Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

[StewartStag]

8Q57 Worksop to Derby today was 37611 730033 37601

 

[Peter Mugridge]

730036 & 730038 have moved to Doncaster Belmont for storage today

There's at least five of them in there as of a couple of minutes ago.

 

[Razor1967]

730040 and 730041 moved yesterday, now 6 there.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thank you; what are the other two that are present please?

 

[Razor1967]

730037 and 730039 are the other two.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

730037 and 730039 are the other two.

Thank you.

 

[AJDesiro]

Thought it'd be worth noting, I've just looked at the factsheet again, it seems they've corrected the seating count for the LNR 730/2s, they're now saying that they have 406 seats, vice the previously stated 463: https://www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk/media/2665/download?inline

There's also a rather interesting article on railway gazette which gives details on fleet introduction, current training status, and where we're most likely to see them (some of the details given in the video interview with the engineering director inside the article are slightly different to that of the factsheet) while being deliberately vague about the /2s: https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/w...out-aventra-emu-deployment-plan/64477.article

In my opinion, we have some exciting times ahead for sure!

 

[778]

Thought it'd be worth noting, I've just looked at the factsheet again, it seems they've corrected the seating count for the LNR 730/2s, they're now saying that they have 406 seats, vice the previously stated 463: https://www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk/media/2665/download?inline

There's also a rather interesting article on railway gazette which gives details on fleet introduction, current training status, and where we're most likely to see them (some of the details given in the video interview with the engineering director inside the article are slightly different to that of the factsheet) while being deliberately vague about the /2s: https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/w...out-aventra-emu-deployment-plan/64477.article

In my opinion, we have some exciting times ahead for sure!

The 2/s now seem to be 1/s according to the article. Interestingly, it mentions that "On WCML services, pairs of five-car Class 730/1s will replace 12-car Class 350 formations". Does this mean that services that are now 8 car formations will only be 5 cars? That would be a reduction in seating. I am not sure we will see any 5 car 730s in service until 2025, because of the ASLEF dispute, and the depot building extention works at Bletchley. It takes much longer for new trains to enter service these days anyway.

Also some of the services listed on the fact sheet are in bold text like Crewe - London Euston and some are in normal text like Liverpool - Birmingham. Probably does not mean anything though.

 

[AJDesiro]

The 2/s now seem to be 1/s according to the article. Interestingly, it mentions that "On WCML services, pairs of five-car Class 730/1s will replace 12-car Class 350 formations". Does this mean that services that are now 8 car formations will only be 5 cars? That would be a reduction in seating. I am not sure we will see any 5 car 730s in service until 2025, because of the ASLEF dispute, and the depot building extention works at Bletchley. It takes much longer for new trains to enter service these days anyway.

Also some of the services listed on the fact sheet are in bold text like Crewe - London Euston and some are in normal text like Liverpool - Birmingham. Probably does not mean anything though.

The Engineering Director in the video states that they are 730/2s. It's been mentioned up thread that Euston-Crewe will most likely be seeing 10 car 730 formations, with 12 car 350s in the interim, while the article states that they are looking into reintroducing 2tph on Birmingham-Liverpool using 5 car 730s (whether the DfT would allow this or not is a different story), giving a capacity uplift of 80m worth of carriage per hour on both services.

5 cars shouldn't take too long to get into service once the ORR approve them, considering the main difference is the formation, interior and maximum speed, I'd imagine a relatively short conversion course will be required.

I believe that services are marked as bold to distinguish them, alternating between one normal, and one bold.

 

[Energy]

The Engineering Director in the video states that they are 730/2s. It's been mentioned up thread that Euston-Crewe will most likely be seeing 10 car 730 formations, with 12 car 350s in the interim, while the article states that they are looking into reintroducing 2tph on Birmingham-Liverpool using 5 car 730s (whether the DfT would allow this or not is a different story), giving a capacity uplift of 80m worth of carriage per hour on both services.

In the video he also says London to Northampton services will be the initial ones while the fact sheet says London to Milton Keynes.

 

[AJDesiro]

In the video he also says London to Northampton services will be the initial ones while the fact sheet says London to Milton Keynes.

that one confused me, presumably he meant that, since there have been no regular London-Northampton services that don’t go through to new st since December as far as I know.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

that one confused me, presumably he meant that, since there have been no regular London-Northampton services that don’t go through to new st since December as far as I know.

Yep, it's the 319 routes first so won't be Northampton services.

Haven't watched the video, but should be Wolves-Walsall next for the /0.

Our DIs have said it's a 1 week conversion from the /0 to /1 or /2

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the video he also says London to Northampton services will be the initial ones while the fact sheet says London to Milton Keynes.

There's been lots of to-ing and fro-ing over it. With portion working having been more or less entirely stopped, thus removing the risk of a 350 and 730 showing up together to couple, my suspicion is that it'll be a lot more random in allocation terms, i.e. if they want a 240m or 120m formation they'll use 730s and if they want a 160m formation they'll use 350s rather than that units will be allocated to specific service groups. An 80m formation isn't really suitable for anything (i.e. 4.350) so hopefully those will cease, though there aren't many diagrammed even now.

As for initial deployment it'll be the /0s to replace 319s. I don't think any 319s go to Northampton now, though a few did before the major timetable change.

 

[AJDesiro]

Yep, it's the 319 routes first so won't be Northampton services.

Haven't watched the video, but should be Wolves-Walsall next for the /0.

Our DIs have said it's a 1 week conversion from the /0 to /1 or /2

1 week!? They must be more different than I thought! Apparently the conversion from 195 to 331 is around a day or two.

There's been lots of to-ing and fro-ing over it. With portion working having been more or less entirely stopped, thus removing the risk of a 350 and 730 showing up together to couple, my suspicion is that it'll be a lot more random in allocation terms, i.e. if they want a 240m or 120m formation they'll use 730s and if they want a 160m formation they'll use 350s rather than that units will be allocated to specific service groups. An 80m formation isn't really suitable for anything (i.e. 4.350) so hopefully those will cease, though there aren't many diagrammed even now.

As for initial deployment it'll be the /0s to replace 319s. I don't think any 319s go to Northampton now, though a few did before the major timetable change.

I do wonder whether this would happen, though, I wouldn’t imagine this would work for every route, with Liverpool being hourly, if a unit fails at, say, Liverpool South Parkway, and there’s only one other 730 diagrammed on Liverpool’s, in Birmingham, you’d be waiting a very long time to rescue the unit - unless they were to use a unit from Crewe L&NWR depot (if they’ll stable 730s there, I believe some 350s are stabled there). I’d imagine this could also apply to the Trent valley runs north of Rugby, where there’s a lot less service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder whether this would happen, though, I wouldn’t imagine this would work for every route, with Liverpool being hourly, if a unit fails at, say, Liverpool South Parkway, and there’s only one other 730 diagrammed on Liverpool’s, in Birmingham, you’d be waiting a very long time to rescue the unit - unless they were to use a unit from Crewe L&NWR depot (if they’ll stable 730s there, I believe some 350s are stabled there). I’d imagine this could also apply to the Trent valley runs north of Rugby, where there’s a lot less service.

Plenty of TOCs mix incompatible units on the same routes. LNR (WMT) is one of the few that mostly doesn't, give or take the occasional 319, but don't forget that they do mix with Pendolinos and other units on fairly large sections of their network anyway.

Using an emergency coupler you can couple anything to anything (pretty much) for the purpose of shoving it out of the way.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

1 week!? They must be more different than I thought! Apparently the conversion from 195 to 331 is around a day or two.

They really aren't, but that's what's been said so far! Saying that, they are giving plenty of time at Crewe for refresh training for the DIs ready to train the rest of the depot. Clearly no rush at the moment. That or they'd rather plan for longer than necessary

 

[Energy]

that one confused me, presumably he meant that, since there have been no regular London-Northampton services that don’t go through to new st since December as far as I know.

Indeed, I couldn't see any in the timetable and you'd want 350s on Northampton runs as it's their home depot.

There's been lots of to-ing and fro-ing over it. With portion working having been more or less entirely stopped, thus removing the risk of a 350 and 730 showing up together to couple, my suspicion is that it'll be a lot more random in allocation terms, i.e. if they want a 240m or 120m formation they'll use 730s and if they want a 160m formation they'll use 350s rather than that units will be allocated to specific service groups. An 80m formation isn't really suitable for anything (i.e. 4.350) so hopefully those will cease, though there aren't many diagrammed even now.

As for initial deployment it'll be the /0s to replace 319s. I don't think any 319s go to Northampton now, though a few did before the major timetable change.

The splitting and joining at Northampton seemed to be getting them through Northampton depot.

The LNWR 730s are being based at Bletchley so I'd imagine they'll be the main traction for MK services and they'll use Euston to swap them around between MK and Crewe services to get them all going through Bletchley.

Wonder how they originally planned to do it while keeping 2+2 and 3+2 units on the correct services.

 

[AJDesiro]

Indeed, I couldn't see any in the timetable and you'd want 350s on Northampton runs as it's their home depot.

The splitting and joining at Northampton seemed to be getting them through Northampton depot.

The LNWR 730s are being based at Bletchley so I'd imagine they'll be the main traction for MK services and they'll use Euston to swap them around between MK and Crewe services to get them all going through Bletchley.

Wonder how they originally planned to do it while keeping 2+2 and 3+2 units on the correct services.

I wouldn’t imagine that would be able to happen without another timetable change, it’d also destroy one of the biggest points of the current timetable - the diagrams are fully self contained.

What I’d imagine would be more likely is the changing of ECS moves where possible to suit the current timetable, such as changing the Trent Valley services that start at Northampton in the morning, and terminate at Northampton in the evening to start/finish at Bletchley or Milton Keynes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wonder how they originally planned to do it while keeping 2+2 and 3+2 units on the correct services.

Judging by the 350s both types would have ended up anywhere.

 

[185]

Judging by the 350s both types would have ended up anywhere.

Oh there's still time, I'm picturing a 10-car /1 on the Cross City, with 700 passengers on a horrid 3-car orange thing on the Trent. You know it'll happen

 

[AJDesiro]

Oh there's still time, I'm picturing a 10-car /1 on the Cross City, with 700 passengers on a horrid 3-car orange thing on the Trent. You know it'll happen

It'd be interesting to see how much time that would lose, or if it'd be similar to a 165 vs 168 situation. Hopefully it won't happen, since they're both based at different depots.

 

[Skymonster]

730103 dragged from Old Dalby to Crewe CS by 37510 today, 5Q42

 

[AJDesiro]

730103 dragged from Old Dalby to Crewe CS by 37510 today, 5Q42

Does anyone know why it was at Old Dalby?

 

[08221]

730103 dragged from Old Dalby to Crewe CS by 37510 today, 5Q42

Passing Uttoxeter.

 

[800001]

Does anyone know why it was at Old Dalby?

Testing!

 

[AJDesiro]

Testing!

Do we know what they were testing, have any modifications been made?

 

[Fidelis]

It'd be interesting to see how much time that would lose, or if it'd be similar to a 165 vs 168 situation. Hopefully it won't happen, since they're both based at different depots.

Oh there's still time, I'm picturing a 10-car /1 on the Cross City, with 700 passengers on a horrid 3-car orange thing on the Trent. You know it'll happen

On Tuesday I had a meeting with WMT who confirmed that the original plan to have the 3 car 730/0 on the Cross City Line and the 730/1 on the LNWR routes is still in place as they have different seating layouts and top speeds. Autumn is the proposed time and then the glorious orange WMR trains will have acquired the necessary mileage and be based at Soho TMD.

 

[800001]

Do we know what they were testing, have any modifications been made?

Think that will be a private discussion between Alstom and LNWR. Maybe testing something as simple as a Softaware mod.

 

[wickham]

A Derby to Oxley move took place on Wednesday 19th July, is it known which unit was conveyed please?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Haven't watched the video, but should be Wolves-Walsall next for the /0.

Is that via new Street, or the new route via Darlaston that's supposed to be coming when that station opens?