Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

[800001]

Where does 1408 say Lime Street ?

One would ‘assume’ when some one put to Liverpool that it implies Lime Street.

Like if someone said up to Carlisle I would assume the station, not Upperby, or Kindmoor!

 

[Peter Sarf]

I know that the 3 cars are for WMT and that 5 cars are for LNR. I'm talking about when the 3 cars start running in Birmingham (which will still be while 3 cars are being used in London on an interim basis, and before the 5 cars are ready)

Yes. I don't think @stXeve was thinking of the temporary situation, which I assumed you were.

 

[D7666]

Re. the need (and in one post, believability) to do tings such as 15 car 730 has been demonstrated with Thameslink 700s.

Part of the testing program was to try out 24 car 700 exactly for the purpose of emergency rescue and defective to depot tractor moves. IIRC that testing was carried out as a prerequisite before any 700carried a fare paying passenger.

Doing something like that without test proof leads to all sorts of issues. One of the things that occurred with the 24 car 700 in the third rail zone was upsetting track circuits; this was actually predicted and they had signals technical officers ready to deal. I'm not saying that would come up with 15car 730s, but it might, as well as a heap of other things. You don't want a string of track circuit failure the first time you try this out in anger.

TL have done 5 such 700s moves I am aware of, and I'm pretty sure I only know of a minority count. I know of two 24 car rescue missions, where one FLU in service was summoned to rescue another FLU in service, all with passengers albeit short distance to first convenient detraining point, one FLU+FLU one RLU+RLU and one very short RLU+RLU+RLU station to depot tractor moves.

Same reasons they do tests like 700+80x, 345+80x, etc, etc. Almost any realistic combination you can think of will have been tried and tested.What might not have been known is anyone posting the tests never mind you tube videos of them happening.

Shock horror but the people doing testing and commissioning do actually know what they are doing.

Imagine the howls of disgust if a 730 failed, everything close by was other 730s boxing in the failure, blocking running lines either side of the failure, but not allowed to go rescue, now the whole railway gridlocked as nothing get to the failure. Instant howls of why was this not tested.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Shock horror but the people doing testing and commissioning do actually know what they are doing.

Hence my amusement higher up in the thread when someone saw a 15 car 730 and was responded with "they can't fit them in at Liverpool." I'm quite sure the formation was planned and not a mistake, they know what they're doing!

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

730002 Running through Wolverhampton on test at 12-45 heading towards Birmingham

 

[Chiltern006]

Quick question - Why didn’t WMT put the 730s on the Chase Line first so that 350s could come down to the southern WCML and replace the 319s, probably a silly question but oh well

 

[JonathanH]

Quick question - Why didn’t WMT put the 730s on the Chase Line first so that 350s could come down to the southern WCML and replace the 319s, probably a silly question but oh well

The initial 730 workings are short mileage diagrams which are essentially self contained. It is easier to get those into use than more complicated all day diagrams in the West Midlands.

 

[Liam L]

Quick question - Why didn’t WMT put the 730s on the Chase Line first so that 350s could come down to the southern WCML and replace the 319s, probably a silly question but oh well

Training has only recently started in West Midlands on the fleet so the 350s can't be released to replace the 319s. I believe a few crew depots have to trained in WM to allow the chase line to switch to 730s compared to Bletchley.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Quick question - Why didn’t WMT put the 730s on the Chase Line first so that 350s could come down to the southern WCML and replace the 319s, probably a silly question but oh well

Bear in mind that Bletchley depot is to end up maintaining 730/2s in the long term so it makes sense to lend them 730/0s rather than training them up for temporary support on 350s. Especially as Birmingham area is not ready for them (needs a big bang switch over). Same could possibly be true regarding drivers and guards around Bletchley.

It is worth bearing in mind that the LNR WCML fleet and workings are being split in two (350s on some routes/workings and 730/2s on others).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bear in mind that Bletchley depot is to end up maintaining 730/2s in the long term so it makes sense to lend them 730/0s rather than training them up for temporary support on 350s. Especially as Birmingham area is not ready for them (needs a big bang switch over). Same could possibly be true regarding drivers and guards around Bletchley.

It is worth bearing in mind that the LNR WCML fleet and workings are being split in two (350s on some routes/workings and 730/2s on others).

Bletchley drivers/guards will presumably still work 350s south of Bletchley on the Birmingham services, or at least I've not heard anything to suggest otherwise.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Bletchley drivers/guards will presumably still work 350s south of Bletchley on the Birmingham services, or at least I've not heard anything to suggest otherwise.

The need for Bletchley crews to work both types (350 & 730) raises the question; will this also be required by Northampton ones? At the moment they work early morning/late evening workings from Northampton into the Crewe circuits (which might disappear with the new stock, I accept - but would destroy a useful early morning connection to XC and Scotland), and the Crewe trains run via Northampton on Sundays so is this another depot that will need training?

I was told some time ago that there technically wasn't a 'Northampton' driver depot, they were 'Bletchley' drivers outstationed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The need for Bletchley crews to work both types (350 & 730) raises the question; will this also be required by Northampton ones?

I would be very, very surprised if all WMT drivers and guards that presently work 350s don't end up working both, with the exception of any who only sign West Midlands routes where 350s will no longer work.

If they do otherwise, the impacts of disruption will be much, much higher.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I would be very, very surprised if all WMT drivers and guards that presently work 350s don't end up working both, with the exception of any who only sign West Midlands routes where 350s will no longer work.

If they do otherwise, the impacts of disruption will be much, much higher.

Indeed.
Does mean a lot of training, with training being (I've been told) much reduced to provide cover for service trains during overtime bans at the moment. So may be a long while before the 730s are in full service, on that basis.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Has the third diagram replacing 319s started ?.

 

[BucksBones]

Further to Peter's post, does anyone know if there will be any more than just the 3 730 diagrams in the short term to mitigate against the constant short forming of 350-operated services?

 

[45076]

Is there an updated list of units that have worked in service available?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Do any LNR/WMR services travel between Colwich and Stone, even as empties?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Do any LNR/WMR services travel between Colwich and Stone, even as empties?

Not that I'm aware of, only Crewe Drivers sign it and there's no ecs that way

 

[The_Train]

Is there an updated list of units that have worked in service available?

https://www.ukraillog.co.uk/fleet-data/emu/730

Type "active" into the Search Fleet bar

As always, if anyone has info that differs from what I have on there, let me know so I can update it

 

[Peter Sarf]

Has the third diagram replacing 319s started ?.

To answer my own question :-

Given that the 319s out of Euston on 2T49 (15:54) to Tring and 2K45 (16:39) to MKC have been replaced with 730s does anyone know what is booked for 2T53 (16:24) Euston to Tring please?

MTIA

And the answer is yes :-

730012 + 730013

So I make that :-
15:54 2T49 Euston to Tring
16:24 2T53 Euston to Tring
16:39 2K45 Euston to Milton Keynes Central/

But is that correct ?.

 

[45076]

https://www.ukraillog.co.uk/fleet-data/emu/730

Type "active" into the Search Fleet bar

As always, if anyone has info that differs from what I have on there, let me know so I can update it

Thanks Matt.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And it starts...0656 off Bletchley short formed to 3.

 

[Peter Sarf]

And it starts...0656 off Bletchley short formed to 3.

Oh well, look on the bright side. Eventually LNR won't be able to short form as low as even 4-car !.

That's if the order is not tinkered with anymore !.

 

[DarloRich]

Is the work on going at Bletchley depot to enable it to care for the new trains? I notice lots of diggers doing stuff with most of the site cordoned off. I hope they don't demolish the water tower.

16:39 2K45 Euston to Milton Keynes Central/

this one has been a solid orange machine all week. I see it each evening at Bletchley whilst waiting for the MV train

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Oh well, look on the bright side. Eventually LNR won't be able to short form as low as even 4-car !.

That's if the order is not tinkered with anymore !.

They will, because 350/1/3/4 won’t be going anywhere.

 

[BucksBones]

Just on one for the first time. It's fine in many ways.... But my god, the seats!!

It's notable that people would rather stand than sit next to anyone thanks to the 6 inch wide seats. And said seats are so tall that if you were unfortunate enough to be wedged in the window seat with someone next to you it would be unpleasantly claustrophobic despite the glaring LEDs. I am also finding the seat shape itself extremely uncomfortable because it's far too upright; although I suppose that's true of all modern trains.

I thought the seating on the 350/2s was bad (I hate that feeling of fighting for shoulder room with the person next to you) but these are far, far worse. I'm glad the LNR ones will be differently specced.


PS - toilet door broken already, had to close it manually. And the tap is aimed at the edge of the sink guaranteeing a wet midriff every time. Amazing.

 

[800001]

730101 been hauled as 5Q58 Oxley to Old Dalby is stranded near Kingsbury (been there since 1225 ish) after suffering severe wheel flats on one carriage, currently been fitted with wheel skates and will move after midnight on to Central Rivers depot.

XC been diverting services via Lichfield.

 

[Ladder23]

Just on one for the first time. It's fine in many ways.... But my god, the seats!!

It's notable that people would rather stand than sit next to anyone thanks to the 6 inch wide seats. And said seats are so tall that if you were unfortunate enough to be wedged in the window seat with someone next to you it would be unpleasantly claustrophobic despite the glaring LEDs. I am also finding the seat shape itself extremely uncomfortable because it's far too upright; although I suppose that's true of all modern trains.

I thought the seating on the 350/2s was bad (I hate that feeling of fighting for shoulder room with the person next to you) but these are far, far worse. I'm glad the LNR ones will be differently specced.


PS - toilet door broken already, had to close it manually. And the tap is aimed at the edge of the sink guaranteeing a wet midriff every time. Amazing.

Believe I’ll struggle, even on a 700 with someone next to me I struggle sitting unless I have my hands on my lap and my legs pushed together, I'm very broad with big shoulders, often I stand just to avoid awkwardness. Will soon see how the 730’s are..

I do like the single seating formation though, not sure which carriages exactly these are on, believe it’s the disabled/ wheelchair/ cycle carriage?

 

[AJDesiro]

Believe I’ll struggle, even on a 700 with someone next to me I struggle sitting unless I have my hands on my lap and my legs pushed together, I'm very broad with big shoulders, often I stand just to avoid awkwardness. Will soon see how the 730’s are..

I do like the single seating formation though, not sure which carriages exactly these are on, believe it’s the disabled/ wheelchair/ cycle carriage?

The single seats are near the inner ends of the driving carriages, i.e. the ends closest to the middle carriage.

 

[Ladder23]

The single seats are near the inner ends of the driving carriages, i.e. the ends closest to the middle carriage.

That’s handy to know thanks for the heads up!