birchesgreen
Established Member
Well yes indeed, and here they are:
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Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates
- Thread starter 221101 Voyager
- Start date
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Northerngirl
Member
Thanks, I'll see if I can get on that then
Cross City
Member
Can’t wait to try these out! Hopefully a much needed capacity boost.
DaveyJones
Member
Depends on your definition of capacity... "More standing room" isn't more Seats
ThameslinkUser
Member
Presumably hence the use of the word 'capacity' rather than 'seats'
Thornaby 37
Member
Youtube footage of the Cross City 730s courtesy of SimOnTrains
Cross City
Member
No point in stuffing these with seats, most people are on them for 20-30 minutes at absolute most. If we’re not getting longer trains this is ideal.
I’m slightly disappointed they didn’t go for Overground style layouts tbh.
Quite.
birchesgreen
Established Member
I dunno about you but 20-30 minutes is quite a long time to be without a seat, not everyone is a spring chicken anymore 
Cross City
Member
I dunno about you but 20-30 minutes is quite a long time to be without a seat, not everyone is a spring chicken anymore
I'm confident that anybody who needs a seat will be able to get one.
The seating layout on the 323s was horribly inefficient with the middle seats of the 3x3 banks normally unoccupied.
It would not surprise me at all if the number of seated passengers on a usual 730 trip will be higher than it would on a 323 despite having fewer seats.
TheTallOne
Member
Is the cross city 730 working the same services as yesterday?
D.K.TAYLOR
Member
- Joined
- 28 Apr 2014
- Messages
- 749
TheTallOne
Member
Cheers.
BlythPower
Member
730008 partnered with 009 and also 022 on the Wolves-Walsall services.
Mordac
Established Member
Been on yet yesterday. Had meant to get it into work in the morning but missed that one. Unexpectedly got it coming back home from a jazz night in the evening! Impressed with the space, will be much nicer to stand in. I don't mean this jokingly, the 323s are a pain when things get wedged. There's a lot more space to spread.
That carpet is going to be filthy soon.
Personally thought the seats were an improvement. The 323 seats are not that comfortable, but YMMV. I'm a bisexual so can't sit properly anywhere.
That carpet is going to be filthy soon.
Personally thought the seats were an improvement. The 323 seats are not that comfortable, but YMMV. I'm a bisexual so can't sit properly anywhere.
JW4
Member
meld3
Member
6.5 years since they were ordered;
3.5 years since the first was unveiled;
One finally runs in service on its intended route.....
Meanwhile, China opened:
41,000 miles of motorway (2017 > 2022)
12,500 miles of High Speed Railway (2017 > 2023)
"Can do" attitude Vs "Can't do that because" attitude.....
3.5 years since the first was unveiled;
One finally runs in service on its intended route.....
Meanwhile, China opened:
41,000 miles of motorway (2017 > 2022)
12,500 miles of High Speed Railway (2017 > 2023)
"Can do" attitude Vs "Can't do that because" attitude.....
TheTallOne
Member
Used to make be a bit anxious trying to get off the train at say Selly Oak. So many people crammed into the aisles back in the day.
Will be glad for the extra room it gives. Although will have to see how the seating issue pans out. Will just have to make sure I'm first on the train, stand in the right place!
Silverlinky
Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2012
- Messages
- 689
What proportion of the day will 402 seats on a 6 car not be enough? I would assume that with the increased standing room some passengers who only make 5/10 minute hops might actually choose to stand up and have plenty of room to do so now.
Its a similar scenario to when the 730's replaced the 319's down south. There were fears that losing 520 seats on an 8 car 319 and replacing them with 402 seats on a 6 car 730 would cause no end of problems, it hasn't panned out like that though and those fears were unfounded.
Its a similar scenario to when the 730's replaced the 319's down south. There were fears that losing 520 seats on an 8 car 319 and replacing them with 402 seats on a 6 car 730 would cause no end of problems, it hasn't panned out like that though and those fears were unfounded.
TheTallOne
Member
I think, with hybrid working and other cultural changes, it'll never be as busy as it was in 2019 and prior. Should be fine.
Although perhaps in a few decades cultures will change again and more people will travel by train rather than car.
Or AI will take all the jobs and no one will need to commute, but that's a different topic I think!
Not sure about the X-City South but from experience, the North part of the route usually thins out by Sutton and Four Oaks in the Lichfield direction so standing would be for 20 minutes tops generally.
Not sure carpet was the right choice, flooring should have been vinyl/lino...
DaveyJones
Member
People are standing on 6-car 323s from Northfield/Kings Norton in the peaks
trundlewagon
Member
Seems to hold up fine on the 172s and they get pretty wedged at peak times
Most of whom will be going as far as New Street so we're only talking 15-20 minute journeys, that happens on the tube day in day out.
I did think the same, but the 323s always look dirtier than the 172s, maybe the 323s aren't cleaned to the same standard as the 172s..
TheTallOne
Member
And quite a lot of people get off at university, so there's a good chance of getting a seat for the University to Birmingham (or beyond) bit.
DaveyJones
Member
It's 008 and 009 again today
JW4
Member
Running as a double 730 as planned today
jhy44
Member
I know this has been said many times, but just to reiterate; I don't think many people of us locals will mourn the loss of the 3x2 seating on the 323s even though it's resulting in fewer total seats.
The seats were incredibly narrow, meaning those sat in the row of 3 ended up having overlapping legs and shoulders; wholly inappropriate for strangers. I would rather stand than sit on one of those rows of 3 no matter how long I was travelling for. So would many others; the middle seats would often be left empty. Even if someone boarded the train and did want to get to that empty middle seat, the narrow passageways don't allow for two people to pass so when trains are busy and people were standing, people couldn't even access them anyway and would be left crammed in to the door area looking longingly at that empty seat they couldn't reach. The 3x2 design is not suitable for such busy metro-style trains, I feel that they are only really suited to limited-stop commuter services; where volumes are high and journey times long meaning seat numbers must be maximised, but stops are few so that the increased dwell / stopping times caused are less of a cumulative issue. Not at all for metro inner-city like the CrossCity.
I think the 323s also had the slowest boarding/dwell times of any metro-style train I've seen in the UK due to just how very narrow and constricted the passageways and door areas were, wholly unsuitable for the service which stops so frequently and has such huge passengers numbers. It would take an age for people seated deep in the train to try and make their way out of the crowds blocking the passageways and doorways as people standing would have to step off the train, let others off, then they get back on, then the new passengers waiting to alight to board etc. It easily could lead to 4 minute dwell times per station. Multiply this by 5 as it happens at each consecutive inner-city station and you can see how the line would so easily amass sizeable delays which spread to the other WMR and CrossCountry services also using the line. This will be the real benefit of the 730s I reckon; all that standing space and much fewer obstructions will allow for the crowds of people in rush hour to free-flow on and off and around so much more easily, and will hugely improve dwell times and reliability.
Excited to try one of these out at some point this week!
The seats were incredibly narrow, meaning those sat in the row of 3 ended up having overlapping legs and shoulders; wholly inappropriate for strangers. I would rather stand than sit on one of those rows of 3 no matter how long I was travelling for. So would many others; the middle seats would often be left empty. Even if someone boarded the train and did want to get to that empty middle seat, the narrow passageways don't allow for two people to pass so when trains are busy and people were standing, people couldn't even access them anyway and would be left crammed in to the door area looking longingly at that empty seat they couldn't reach. The 3x2 design is not suitable for such busy metro-style trains, I feel that they are only really suited to limited-stop commuter services; where volumes are high and journey times long meaning seat numbers must be maximised, but stops are few so that the increased dwell / stopping times caused are less of a cumulative issue. Not at all for metro inner-city like the CrossCity.
I think the 323s also had the slowest boarding/dwell times of any metro-style train I've seen in the UK due to just how very narrow and constricted the passageways and door areas were, wholly unsuitable for the service which stops so frequently and has such huge passengers numbers. It would take an age for people seated deep in the train to try and make their way out of the crowds blocking the passageways and doorways as people standing would have to step off the train, let others off, then they get back on, then the new passengers waiting to alight to board etc. It easily could lead to 4 minute dwell times per station. Multiply this by 5 as it happens at each consecutive inner-city station and you can see how the line would so easily amass sizeable delays which spread to the other WMR and CrossCountry services also using the line. This will be the real benefit of the 730s I reckon; all that standing space and much fewer obstructions will allow for the crowds of people in rush hour to free-flow on and off and around so much more easily, and will hugely improve dwell times and reliability.
Excited to try one of these out at some point this week!
Given the extent to which 3+2 seating was used on London commuter services which have always been way busier than anything in Brum or Manchester l must disagree with your comments in that respect.
If one takes your argument to it's logical conclusion then WMR should have bought 710s with longitudinal seating.
JW4
Member
730019 is the one on Wolves-Walsall duties today.
Just seen it at the bay at Wolverhampton
Just seen it at the bay at Wolverhampton
CharlieSpotted
Member
- Joined
- 21 May 2014
- Messages
- 732
Siri, show me someone who's never tried to get a 3 car 323 out of New Street at 6pm on a weekday...