Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Goldfish62]

The question is how many will be delivered with pantographs and transformers, if the answer is all of them then initial testing is far easier as they can be thrashed up and down the WCML to identify most mechanical niggles.

None of them will actually be delivered with pantographs.

 

[Goldfish62]

There is a difference between delivery and production, especially if you have a stockpile of already complete units.
(e.g. several months of stock for TfL at Worksop at the equivalent delivery rate and plenty of 701/ 720s scattered around Derby.

The article in Modern Railways, not a magazine known for inaccuracies, couldn't really be any clearer. A 12 month introduction programme with all units in service by mid 2021. If you don't believe me, buy the magazine or read it in Smith's.

 

[hwl]

The article in Modern Railways, not a magazine known for inaccuracies, couldn't really be any clearer. A 12 month introduction programme with all units in service by mid 2021. If you don't believe me, buy the magazine or read it in Smith's.

Haven't had the time to read the latest one yet...

Mid 2021 only needs ~10cars a week manufactured given what they have already done.

 

[WWTownEnth]

If SWR decide they require some more of these units, how easy would it be to convert some of the 5 car variants into 10 car variants at a future date?

 

[Goldfish62]

Haven't had the time to read the latest one yet...

Mid 2021 only needs ~10cars a week manufactured given what they have already done.

Your assumption is based on the same rate of production throughout. Clearly at the moment they're not being produced at 10 a week so will need to be produced at a higher rate later in the programme to catch up.

 

[swt_passenger]

Except length, although they wouldn't have end gangways...

10 x 20m is usually considered shorter than 10 x 23m...

 

[DennisM]

If SWR decide they require some more of these units, how easy would it be to convert some of the 5 car variants into 10 car variants at a future date?

Maybe a cost effective option if needed would be to extend the 5 car units at a later date, just buy more intermediate coaches and use the existing end driving coaches.

 

[pompeyfan]

Having seen the following article about the DOO dispute (well worth a read, even if there’s a handful of things I don’t agree with. it is however about a 15 minute read start to finish so I won’t quote the post)

https://www.londonreconnections.com/2020/guards-in-name-only-dwell-times-and-the-swr-guards-dispute/

it states above that 701s have no door close panel in the vestibule? I thought there was 1 per coach?

 

[Goldfish62]

Having seen the following article about the DOO dispute (well worth a read, even if there’s a handful of things I don’t agree with. it is however about a 15 minute read start to finish so I won’t quote the post)

https://www.londonreconnections.com/2020/guards-in-name-only-dwell-times-and-the-swr-guards-dispute/

it states above that 701s have no door close panel in the vestibule? I thought there was 1 per coach?

It states that there's a door close inhibit control.

 

[Malcolmffc]

Having seen the following article about the DOO dispute (well worth a read, even if there’s a handful of things I don’t agree with. it is however about a 15 minute read start to finish so I won’t quote the post)

https://www.londonreconnections.com/2020/guards-in-name-only-dwell-times-and-the-swr-guards-dispute/

it states above that 701s have no door close panel in the vestibule? I thought there was 1 per coach?

Good, as it isn’t needed!

 

[pompeyfan]

All new build trains had to be specified to be both fully DOO and also conventionally operated. I’m almost certain I read in this thread that along with a local door override, each panel would have a door close and signal button?

If we could leave the yawnsome politics about doo out that would be great (y)

 

[daveshah]

Does anyone know if any significant signalling works are needed to use ABDO, or is it just a case of putting some passive balises (like the selective door opening ones) to trigger it down overnight with no link to the signalling?

 

[Fincra5]

All new build trains had to be specified to be both fully DOO and also conventionally operated. I’m almost certain I read in this thread that along with a local door override, each panel would have a door close and signal button?

If we could leave the yawnsome politics about doo out that would be great (y)

Even 700s - Which were intended for 100% DOO have Guards Panels... So I'd be shocked if 701s didn't.

 

[TEW]

All new build trains had to be specified to be both fully DOO and also conventionally operated. I’m almost certain I read in this thread that along with a local door override, each panel would have a door close and signal button?

If we could leave the yawnsome politics about doo out that would be great (y)

That's correct. 701s have the ability for the guards to close the doors. There are no door open buttons in the saloon panels and there are no controls suitable for guards to use in the driving cabs.

 

[Goldfish62]

That's correct. 701s have the ability for the guards to close the doors. There are no door open buttons in the saloon panels and there are no controls suitable for guards to use in the driving cabs.

So pretty much like Electrostars.

 

[Snow1964]

Does anyone know if any significant signalling works are needed to use ABDO, or is it just a case of putting some passive balises (like the selective door opening ones) to trigger it down overnight with no link to the signalling?

From memory there are (or soon will be) very few platforms that cannot take 10 car trains on the lines that they will be operating on. So won't be many to do anyway.

I think the bay platform at Kingston is officially limited to 8car (or less) trains in service, so presumably any shuttles will be restricted to 5 car units (at one time there was a plan to replace this bay and rebuild a siding at Norbiton to allow emergency reversals when main line has problems, but didn't happen)

 

[TEW]

So pretty much like Electrostars.

Yep, the same set up basically.

 

[TEW]

From memory there are (or soon will be) very few platforms that cannot take 10 car trains on the lines that they will be operating on. So won't be many to do anyway.

I think the bay platform at Kingston is officially limited to 8car (or less) trains in service, so presumably any shuttles will be restricted to 5 car units (at one time there was a plan to replace this bay and rebuild a siding at Norbiton to allow emergency reversals when main line has problems, but didn't happen)

There are still a fair number of short platforms on the Windsor Side routes that they will operate.

 

[Goldfish62]

There are still a fair number of short platforms on the Windsor Side routes that they will operate.

Yes, Hounslow loop, Windsor, Chertsey and Reading lines all have a fair number of short platforms. It's only on the main suburban where 455 and 456s without ASDO operate that there aren't any.

 

[traji00]

For completeness, here are the short platforms on the inner suburban lines (lengths are based on a 20m unit):

6 coaches:

• Virginia Water (P3)

7 coaches*:

• Datchet (P2)
• Isleworth
• Longcross
• Sunnymeads

8 coaches:

• Addlestone
• Datchet (P1)
• Earley
• Hounslow
• Kingston (P1)
• Syon Lane
• Winnersh
• Winnersh Triangle
• Wraysbury

*8 coaches of 455 stock can also call at these stations due to the different door positions of the 455, and also that they do not use the ASDO beacons.

 

[Goldfish62]

For completeness, here are the short platforms on the inner suburban lines (lengths are based on a 20m unit):

6 coaches:

• Virginia Water (P3)

7 coaches:

• Datchet (P2)
• Isleworth
• Longcross
• Sunnymeads

8 coaches:

• Addlestone
• Datchet (P1)
• Earley
• Hounslow
• Kingston (P1)
• Syon Lane
• Winnersh
• Winnersh Triangle
• Wraysbury

Just to add to that very handy list, the ones shown as 7 coaches can all accommodate 8-455. I believe to do with the positioning of the ADSO beacons, which 455s don't use.

 

[traji00]

Just to add to that very handy list, the ones shown as 7 coaches can all accommodate 8-455. I believe to do with the positioning of the ADSO beacons, which 455s don't use.

Thanks, I forgot to add that. Duly edited.

 

[traji00]

A 701/5 is at Velim:

 

[pompeyfan]

They sound very desiro like

 

[D365]

Those headlights are quite something!

 

[Bletchleyite]

They sound very desiro like

The LO ones do too. I think they look good, sort of "cute", whereas the longer-cab version looks like an evil monster.

 

[Domh245]

I'm impressed by how little is below the solebar (assuming that the bulk of the equipment on the pantograph vehicle is transformer and gets removed!), particularly on the vehicle with the toilet which I think is the middle one - if there are tanks they must be pretty small? Then again, the lack of equipment is something of an aventra trait by now! Can anyone confirm the formation of the units in terms of motors/trailers - I would guess at Bo'Bo'+Bo'2'+2'2'+2'Bo'+Bo'Bo' looking at the video and thinking for 50% motored axles?

 

[WombleGuard]

Did I see one of these at Wimbledon today....?

 

[NewSt]

Did I see one of these at Wimbledon today....?

Unlikely.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm impressed by how little is below the solebar (assuming that the bulk of the equipment on the pantograph vehicle is transformer and gets removed!), particularly on the vehicle with the toilet which I think is the middle one - if there are tanks they must be pretty small? Then again, the lack of equipment is something of an aventra trait by now! Can anyone confirm the formation of the units in terms of motors/trailers - I would guess at Bo'Bo'+Bo'2'+2'2'+2'Bo'+Bo'Bo' looking at the video and thinking for 50% motored axles?

Modern Railways states 40% motored, ie four axles. In comparison 458/5s are 30% and 455s 25%. Not sure about 450s or 707s.