Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[jackot]

Is this not pretty much exactly what they said this time last year? And the year before that?

It's not exactly news, and your right in that they have been due to enter service 'soon' for the last 3 years. I guess this is a decent sign, but the fact it has taken a FoI request in order for SWR to disclose when they should enter service to me shows them lacking confidence and not wanting to tell the public deadlines anymore, which is not a good sign in my view.

 

[gmaguire]

Is this not pretty much exactly what they said this time last year? And the year before that?

I was about to say…

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It’s not three years late, it’s four. SWR predicted initial entry to service in mid 2019, which seemed extremely optimistic even at the time of ordering as it only gave Bombardier two years.

 

[PG]

BBC news are running the following article.

First of £1bn trains to run in 2023, South Western Railway says

The high-capacity Arterio trains would enter service with South Western Railway three years late.

www.bbc.co.uk

Having read it I can’t help but think it’s intentionally vague!

Contains a lovely dig at SWR by Alstom - assume they're not anticipating any orders from First Group anytime soon

Alstom said it had acquired the trains' previous manufacturer Bombardier at the end of 2020, long after the project's due completion date.
A spokesman said: "Since then Alstom has delivered the same model of train to other customers including the Elizabeth Line which are operating very successfully."

 

[Energy]

Contains a lovely dig at SWR by Alstom - assume they're not anticipating any orders from First Group anytime soon

I don't think it is meant as a dig specifically at FirstGroup but just pointing out that Aventras are operating in the UK already. I'd be suprised if FG was planning any other orders with Bombardier following the 701s, Hitachi seems to be their current favourite.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

high capacity my foot.

What is the point of this post? Are you suggesting that the Class 701s do not have high capacity compared to the Class 455/458s they will predominantly replace, and if so, do you have evidence to the back this up? Only the design certainly suggests otherwise, and there’s even an advantage of the 701/0 on a pair of 707s as no space is being wasted by the gangway. S-T

 

[Goldfish62]

It's not exactly news, and your right in that they have been due to enter service 'soon' for the last 3 years. I guess this is a decent sign, but the fact it has taken a FoI request in order for SWR to disclose when they should enter service to me shows them lacking confidence and not wanting to tell the public deadlines anymore, which is not a good sign in my view.

I don't think it's a good sign or bad sign that no specific dates are mentioned. It's just sensible in the overall circumstances.

One of the things of particular interest is that the article confirms that SWR has accepted 24 units to date. It wouldn't have done that if it was so concerned over whether they'd ever work.

 

[VWRO2]

One of the software issues is definitely sorted now, where it could take an exceptionally long time to boot a unit up, I watched the one in Staines go from fully isolated to ready to go in 5 mins, somewhat better than previous reports

 

[Goldfish62]

One of the software issues is definitely sorted now, where it could take an exceptionally long time to boot a unit up, I watched the one in Staines go from fully isolated to ready to go in 5 mins, somewhat better than previous reports

Identical to the 710s. Things moved very quickly once that was fixed.

 

[444045]

Could someone please tell me which further 7 Class 701 units SWR have been accepted as my list currently only has 17 accepted :

701004/06/11/12/16/17/19/23/25/29/32/34/35/37/42/44 & 47.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.

 

[hwl]

Contains a lovely dig at SWR by Alstom - assume they're not anticipating any orders from First Group anytime soon

Is it a direct dig at SWR? Or indicative of some industrial relations issues at SWR that Alstom will bring up when the discussion of damages for late delivery and variation order fees will come up, might it even be that SWR have already accepted that some of the local SWR issues aren't issues at other operators? (Has there potentially been a DfT - Alstom discussion without SWR present where DfT learned a few new things that SWR hadn't previously mentioned to DfT?)
(DfT insisting that delivery rates had to be maintained in the first 5-6 months of Covid despite restrictions imposed by the government and then proceeded to build units with next to zero quality control will also probably come up. There will probably be an email trail where someone at DfT is effectively telling Bombarider/later Alstom (probably with multiple confirmations) during that period to effectively ignore some requirements of HASAWA without the person at DfT realising what they were doing or having sought legal advice)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Dec 2022 ==

I don't think it's a good sign or bad sign that no specific dates are mentioned. It's just sensible in the overall circumstances.

One of the things of particular interest is that the article confirms that SWR has accepted 24 units to date. It wouldn't have done that if it was so concerned over whether they'd ever work.

With no end to strikes in sight any specific dates are fairly meaningless...

 

[DanNCL]

HASAWA

HASAWA?

 

[Tobbes]

HASAWA?

Health And Safety At Work Act?

 

[Goldfish62]

With no end to strikes in sight any specific dates are fairly meaningless...

What has that got to do with anything? The strikes haven't prevented WMT and TfW from getting their new trains into service.

 

[pompeyfan]

I believe one is now being stored in Portsmouth & Southsea DCS after a trip down late Thursday evening.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I believe one is now being stored in Portsmouth & Southsea DCS after a trip down late Thursday evening.

Surely that will attract the local artists....

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

One of the software issues is definitely sorted now, where it could take an exceptionally long time to boot a unit up, I watched the one in Staines go from fully isolated to ready to go in 5 mins, somewhat better than previous reports

EP stock put the key in and ready to go

 

[Towers]

Surely that will attract the local artists....

Not sure that's a problem area, it's quite a tight space and pretty public?

 

[PG]

EP stock put the key in and ready to go

No doors for the drive to bother about either...

 

[WarrenTManager]

The DCS? Lots of stuff gets done down there.

 

[Towers]

The DCS? Lots of stuff gets done down there.

Oh! Fair enough then!

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Oh! Fair enough then!

WTM is not wrong. The problem is that these low life only need one row of (in this case railway) vehicles to hide them and they wreak havoc.

 

[Snow1964]

Could someone please tell me which further 7 Class 701 units SWR have been accepted as my list currently only has 17 accepted :

701004/06/11/12/16/17/19/23/25/29/32/34/35/37/42/44 & 47.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.

Rock rail units with charges is now just over 25% of the fleet (190 of 750 vehicles) :

Charges 2-4, 6-9, 11-22 cover following 19 units :
004, 006, 011, 012, 016, 017, 019, 023, 025, 029, 031, 032, 034, 035, 037, 042, 044, 047, 048

charges : 1 (general), 5 (simulators), 10 (spare parts) also exist, hence 22 charges, but only 19 trains.

Elsewhere it has been suggested that SWR have accepted 24 units, if so at least 5 more without charges are also accepted. (not sure if Rock Rail have any that SWR haven’t accepted)

The original delivery schedule had about 200 vehicles in service (service not just accepted) by early March 2020, before anyone had heard of covid, and started using that as a delay excuse.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Rock rail units with charges is now just over 25% of the fleet (190 of 750 vehicles) :

Charges 2-4, 6-9, 11-22 cover following 19 units :
004, 006, 011, 012, 016, 017, 019, 023, 025, 029, 031, 032, 034, 035, 037, 042, 044, 047, 048

charges : 1 (general), 5 (simulators), 10 (spare parts) also exist, hence 22 charges, but only 19 trains.

Elsewhere it has been suggested that SWR have accepted 24 units, if so at least 5 more without charges are also accepted. (not sure if Rock Rail have any that SWR haven’t accepted)

The original delivery schedule had about 200 vehicles in service (service not just accepted) by early March 2000, before anyone had heard of covid, and started using that as a delay excuse.

March 2000?

 

[norbitonflyer]

The original delivery schedule had about 200 vehicles in service (service not just accepted) by early March 2000, before anyone had heard of covid, and started using that as a delay excuse.

We had definitely heard of Covid19 by March 2000. (I had a holiday to Italy cancelled in February because of the outbreak there).
The first UK case was reported on January 1st and by the end of February there were 23. The first death was on March 9th.

But the first trains in service were expected in mid-2019, which was definitely before Covid.

 

[kw12]

We had definitely heard of Covid19 by March 2000. (I had a holiday to Italy cancelled in February because of the outbreak there).
The first UK case was reported on January 1st and by the end of February there were 23. The first death was on March 9th.

But the first trains in service were expected in mid-2019, which was definitely before Covid.

March 2000 was nearly 20 years before the first cases of Covid19

 

[Goldfish62]

Elsewhere it has been suggested that SWR have accepted 24 units, if so at least 5 more without charges are also accepted. (not sure if Rock Rail have any that SWR haven’t accepted)

Given that SWR responded to the FOI giving 24 as the number we have to take that as correct. I suppose the difference could be that SWR has accepted a further five units but Rock Rail has not yet purchased them.

 

[norbitonflyer]

March 2000 was nearly 20 years before the first cases of Covid19

Mea culpa, but with the mitigating circumstance that the text I quoted made exactly the same typo.

 

[444045]

Rock rail units with charges is now just over 25% of the fleet (190 of 750 vehicles) :

Charges 2-4, 6-9, 11-22 cover following 19 units :
004, 006, 011, 012, 016, 017, 019, 023, 025, 029, 031, 032, 034, 035, 037, 042, 044, 047, 048

charges : 1 (general), 5 (simulators), 10 (spare parts) also exist, hence 22 charges, but only 19 trains.

Elsewhere it has been suggested that SWR have accepted 24 units, if so at least 5 more without charges are also accepted. (not sure if Rock Rail have any that SWR haven’t accepted)

The original delivery schedule had about 200 vehicles in service (service not just accepted) by early March 2020, before anyone had heard of covid, and started using that as a delay excuse.

Thank you @Snow1964 for your help, much appreciated.

 

[Mainsideman]

There was a picture circulating a while ago that showed a guards operating panel? Has anyone got this cant seem to find it anywhere!