Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[Goldfish62]

Given the state of the toilets on the 700s, the ones one the 701s won’t stay pristine for long

Given it's two separate operators on a completely different set of routes in different geographic areas I'm failing to see the connection.

 

[73128]

2-Bils had toilets....

as did the 2SAPs used on Windsor/Weybridge services for some years. BILs (and later CORs) were used on the Reading (and Aldershot) line until replaced by CIGs and VEPs (all of which had toilets).

 

[norbitonflyer]

I would, was it not for the fact that the pretty much contemporary 317s were fitted with toilets, be inclined to agree.

The inestimable Alan Williams in "Not the Age of the train" in 1983 (I think the article first appeared in "Modern Railways"
Having sung the praises of the PEPs ("Posh Expensive Peooplemovers", he goes on to discuss the new "Unposh Greatly Loathed Incredibly Expensive Steel Train" )-
"The new Peoplemover in Shining Steel" (no acronym allowed!) comes in varous guises. Class 210 is BREL's contender for the repaklcement of the Smelly Old Diesels, and is much preferred by the PTEs to the railbus (who wouldn't?) but is so expensive that nione can afford it. Class 317 is an overhead electric version specially designed for one-man operation to allow ASLEF more instant surprise holidays and with aircraft type lavatories which allow you to do what comes naturally when the train is standing in the station, while Class 455is amore prosaic conductor rail electric version for the Southern Region, specially desined for DODO (dual operatives dozing off) operation to avoid prolonged ASLEF instant hiolidays (SR management knows a brick wall when it sees one) and, because nice people from Surrey don't do that sort of thing, no lavatories at all.

 

[DMckduck97]

Given the state of the toilets on the 700s, the ones one the 701s won’t stay pristine for long

Although, credit to Thameslink as although the toilets look shocking, they do still work

They could also start by fixing the back spray that covers the seat when you flush, and well whoever designed the tap and sensor to be closer to the floor than the sink deserves an award!

 

[Wolfie]

Given it's two separate operators on a completely different set of routes in different geographic areas I'm failing to see the connection.

I presume that they are assuming that the same toilet units are fitted and will be treated similarly.

 

[Goldfish62]

I presume that they are assuming that the same toilet units are fitted and will be treated similarly.

That's a rather strange connection to make. They're just a "bog" standard universal toilets. The scrotes that inhabit parts of the Thameslink network would vandalise the toilets whatever manufacturer or design they were.

 

[ls2270]

Another 701 off for storage today, anyone able to confirm unit number?

Thanks

701004 has gone to Marchwood this morning

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I presume that they are assuming that the same toilet units are fitted and will be treated similarly.

Well, the 701s actually do have quite unique toilets, at least under the hood. They're the first UK train to have bioreactors, which basically means the waste can be recycled and reprocessed on the train, and therefore the tanks don't have to be emptied for up to 45 days rather than every 2-3 days. Doesn't make much of a difference visually but it is something unique about these units .

 

[43066]

Well, the 701s actually do have quite unique toilets, at least under the hood. They're the first UK train to have bioreactors, which basically means the waste can be recycled and reprocessed on the train, and therefore the tanks don't have to be emptied for up to 45 days rather than every 2-3 days. Doesn't make much of a difference visually but it is something unique about these units .

I wonder how on earth that works - then again perhaps it’s better not to know!

 

[Goldfish62]

I wonder how on earth that works - then again perhaps it’s better not to know!

Common elsewhere in Europe apparently.

 

[InOban]

Question. While there seems to be an impasse about the training programme for existing SWR drivers, can we assume that all new drivers will complete their training including the 701?

 

[DMckduck97]

Question. While there seems to be an impasse about the training programme for existing SWR drivers, can we assume that all new drivers will complete their training including the 701?

Until a training plan has been agreed it doesn't look like it no. It will eventually become core traction for both drivers and guards in the metro area down the training school, but until aslef and swr come to some agreement no new drivers are being trained.

 

[Towers]

The inestimable Alan Williams in "Not the Age of the train" in 1983 (I think the article first appeared in "Modern Railways"
Having sung the praises of the PEPs ("Posh Expensive Peooplemovers", he goes on to discuss the new "Unposh Greatly Loathed Incredibly Expensive Steel Train" )-
"The new Peoplemover in Shining Steel" (no acronym allowed!) comes in varous guises. Class 210 is BREL's contender for the repaklcement of the Smelly Old Diesels, and is much preferred by the PTEs to the railbus (who wouldn't?) but is so expensive that nione can afford it. Class 317 is an overhead electric version specially designed for one-man operation to allow ASLEF more instant surprise holidays and with aircraft type lavatories which allow you to do what comes naturally when the train is standing in the station, while Class 455is amore prosaic conductor rail electric version for the Southern Region, specially desined for DODO (dual operatives dozing off) operation to avoid prolonged ASLEF instant hiolidays (SR management knows a brick wall when it sees one) and, because nice people from Surrey don't do that sort of thing, no lavatories at all.

That is brilliant!

 

[stuving]

I wonder how on earth that works - then again perhaps it’s better not to know!

Roughly speaking, it bears the same relationship to you local sewage treatment works as does your computer printer to a newspaper's web offset rotary printing press.

Protec (a German maker of such things) claimed the first in service in the UK in 2019, in a Scotrail Class 334 (see thread). But that's just one as a demo/trial, and SWR claimed the 701s as the first full fleet to get them (as, if and when). There's an implication of Protec's silence that they didn't supply them, but I have not found another name.

 

[norbitonflyer]

They're the first UK train to have bioreactors, which basically means the waste can be recycled and reprocessed on the train, and therefore the tanks don't have to be emptied for up to 45 days rather than every 2-3 days.

Given that none of them have yet done 45 days in service (043 has done 32 part days) it is possible that what people did in them in January is still there!

 

[Lockwood]

All these units going to Marchwood...
Previous speculation about getting the line to Hythe going again, and putting a juice rail on it...

Are they waiting for the Hythe line to reopen, ready to introduce the 701s on it?

 

[Sun Chariot]

All these units going to Marchwood...
Previous speculation about getting the line to Hythe going again, and putting a juice rail on it...

Are they waiting for the Hythe line to reopen, ready to introduce the 701s on it?

I live in hope!

 

[Carlisle]

If they’re not even allowed to extend 3rd rail to Headbolt Lane, Hythe will be zero.

 

[Invincible]

If they’re not even allowed to extend 3rd rail to Headbolt Lane, Hythe will be zero.

From the speculation thread on this, seems to be dependent on new housing estates at Hythe increasing the chance of more passengers to spend money on the rail line, against the current viable bus service?. If the rail route does become more viable SWR will use 158s for a new shuttle service to Southampton.

I expect security will have to be be improved to prevent graffiti on the outdoor stored 701s, until the driver and guard training can be sorted..

 

[SWT_USER]

043 out again this morning, just seen heading towards Windsor.

Good that there is now a (semi) peak run but as I've said before it would be good if the diagrams could be tweaked again so it could cover a busier service rather than one after the main peak.

 

[JonathanH]

Good that there is now a (semi) peak run but as I've said before it would be good if the diagrams could be tweaked again so it could cover a busier service rather than one after the main peak.

It appears to need to start and end at Wimbledon Park which somewhat restricts which diagram it can work on.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I expect security will have to be be improved to prevent graffiti on the outdoor stored 701s

The 701s are securely stored inside MoD Marchwood's compound. Perimeter fences are high and of barbed-wire; and the compound is not short of security guards, either.

There is some graffiti on 'em though. A yellow tag, "Arterio".

 

[SWT_USER]

It appears to need to start and end at Wimbledon Park which somewhat restricts which diagram it can work on.

Yes I understand that is the current situation. Anything to stop it from starting/ ending at Feltham instead? Feltham was built for stabling 701's AIUI.

Hopefully it won't be an issue for long as the introduction starts to ramp up.... but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Goldfish62]

043 out again this morning, just seen heading towards Windsor.

Good that there is now a (semi) peak run but as I've said before it would be good if the diagrams could be tweaked again so it could cover a busier service rather than one after the main peak.

It runs just behind the 0709 from Reading, which departs Staines at 0758. That's the busiest AM Peak up Reading service, often with standing room only by the time it arrives at Staines, so the 0753 from Windsor provides some relief for that.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Hopefully it won't be an issue for long as the introduction starts to ramp up.... but I'm not holding my breath.

From what I’ve heard they’re in no rush. It’s likely going to be another 3 month or so period before we see a new service similar to the original soft launch diagram to this new one

 

[Goldfish62]

From what I’ve heard they’re in no rush. It’s likely going to be another 3 month or so period before we see a new service similar to the original soft launch diagram to this new one

So another three months and all we'll see is another soft launch type two additional return journeys to Windsor M-F?!

At this rate the units will be life-expired before training is complete!

Clearly the "12-18 months for full introduction" that SWR stated in January was way off targeted. Maybe substituting months with years would be more accurate.

 

[DMckduck97]

Yes I understand that is the current situation. Anything to stop it from starting/ ending at Feltham instead? Feltham was built for stabling 701's AIUI.

Hopefully it won't be an issue for long as the introduction starts to ramp up.... but I'm not holding my breath.

Not enough of the current crop of drivers trained on the 701s sign feltham yard, so it would be a massive problem right now.

I believe the soft launch driver rotation was done on a voluntary basis, most likely in return for less work and Monday to Friday for the foreseeable future.

 

[Mainsideman]

Is the new diagram monday to friday only still?

 

[SWT_USER]

Is the new diagram monday to friday only still?

Monday to Friday for the early part of the day only. Thats the best SWR can do 5 years after they were due to be introduced.

 

[Goldfish62]

Monday to Friday for the early part of the day only. Thats the best SWR can do 5 years after they were due to be introduced.

It's fortunate that SWT got the training programme for the 707s underway before SWR took over otherwise we'd probably still be waiting for them as well, or they'd have gone straight to SE without ever entering service with SWR.