Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[F Great Eastern]

Are the luggage racks above seats all the way to wall? On the 755s they are not and therefore had stuff falling down the back onto me on the! window seat.

 

[yorkie]

For discussion on the trains themselves, and their introduction, please continue to use this thread

Once we get regular diagrams, we can get a diagram thread posted in the forum section for diagrams (any volunteers to maintain a list in the opening post? If so please contact me)

To discuss future and past trips and travel experiences, please use: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/greater-anglia-flirt-travel-experiences.198088/

To discuss Norwich to London timetabling & performance, please use: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/norwich-to-london-timetabling-and-performance.198090/

 

[RailWonderer]

No

Are the luggage racks above seats all the way to wall? On the 755s they are not and therefore had stuff falling down the back onto me on the! window seat.

No, they’re the same ones with the gap as the 755s. Also I’m sat in coach G and the seats backing the electric area don’t have a middle armrest for some reason.

 

[trebor79]

@RailWonderer we are on the same service. Decent first impression, marred only by the antisocial twonk sat opposite me watching some terrible American sitcom (canned laughter every 2 seconds) without earphones.
I was surprised to see a big open area in the middle of the electrical gubbins tunnel on my way to and from the buffet.

 

[F Great Eastern]

No

No, they’re the same ones with the gap as the 755s. Also I’m sat in coach G and the seats backing the electric area don’t have a middle armrest for some reason.

That's a curious design choice, one I don't understand myself,, I assume it is so the coat hooks can be higher up?

 

[Domh245]

"Electric area"/"electrical gubbins tunnel" presumably being the area in the middle of the train (between coaches F & G)

 

[trebor79]

No

No, they’re the same ones with the gap as the 755s. Also I’m sat in coach G and the seats backing the electric area don’t have a middle armrest for some reason.

That's a curious design choice, one I don't understand myself,, I assume it is so the coat hooks can be higher up?

There is a fairly substantial lip to prevent stuff sliding off the shelf and down the gap. You must have been a bit unlucky.

 

[trebor79]

"Electric area"/"electrical gubbins tunnel" presumably being the area in the middle of the train (between coaches F & G)

Yes. As I understand it the maximum length FLIRT previously made was 6 coaches, and there's electrical equipment behind each cab. The 745 is essentially two 6 coach units couple together with the inner cans removed. I guess that explains the big empty section in the middle of the tunnels, it's where the driver's seat, desk etc would be.

 

[RailWonderer]

@RailWonderer we are on the same service. Decent first impression, marred only by the antisocial twonk sat opposite me watching some terrible American sitcom (canned laughter every 2 seconds) without earphones.
I was surprised to see a big open area in the middle of the electrical gubbins tunnel on my way to and from the buffet.

I had a woman on her computer and two people sleeping slumped on the table. What are the wingbacks on the chairs for?

 

[RailWonderer]

That's a curious design choice, one I don't understand myself,, I assume it is so the coat hooks can be higher up?

Yes and the seat reservation monitors are stuck below partly closing the gaps.

 

[dk1]

Looks like 006 will join 007 early next week. It really is happening all of a sudden

 

[86246]

Looks like 006 will join 007 early next week. It really is happening all of a sudden

Good to hear. Hopefully on a diagram that calls at Stowmarket more than twice a day !

 

[dk1]

Good to hear. Hopefully on a diagram that calls at Stowmarket more than twice a day !

They get plenty of connectional opportunities with Cambridge/Peterborough services as well as SX morning EMU starters.

 

[James James]

Yes. As I understand it the maximum length FLIRT previously made was 6 coaches, and there's electrical equipment behind each cab. The 745 is essentially two 6 coach units couple together with the inner cans removed. I guess that explains the big empty section in the middle of the tunnels, it's where the driver's seat, desk etc would be.

Looking at the drawings, there still seem to be cabinets there - or are they missing in the real thing? It's certainly not enough space for the cab because it's shorter, but it does look like they've basically taken the front and cut half it off based on the transformer positioning:
https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/feaemu0919d.pdf

That said, it's not the first unit > 6 cars and not the first one with extra powered bogies in the middle. PKP has had 8-car units for years, which has a similar normal-bogies-in-the-middle setup - BUT those bogies were unpowered and have seats above them. The SOB Flirt is also 8-car, but similar to the GA units has 2 powered bogies in the middle. (Arguably the SOB units are younger than the GA units, but they made it into regular service before them.) The Norwegian Flirts have also been around for years - and while they're only 5-cars, they also have 2 normal bogies in the middle, with one of those being powered.

 

[trebor79]

Looking at the drawings, there still seem to be cabinets there - or are they missing in the real thing? It's certainly not enough space for the cab because it's shorter, but it does look like they've basically taken the front and cut half it off based on the transformer positioning:
https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/feaemu0919d.pdf

Not sure. It certainly widens out, and by more (from memory) than that drawing suggests. I didn't linger, it's quite warm in there - actually I'd say the temperature of the whole train was a degree or two on the warm side of comfortable today.
Interesting drawing, definitely not as built. For one thing it only depicts one toilet.

 

[dk1]

Looking at the drawings, there still seem to be cabinets there - or are they missing in the real thing? It's certainly not enough space for the cab because it's shorter, but it does look like they've basically taken the front and cut half it off based on the transformer positioning:
https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/feaemu0919d.pdf

That said, it's not the first unit > 6 cars and not the first one with extra powered bogies in the middle. PKP has had 8-car units for years, which has a similar normal-bogies-in-the-middle setup - BUT those bogies were unpowered and have seats above them. The SOB Flirt is also 8-car, but similar to the GA units has 2 powered bogies in the middle. (Arguably the SOB units are younger than the GA units, but they made it into regular service before them.) The Norwegian Flirts have also been around for years - and while they're only 5-cars, they also have 2 normal bogies in the middle, with one of those being powered.

They are definitely based on 6-car units which was the most Stadler could offer. As said the middle is basically a modified cab end without the driving cab. Just two half sets joined together with an interior as specified by the purchaser.

 

[trebor79]

Looks like 006 will join 007 early next week. It really is happening all of a sudden

Good to hear.
I said after my first few trips on a 755 that they represented a massive step up on the rural routes, but was less convinced that the same would be true for the main line.
I think on balance I don't like the 745 as much as the Mk3s. Mainly because the seats in the Mk3s are very comfy (assuming you haven't sat on a knackered one), but also the 745 interior somehow feels a little stark.
But, the loco hauled sets were never going to last forever, so replacement was going to happen sooner or later. The 745 is definitely better than an 800 - better seats, nicer interior ambience, less annoying automated amounts.
Of all the potential trains that could have been procured, the 745 feels like the best of the bunch.
They also appear to be very well put together, like the 755s. No rattling panels etc.
I will miss the "proper" trains but I think the new fleet will serve the route well.
What do you prefer as a driver? Class 90 or one of the new units?

 

[dk1]

Good to hear.
I said after my first few trips on a 755 that they represented a massive step up on the rural routes, but was less convinced that the same would be true for the main line.
I think on balance I don't like the 745 as much as the Mk3s. Mainly because the seats in the Mk3s are very comfy (assuming you haven't sat on a knackered one), but also the 745 interior somehow feels a little stark.
But, the loco hauled sets were never going to last forever, so replacement was going to happen sooner or later. The 745 is definitely better than an 800 - better seats, nicer interior ambience, less annoying automated amounts.
Of all the potential trains that could have been procured, the 745 feels like the best of the bunch.
They also appear to be very well put together, like the 755s. No rattling panels etc.
I will miss the "proper" trains but I think the new fleet will serve the route well.
What do you prefer as a driver? Class 90 or one of the new units?

New units every time. The old order has been great but time to move on. Won't be missed by me. Not one for sentimentality.

 

[Railperf]

New units every time. The old order has been great but time to move on. Won't be missed by me. Not one for sentimentality.

Absolutely. The new trains are a pleasure to sit on. And must be a pleasure to drive. Yesterdays ran faultlessly. Looks like today's did too.
Arguably a nicer environment to move around and sit in than any other UK stock. Mk4's run them close, but I do love the openness and length of the train. So many seats. Must be amazing to drive. A lot less wheelslip in the wet, good acceleration and time recovery ability.

 

[Railperf]

Good to hear.
I said after my first few trips on a 755 that they represented a massive step up on the rural routes, but was less convinced that the same would be true for the main line.
I think on balance I don't like the 745 as much as the Mk3s. Mainly because the seats in the Mk3s are very comfy (assuming you haven't sat on a knackered one), but also the 745 interior somehow feels a little stark.
But, the loco hauled sets were never going to last forever, so replacement was going to happen sooner or later. The 745 is definitely better than an 800 - better seats, nicer interior ambience, less annoying automated amounts.
Of all the potential trains that could have been procured, the 745 feels like the best of the bunch.
They also appear to be very well put together, like the 755s. No rattling panels etc.
I will miss the "proper" trains but I think the new fleet will serve the route well.
What do you prefer as a driver? Class 90 or one of the new units?

I was on the Mark 3 set with two locked out coaches on Sunday. If Anglia stock had LNER seating, and interior styling - it would be a very very hard run thing. But the passenger entry/exit, the narrowness of the vestibules and inter coach connections make them feel small and poky.
Mark 4's better. But the old stock cannot compete as an overall package to the customer. I'm really really impressed.

 

[Railperf]

Good to hear. Hopefully on a diagram that calls at Stowmarket more than twice a day !

Are there any stations that the 745s cannot currently stop at due to slightly short platforms and ASDO being isolated at the moment?

 

[D365]

LinkedIn is not the first video platform that springs to mind, but I've found a video of 007 entering Liverpool Street here. However it does look like you need to be signed in.

 

[trebor79]

I was on the Mark 3 set with two locked out coaches on Sunday. If Anglia stock had LNER seating, and interior styling - it would be a very very hard run thing. But the passenger entry/exit, the narrowness of the vestibules and inter coach connections make them feel small and poky.
Mark 4's better. But the old stock cannot compete as an overall package to the customer. I'm really really impressed.

I think my numb backside must have made me a bit grumpy!
I am impressed by them, and I was trying to say and hope I managed to articulate that although there are aspects that are imperfect, they are terrific and better than I thought they might be.
Perhaps some of my reticence is just that they are *so* different and they kind of feel weird as a result, even though they are very good to travel in
I did like the fact that the table is better positioned for working, even on the aisle seat. Need arms like an ape to use a laptop in a Mk3 table aisle seat, even more so in first class.

 

[dk1]

Are there any stations that the 745s cannot currently stop at due to slightly short platforms and ASDO being isolated at the moment?

Can't think of any. None amongst the standard stops anyway.

 

[Railperf]

I still cannot get over just how long the train is and how many seats there are. Fantastic news for those who use it every day in rush hour. I used to commute in from Manningtree 15 years ago, and it was hard to get a seat even then!
In the end I often plumped for a 321 starting at Ipswich or Harwich despite them being slow and draughty. I used the IC sets in the evening when I could guarantee myself a seat!

 

[trebor79]

A lot less wheelslip in the wet, good acceleration and time recovery ability.

Indeed. We left Liv St 3 minutes late (seemed to be some issue with releasing the brakes, could hear air venting several times before we got underway. Lost a bit more time in the suburbs but arrived Colchester on time.
Arrived Ipswich 2 minutes early after a right time departure from Manningtree!
They don't go like a rocket like the 755s, but noticeably quicker acceleration than a hauled set.

You are right about the number of seats too, very welcome. It's surprising how busy these trains can be, even outside of the peaks. I don't think the train itself can be much longer than 9 Mk3 + 90 + DVT, though I guess more of that length is available for passenger use. Pleased to see proper wide luggage racks too rather than the stupid narrow things on an 800.

 

[F Great Eastern]

You are right about the number of seats too, very welcome. It's surprising how busy these trains can be, even outside of the peaks. I don't think the train itself can be much longer than 9 Mk3 + 90 + DVT, though I guess more of that length is available for passenger use. Pleased to see proper wide luggage racks too rather than the stupid narrow things on an 800.

Generally to me they are better in almost every way than an 800. This doesn't surprise me though because I've had good experiences with FLIRTS in many countries.

However the airline seats legroom on the FLIRTS is an abomination for a tall person.The aisle ones are bad enough with a niche that leaves your knees feeling claustrophobic, but the window ones with the ducting and the cantilever make a bad situation even worse. I'd rate the tip up seats better, although I'd obviously prefer a table seat or one with extra legroom which are fine.

Will try and give First Class a go at the weekend, do we know when/where 007 will be out on Saturday/Sunday? Has anyone sampled First Class? Looks a bit of a unique layout compared to what I've seen before, although I haven't seen photos of the whole First Class area such as the wheelchair area, weird there's photos of every other part online apart from that.

 

[Railperf]

They don't go like a rocket like the 755s, but noticeably quicker acceleration than a hauled set.

The 755/3s are indeed very quick..but crunching the numbers revealed that over a set distance the 745 with its lower power to weight ratio is only 10 secs slower from a start to two miles.
On each station to station section where 100mph running is utilised these gain at least 30 to 40 seconds - in some cases up to a minute on acceleration alone over the loco hauled sets especially on the adverse gradients.
Maybe the time gain is less on a dry day with 'tin rocket' on the front. But in the wet..Class 90 acceleration can really suffer.
And then there are the superior brakes - but drivers are sticking to their current braking points for the moment as they get used to them. The potential for some good time savings are there.

 

[TheEdge]

I don't think the train itself can be much longer than 9 Mk3 + 90 + DVT, though I guess more of that length is available for passenger use.

They are actually ever so slightly shorter than a full length (10 vehicle, 9 coaches) hauled set, by about 6 - 10ft. But as you rightly say you have almost two more vehicles worth of usable space.

I drove 007 into the depot last night and walking along it on the arrow straight reversing siding plays tricks on the eyes. There is a button on the desk that opens all the internal doors and with an unobstructed view from the buffet to the cab through 10 coaches you get an impressive example of a vanishing point.

 

[CC 72100]

A quick question for someone who hasn't kept up with all this:

Today 10th Jan are all the :00 and :30 fasts from London booked 90 + Mark 3 sets?