 - Waterloo - Clapham Yard - Goes to Epsom, then Epsom Down Sidings and repeats 3 more times, before heading back to the Yard. Unclear how many times this happened from RTT as it cut off after the first reverse.

 

Malcolmffc

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A strange but very encouraging sight at Waterloo tonight seeing hardly any 455s around in the evening peak.
 

swr444

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Hearing that driver training is now 6 days rather than 10, due to drivers not having to close the doors anymore. This should hopefully speed things up
 

Snow1964

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Hearing that driver training is now 6 days rather than 10, due to drivers not having to close the doors anymore. This should hopefully speed things up
Are you saying it took 4 days to learn how to close doors ?

I wonder if they take 4 days to learn how close a door when they use a toilet cubicle, or did they just learn it without 4 days of being shown all the different variations in different buildings.
 

Lockwood

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What is involved in door closing training? (I know it is going to be more than just "Look at monitor/mirror, press button, go")

I'm curious how that module being removed allows for 4 days being trimmed, rather than 1 or 2?

Update: to clarify tone, I am genuinely curious what the scope of that training is to create such a large supervised qualification time, rather than just going "omg long time, wow"
 

Nicholas Lewis

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And driver open/guard close is probably the best way when it comes to doing the doors. Would mean the guard can do more customer facing duties (if they wanted to).

Especially if the driver stops in the wrong place and opens all the doors it will be them having the chat with no biscuits rather than the guard when they fail to spot that the driver of a 10 coach set has pulled up at the 8 coach mark and releases the doors without seeing the rear coach is off the platform.
Just having door release by drivers will do more than anything else to improve station dwell times giving the ceremony of the doors performed by guards now (yes i know its FSWR procedure).
 

Carlisle

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Hearing that driver training is now 6 days rather than 10, due to drivers not having to close the doors anymore. This should hopefully speed things up
A poor & short sighted decision by those in charge, particularly as the time, money & effort invested in obtaining the agreements, hardware, training & additional staff flexibility all appear to have been wasted.
 
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swr444

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I presume they have to do a certain amount of stops to pass the training and it depends how many stops they can get in one day. then there's degraded working, faults and failures with cameras and resolving problems etc. How to deal with trapped people / items in doors. Basically they're doing a guards job and remember most drivers at SWR have never done any door controls in their career so it's a big change to what they are used to.
 

swtrains

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Testing today (701044):

5T91 - Clapham Yard - Waterloo - normal.
5T92 - Waterloo - Waterloo - goes to Effingham Junction via Cobham and then heads back to Waterloo via Cobham.
5T93 - Waterloo - Waterloo - does the same as 5T92.
5T94 - Waterloo - Clapham Yard.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I was there around 16:30 and the lower platforms were all 450s
Rather discouraging to be honest.
 
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Hopefully this means the proposed diagram introduction rate won’t be as slow..
I’ve done the maths and assuming that 10 drivers are trained at once (as mentioned previously), that would be 150 every 3 months rather than only 90 with a 10 day length (not taking into account holidays or Sundays)
 

Goldfish62

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I’ve done the maths and assuming that 10 drivers are trained at once (as mentioned previously), that would be 150 every 3 months rather than only 90 with a 10 day length (not taking into account holidays or Sundays)
So with 600 drivers left to do, all done by the end of next year. Which publicly-owned SWR will take credit for. :lol:
 

Nogoohwell

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So with 600 drivers left to do, all done by the end of next year. Which publicly-owned SWR will take credit for. :lol:
Just need Alstom to pull their finger out and fix enough units to enter service.
We’ve all assumed staff training is the issue holding back the rollout, looks like it could be lack of trains limiting the roll out next year.
 

Goldfish62

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Just need Alstom to pull their finger out and fix enough units to enter service.
We’ve all assumed staff training is the issue holding back the rollout, looks like it could be lack of trains limiting the roll out next year.
Des anyone know exactly what the issues are with the units? I find it bizarre that two units which were among the last to be delivered, earlier this year, have just gone back to Derby presumably for "modifications". Why weren't these done prior to delivery?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Looks like there's only 1 701 on Windsors today
031 and 043 are on there according to RTT.
 

D365

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Just need Alstom to pull their finger out and fix enough units to enter service.
We’ve all assumed staff training is the issue holding back the rollout, looks like it could be lack of trains limiting the roll out next year.
Des anyone know exactly what the issues are with the units? I find it bizarre that two units which were among the last to be delivered, earlier this year, have just gone back to Derby presumably for "modifications". Why weren't these done prior to delivery?
It’s not all down to Alstom; there’s a number of modifications required to make each unit ”fit for service”. Responsibility for each modification ’package’ is agreed between Alstom and SWR.
 

Goldfish62

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It’s not all down to Alstom; there’s a number of modifications required to make each unit ”fit for service”. Responsibility for each modification ’package’ is agreed between Alstom and SWR.
Still seems odd that these later deliveries didn't have the mods incorporated. It must have been understood what was required because other units had already started running in service.
 

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