Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

[pokemonsuper9]

If they will only be on Birmingham-Liverpool temporarily is there really any point being introduced on those services in the first place if 350s will take over the route again?

Yes because there's no guarantee that they'll make it to Manchester (which is where I imagine they would have to abandon the Liverpool's to serve)

 

[Kite159]

Shall the LNWR 730's operate the St Albans Abbey branch?

Will a 730/2 even fit on those stations?

Although it would have probably be a good use of a 730/0 to free up a 350 for elsewhere

 

[AJDesiro]

Will a 730/2 even fit on those stations?

Although it would have probably be a good use of a 730/0 to free up a 350 for elsewhere

I’ve just had a look at the platform lengths in the NESA, and they are as follows:
Watford P11 - 88m
Watford North - 94m
Garston - 85m
Bricket Wood - 128m
How Wood - 85m
Park Street - 85m
St Albans Abbey - 105m

So it’s safe to say that a 120m 730/2 would only fit at Bricket Wood. As far as clearance goes they’re prohibited between Watford North Yard and St Albans Abbey.

Realistically the line will stay 350 operated, I seem to recall it being difficult to get 350s cleared on the branch in the first place? It’s probably something they wouldn’t want the hassle of having to do again.

 

[RealTrains07]

If/when the Birmingham - Crewe services get extended to Manchester Airport will they remain 350 operated?

730/2s don’t have the clearance to serve Stone as 5 coach train is too long due (especially with the positions of the signals on platform 2). Therefore, it is unlikely they will be able to work current crewe via stoke services.

From what I have heard previously on here, a single 730/2 is mean’t to be the equivalent to a 6 coach 350??

 

[800001]

730/2s don’t have the clearance to serve Stone as 5 coach train is too long due (especially with the positions of the signals on platform 2). Therefore, it is unlikely they will be able to work current crewe via stoke services.

From what I have heard previously on here, a single 730/2 is mean’t to be the equivalent to a 6 coach 350??

how did they manage at Stone when some services ran as 8 car 350s?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

If/when the Birmingham - Crewe services get extended to Manchester Airport will they remain 350 operated?

That service will not be going to Manchester. It is the Stafford - Crewe service that is proposed to extend to the airport.

730s will sign that route.

730/2s don’t have the clearance to serve Stone as 5 coach train is too long due (especially with the positions of the signals on platform 2). Therefore, it is unlikely they will be able to work current crewe via stoke services.

From what I have heard previously on here, a single 730/2 is mean’t to be the equivalent to a 6 coach 350??

We have been told they will be cleared to work that route in the future. Obviously it will foul the points unless the stop board is moved to the extreme south of the platform, even then it might not fit.

Yes, 6 coaches is about right.

 

[Kite159]

how did they manage at Stone when some services ran as 8 car 350s?

The few 8 coach services didn't call at Stone (nor Alsager & Kidsgrove I think), instead they ran a separate shuttle from Stafford to Crewe which connected with the 8 coach London - Crewe trains for those stations

 

[RealTrains07]

We have been told they will be cleared to work that route in the future. Obviously it will foul the points unless the stop board is moved to the extreme south of the platform, even then it might not fit.

Yes, 6 coaches is about right.

If a 730/2 cannot fit even with the proposed changes then surely it can’t serve Stone?

Its the same reason cross country can’t stop either

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

If a 730/2 cannot fit even with the proposed changes then surely it can’t serve Stone?

Its the same reason cross country can’t stop either

Why can't the stop sign be located past the platform and the rear coaches platformed rather than the front?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

If a 730/2 cannot fit even with the proposed changes then surely it can’t serve Stone?

Its the same reason cross country can’t stop either

I don't think it's a situation where it can't serve Stone, there is no issue with the train safely operating there even if it doesn't fit.

The question is whether it fouls the points. I believe that the sections around Stone junction are kept empty when Stone station is being served in both directions anyway, so it makes no difference to the signaller if it's occupying both sides of the Junction.

This is why trains are held at the preceding signal south of the station if a train is passing Stone junction from Hixon.

Why can't the stop sign be located past the platform and the rear coaches platformed rather than the front?

Because ASDO will only lock out doors that are not platforms at the rear surely? Also would mean the driver loses their emergency exit.

 

[317 forever]

That service will not be going to Manchester. It is the Stafford - Crewe service that is proposed to extend to the airport.

730s will sign that route.


We have been told they will be cleared to work that route in the future. Obviously it will foul the points unless the stop board is moved to the extreme south of the platform, even then it might not fit.

Yes, 6 coaches is about right.

Oh. I thought the London Euston - Crewe services were being extended to Manchester Victoria via Warrington Bank Quay, with the likely if not certain abolition of combined LNWR with Northern or TfW tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because ASDO will only lock out doors that are not platforms at the rear surely?

There's nothing that says ASDO can't lock out front coaches. I believe the system on the Northern 195/331s does at some stations.

Also would mean the driver loses their emergency exit.

Not sure I understand here - the driver can always evacuate to the track were it needed.

 

[AJDesiro]

Oh. I thought the London Euston - Crewe services were being extended to Manchester Victoria via Warrington Bank Quay, with the likely if not certain abolition of combined LNWR with Northern or TfW tickets.

Yes, LNR wish to extend the Euston-Crewe services to Manchester Victoria via Warrington. They also wish to extend the Stafford-Crewe service to Manchester Aiport.

 

[317 forever]

Yes, LNR wish to extend the Euston-Crewe services to Manchester Victoria via Warrington. They also wish to extend the Stafford-Crewe service to Manchester Aiport.

So they do have both extensions under consideration. That's useful to know thanks.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Oh. I thought the London Euston - Crewe services were being extended to Manchester Victoria via Warrington Bank Quay, with the likely if not certain abolition of combined LNWR with Northern or TfW tickets.

Yes that is the other Manchester service. I was just commenting on the post that said the Birmingham to Crewe service was being extended which no longer exists, it terminates at Stafford.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes that is the other Manchester service. I was just commenting on the post that said the Birmingham to Crewe service was being extended which no longer exists, it terminates at Stafford.

Isn't that being extended back to Brum to serve the Camp Hill line when it opens?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

There's nothing that says ASDO can't lock out front coaches. I believe the system on the Northern 195/331s does at some stations.

Fair point. Be a useful alternative, don't think our training materials mention front being locked out though

Isn't that being extended back to Brum to serve the Camp Hill line when it opens?

No, Crewe depot the only one that signs via Stoke. They don't sign south of New St at all.

 

[nap666]

Isn't that being extended back to Brum to serve the Camp Hill line when it opens?

Not until someone wires the camp hill line.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Fair point. Be a useful alternative, don't think our training materials mention front being locked out though

It may well not be programmed into the Aventras (does anyone know if any Aventras SDO out the front doors?)

 

[Silverlinky]

Why can't the stop sign be located past the platform and the rear coaches platformed rather than the front?

Would complicate matters somewhat by having different stopping positions for a train. You'd need a 4/5 board on the platform for normal length trains and then an 8/10 board off the north end for longer trains rather than the current S board. Additional risk of stop-shorts with longer trains stopping at the shorter board.

It's been reported by Today's Railways on Twitter that the 730/2s will first work the 16:19 Euston-Northampton on the 9th June, with the full diagram, starting with the 06:56 Bletchley-Euston being implemented the following day.

https://x.com/TodaysRailways/status/1925920495410491602

This has now been diagrammed from the 9th, entering service on the shortest diagram initially, normally a 8 car 350 diagram, ECS Bletchley CS to Bletchley, Bletchley-Euston, Euston -Camden, Camden-Euston, Euston-Northampton, Northampton-Bletchley CS.
Monday will indeed see the 350's handle the morning half and the 730's the afternoon half, with Tuesday seeing 730's on both, 10 car formation planned.

Bletchley CS either end will be replaced by Bletchley TMD as the trains will work on and off there.

Monday 9th's pm diagram sees a prep required on the 730's at Camden, indicating they will have been there at least a day before their turn of work, but unable to find a path where they work into Camden on the preceding days.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Would complicate matters somewhat by having different stopping positions for a train. You'd need a 4/5 board on the platform for normal length trains and then an 8/10 board off the north end for longer trains rather than the current S board. Additional risk of stop-shorts with longer trains stopping at the shorter board.

TfW have overshooting and SDO at a couple of their stations so they can clear level crossings, a driver should probably know how long their own train is.

 

[AJDesiro]

Isn't that being extended back to Brum to serve the Camp Hill line when it opens?

I think you're getting that mixed up with the line from Wolverhampton-Bescot, which the Birmingham-Crewe was diverted via back in May 2022 before the service was curtailed to Stafford in December 2023.
The WMR Shrewsbury service was recast back in June last year to a 2tph all day pattern Monday-Saturday, with the xx26 from New St calling at Tame Bridge Parkway, alongside the new stations at Darlaston and Willenhall; alleviating the need for the Birmingham-Crewe service to call at these stations. The other service calling at these stations IIRC is the return of the Walsall-Wolverhampton shuttle (how many times has this been attempted now!?).

However I think it's safe to say that Stafford-Crewe will remain 350 operated, the demand isn't there to justify a 730/2, although a 730/0 would probably work quite well...

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

TfW have overshooting and SDO at a couple of their stations so they can clear level crossings, a driver should probably know how long their own train is.

I've just remembered where I've seen this recently: one of the stations on the Peterborough to Ely line. Could've been Manea? Front two coaches one way and rear two the other.

 

[tfw756rider]

This has now been diagrammed from the 9th, entering service on the shortest diagram initially, normally a 8 car 350 diagram, ECS Bletchley CS to Bletchley, Bletchley-Euston, Euston -Camden, Camden-Euston, Euston-Northampton, Northampton-Bletchley CS.
Monday will indeed see the 350's handle the morning half and the 730's the afternoon half, with Tuesday seeing 730's on both, 10 car formation planned.

Thanks - just to be clear, will 1W51 1619 London Euston to Northampton on Monday the 9/6/25 be the first 730/2-operated normal passenger service?

 

[Gordonman]

02/06/2025

37510 730230 5Q57 Crewe LNWR - Old Dalby
730231 730232 5T01 Bletchley - Crewe LNWR and 5T02 return

There were two sets of 730'2s on Camden sidings on Friday/Saturday.Cannot remember the numbers

 

[mansonlo49]

5T02 got cancelled, with 5T01 got stuck somewhere near Lichfield junction

 

[Silverlinky]

TfW have overshooting and SDO at a couple of their stations so they can clear level crossings, a driver should probably know how long their own train is.

You'd like to think so eh? WMR have 20-30 stop short incidents a year which is only a tiny percentage of the overall station stops made, but nevertheless it does happen.

5T02 got cancelled, with 5T01 got stuck somewhere near Lichfield junction

5T01 turned up at Bletchley at around 3pm.

Thanks - just to be clear, will 1W51 1619 London Euston to Northampton on Monday the 9/6/25 be the first 730/2-operated normal passenger service?

Correct!

 

[Peter Sarf]

02/06/2025

37510 730230 5Q57 Crewe LNWR - Old Dalby
730231 730232 5T01 Bletchley - Crewe LNWR and 5T02 return

There were two sets of 730'2s on Camden sidings on Friday/Saturday.Cannot remember the numbers

+

5T02 got cancelled, with 5T01 got stuck somewhere near Lichfield junction

Looks like 5T01 got terminated at Lichfield having arrived 4 minutes early. Then went back South fairly promptly.

(EDIT noticed there were OHLE issues between Colwich and Stafford sometime that day).

But the RTT for 5T01 Northbound has the actual times for the Southbound journey in it so the train looks to get steadily later and later as it is in effect going backwards !. The Southbound 5T02 was cancelled but really looks as though 720231 & 730232 should appear in it running early from Lichfield to Bletchley.

5T01 Northbound

5T02 Southbound

I have pasted below the relevant part of the journey showing the units returning South backwards. It is not pretty as I seem to not be able to keep the formatting. But it shows what I mean before RTT gets fed better information.

EDIT 00:31 + 1day - replaced with screen print below.

 

[brick60000]

It may well not be programmed into the Aventras (does anyone know if any Aventras SDO out the front doors?)

Yes, fairly sure that GA's 720s operate in this way?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There were two sets of 730'2s on Camden sidings on Friday/Saturday.Cannot remember the numbers

I eyeballed 730 234 at Camden on Saturday; I was on the 10.09 from Euston and later the 16.36 from Apsley; it was the only one present on both passes and was in the far road against the wall.