Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[Trainbike46]

Not recently…..

805/807 from Hitachi is going way better than the 810s...

 

[class442]

805/807 from Hitachi is going way better than the 810s...

Likewise with the 730s from Alstom, much better introduction than the 701s.

I think as has been discussed, the boutique nature of the 810s and 701s is a factor in why their introduction is much worse than other products from the same manufacturers.

 

[Aspen90]

I’ll collect my winnings and reinvest them into entry to service being May 2027.

Snap! I said this didn’t I not long ago!

 

[QSK19]

Snap! I said this didn’t I not long ago!

You did indeed! Hope you found your betting slip too

 

[Energy]

I think as has been discussed, the boutique nature of the 810s and 701s is a factor in why their introduction is much worse than other products from the same manufacturers.

701 delays are due to Bombardier's near-complete abandonment of quality control during COVID, outsourcing software to another country, and poor cab design compared to the class 707s that drivers were used to.

810 problems appeared to be linked to unnecessary redesigns of AT300 parts. It's noticeable that the more Hitachi Rail Italy (ex-AnsaldoBreda) work on a project, the worse it seems to be. The 802s built by them are of noticeably worse quality, and the design work they've done on 810s has clearly not gone well. I'm not sure how to describe it, but the 810 saga has an AnsaldoBreda vibe to it.

 

[vuzzeho]

Not recently…..

Depending on what you count as recently, the trains HS2's trains will be based on, the Frecciarossa 1000, was built by Hitachi Rail Italy and Alstom working together (well, technically AnsaldoBreda and Bombardier at first) and was an incredibly smooth entry into service, according to Trenitalia.

 

[duffield]

Being suggested now that 180s are to return to the MML...

https://x.com/Clinnick1/status/1937841340991287552

Not sure how much I believe this, but it would be very funny.

If some of the 222s do have to go, it might be one of the least worst, most practical solutions which still maintains a full timetable with about the same number of seats (when they don't break down).

 

[D365]

Likewise with the 730s from Alstom, much better introduction than the 701s.

I think as has been discussed, the boutique nature of the 810s and 701s is a factor in why their introduction is much worse than other products from the same manufacturers.

This is a brilliantly succinct summary of events.

 

[londonmidland]

I can’t help but feel like we’re going to get the short end of the straw and just end up with a reduced timetable, instead of getting replacements for the 222s once they start to leave. Slower and less frequent services is something I can, unfortunately, see happening.

We’ve already been shafted so many times in the past so it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if this was to happen.

 

[Trainman40083]

I can’t help but feel like we’re going to get the short end of the straw and just end up with a reduced timetable, instead of getting replacements for the 222s once they start to leave. Slower and less frequent services is something I can, unfortunately, see happening.

We’ve already been shafted so many times in the past so it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if this was to happen.

I guess EMR could have even more 180s if GC had some more 221 units that have come off West Coast. At least the GC staff know those unit (well on the Yorkshire services).

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Where will the 180s come from ?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Where will the 180s come from ?

I think there's a few sat in Ely.

 

[duffield]

Where will the 180s come from ?

I understand there are four stored units (180109-180111 and 180113), with apparently no current plans for their use, although I have no idea if they are fit for use or can be made so quickly.

 

[Trainman40083]

I think there's a few sat in Ely.

I thought at least two of them at Ely, were in a bit of a state... Didn't one got to Alstom site at Widnes?

 

[driverd]

As far as I can tell, the current barrier to progress is ASLEF at EMR. As this all centres around a pay deal for a training package, I would suggest any traction that isn't a 222 would likely just end up sat somewhere, doing naff all.

 

[londonmidland]

How ‘different’ are the 221s to the 222s operational side? They obviously can’t work in pairs but in terms of training on them, do they share any similarities which would help speed up the training process?

A part of me is saying that they’d be treated as a completely different train, which you’d need training from scratch(?)

 

[Jacob Porrett]

If they do use the 180s in the interim, how many would be needed to cover for the missing 810s?

 

[31160]

If they do use the 180s in the interim, how many would be needed to cover for the missing 810s?

Depends on how many working fire extinguishers they have on hand

 

[duffield]

Depends on how many working fire extinguishers they have on hand

To be fair, the one I was on last time didn't catch fire.

It didn't have a chance, because they couldn't release the brakes for departure at Nottingham.

And then they kept us locked in just long enough for us to watch the next (222) service depart for London from the opposite platform.

 

[baz962]

As far as I can tell, the current barrier to progress is ASLEF at EMR. As this all centres around a pay deal for a training package, I would suggest any traction that isn't a 222 would likely just end up sat somewhere, doing naff all.

Nope. Rest day work has been sanctioned again. Drivers are voting on a deal that has been recommended , but regardless driver's can't refuse to train on them.

 

[D365]

If they do use the 180s in the interim, how many would be needed to cover for the missing 810s?

Given that there's only four 180s currently off-lease - and that none of the ten Grand Central 180s will be available imminently - your question is rather academic.

However there is a thread specifically for discussion of stop-gap options to cover for delayed Class 810 units.

 

[driverd]

Nope. Rest day work has been sanctioned again. Drivers are voting on a deal that has been recommended , but regardless driver's can't refuse to train on them.

Sure, but usually the training package has to be agreed by the union, unless legislation has changed in the last few years?

In other words, if the pay deal gets voted no (which I've heard is likely), no one gets trained without the union agreeing - unless something has changed?

 

[baz962]

Sure, but usually the training package has to be agreed by the union, unless legislation has changed in the last few years?

In other words, if the pay deal gets voted no (which I've heard is likely), no one gets trained without the union agreeing - unless something has changed?

An already pre existing agreement here. Not sure about other TOCs .

 

[bunnahabhain]

Has anybody posted this in here yet? You can rename them Hitachi Rail Italy, but it doesn't hide the fact that they're really AnsaldoBreda underneath their Scooby Doo mask.

 

[Trainbike46]

Has anybody posted this in here yet? You can rename them Hitachi Rail Italy, but it doesn't hide the fact that they're really AnsaldoBreda underneath their Scooby Doo mask.

I love how the preview picture just says "Buy Trains"

 

[joieman]

Has anybody posted this in here yet? You can rename them Hitachi Rail Italy, but it doesn't hide the fact that they're really AnsaldoBreda underneath their Scooby Doo mask.

What does the small text on the left read?

 

[Cach17]

What does the small text on the left read?

"THEIR FOOD MAY BE GOOD, BUT..."

 

[Mikw]

Will we ever see these units? I'm beginning to doubt it.

 

[800001]

Will we ever see these units? I'm beginning to doubt it.

Obviously we will.

 

[liamf656]

Will we ever see these units? I'm beginning to doubt it.

I think you know the answer to that is yes.