Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[QSK19]

The almost complete 810 looks nothing like its original artwork with the more curved 800-like yellow end, this is great as it seems constructed as a completely different product like the 395, have to say the bronze ends do look beautiful with the aubergine purple, a lovely mix there.

Sometimes product designs do evolve over time, then maybe future yet to be built 80xs (after 805 & 807) could take on a similar look to the 810 such as the headlamps, angular nose shape etc? The 810 could possibly be the template & first of a new refreshed design for the AT300 platform.

I think the original artwork was just used as an example to highlight that EMR had ordered AT300s - it was simply a case of super-imposing EMR’s colours onto an AT300.

Whilst the 810 is bespoke to EMR, I certainly agree that it looks great and can be used as a template for any operators who want/need 24m cars as opposed to 26m. I doubt that the 810 nose would be applied to all AT300s going forward - it’s what was needed in order to “squash” everything into a shorter car length.

 

[WizCastro197]

The seats are now at Leicester (hard to miss, but outside WHSmith) for anyone who wants to try them now. They are hard but at least there is no protruding metal bar in the seat cushion like the 222s.

 

[Mzzzs]

Tried them a few weeks ago.
The seats seem harder than the seats on the other 800s.
The shape is better.
One plug and USB is a poor choice should be at least two of one but ideally two of each.

 

[eastwestdivide]

The seats are now at Leicester…

First or standard?

 

[WizCastro197]

First or standard?

Standard only, sorry for the lack of clarification.

 

[QSK19]

Tried them a few weeks ago.
The seats seem harder than the seats on the other 800s.
The shape is better.
One plug and USB is a poor choice should be at least two of one but ideally two of each.

Agreed that the seats seem to be hard; but hopefully they soften a little as they get bedded in.

And the one plug/USB per two seats is my main criticism - just seems a little penny-pinching considering the huge fanfare EMR & DGDesign have made over these seats.

 

[WizCastro197]

One plug and USB is a poor choice should be at least two of one but ideally two of each.

Ever since now less Apple chargers are regular USB, and now a rapidly being converted to USB-C.

 

[mfranjic]

.. I took some time and browsed this thread to see if I could find some technical data on the British Rail Class 810 'Aurora', bi-mode multiple unit being constructed by Hitachi Rail for East Midlands Railway (EMR). That what I was familiar with so far is:

Legend:

D -driving cab; P -pantograph; T -trailer car; M -motor car; b -bogie; c -car; d -diesel engine; e -electric motor; DEMU -Diesel-Electric; EMU -Electric; BEMU -Battery; HMU -Hybrid; S -standard class; C -composite (standard & first class); F -first class

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type: BR Class 810 'Aurora' bi-mode multiple unit

Formation: 5-car / 2M3T: DPTS(d) + MS(d+e) + TS + MC(d+e) + DPTF(d)

Wheel arrangement: 2-2 + Bo-Bo + 2-2 + Bo-Bo + 2-2

Electric system: 25 kV 50 Hz AC OHLE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.. Since I haven't found the exact data on its traction motors (at least not any linked to an official source), I thougt this train's drivetrain system might have some in common with the Hitachi 'Blues' train with tri-mode drive - Serial Hybrid drivetrain, derived from the Masaccio platform, intended for the regional traffic and made in two versions, i.e. with 3 cars - HTR.312; wheel arrangement: Bo-(2)(2)-Bo and 4 cars - HTR.412; wheel arrangement: Bo-(2)(2)(2)-Bo, on which the traction is ensured by 4 (four) 3-phase Hitachi Copper Rotor IM rated at 375 kW / 503 hp / 510 PS.

The Hitachi Blues train's MTU Series 1600 Power Pack main machines are:

● MTU 12V 1600 R91, 4-stroke, turbocharged, diesel engine (eng. architecture: 90°V 12-cylinder; eng. displacement: 21.042 ccm / 1.284,1 cu in * bore: 122,0 mm / 4,8 in, stroke: 150,0 mm / 5,9 in), CR: 17,5:1, rated at 736 kW / 987 hp / 1.001 PS at 1.900 rpm

● Traktionssysteme Austria GmbH (TSA) TGE 59A-43-4 (736 kW / 987 hp / 1.001 PS at 1.900 rpm; 2.100 V; 214 A; 62,9 Hz), 3-phase traction alternator
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type: Hitachi 'Blues' HTR.412 tri-mode multiple unit

Formation: 4-car / 2M2T: DM(d+e) + PT + T + DM(d+e)

Wheel arrangement: Bo-(2)(2)(2)-Bo

Electric system: 3 kV DC OHLE

Installed power: 2c x 1d x 736 kW + 2c x 2e (2b x 2e) x 375 kW

1.472 kW / 1.974 hp / 2.001 PS (DEMU) + 1.500 kW / 2.012 hp / 2.039 PS (EMU) + 890 kW / 1.194 hp / 1.210 PS (BEMU)

* the sum of these powers: DEMU, EMU and BEMU represents the total installed power, however the power that can be transferred (in the different modes) to the driving axles is limited by the power of the traction electric motors

………..

……………..…....................... Tri-mode drive - Serial Hybrid drivetrain
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

..If the BR Class 810 'Aurora' bi-mode multiple unit, by a chance, has the same (it might be derated) traction motors as Hitachi 'Blues' tri-mode multiple units, then the installed power on 'Aurora' would be:

Installed power: 4c x 1d x 736 kW + 2c x 4e (4b x 2e) x 375 kW

2.944 kW / 3.948 hp / 4.003 PS (DEMU) + 3.000 kW / 4.023 hp / 4.080 PS (EMU)


..On the Hitachi British Rail Class 802 bi-mode multiple unit on which the traction is ensured by 12 (twelve) / 20 (twenty) 3-phase Hitachi Copper Rotor IM rated at 226 kW / 303 hp / 307 PS, MTU Series 1600 Power Pack main machines are:

● MTU 12V 1600 R80LP, 4-stroke, turbocharged, diesel engine (eng. architecture: 90°V 12-cylinder; eng. displacement: 21.042 ccm / 1.284,1 cu in * bore: 122,0 mm / 4,8 in, stroke: 150,0 mm / 5,9 in), CR: 17,5:1, rated at 700 kW / 939 hp / 952 PS at 1.900 rpm

● Traktionssysteme Austria GmbH (TSA) TGE 59-43-4 (700 kW / 939 hp / 952 PS at 1.900 rpm; 1.950 V; 214 A; 62,7 Hz), 3-phase traction alternator
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type: GWR Class 802/0 bi-mode multiple unit

Formation: 5-car / 3M2T: DPTS + M(d+e)S + M(d+e)S + M(d+e)C + DPTF

Wheel arrangement: 2-2 + 3 x Bo-Bo + 2-2

Electric system: 25 kV 50 Hz AC overhead

Installed power: 3c x 1d x 700 kW + 3c x 4e (6b x 2e) x 226 kW

2.100 kW / 2.816 hp / 2.855 PS (DEMU) + 2.712 kW / 3.637 hp / 3.687 PS (EMU)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type: GWR Class 802/1 bi-mode multiple unit

Formation: 9-car / 5M4T: DPTS + M(d+e)S + M(d+e)S + TS + M(d+e)S + TS + M(d+e)S + M(d+e)F + DPTF

Wheel arrangement: 2-2 + 2 x Bo-Bo + 2-2 + Bo-Bo + 2-2 + 2 x Bo-Bo + 2-2

Electric system: 25 kV 50 Hz AC overhead

Installed power: 5c x 1d x 700 kW + 5c x 4e (10b x 2e) x 226 kW

3.500 kW / 4.694 hp / 4.759 PS (DEMU) + 4.520 kW / 6.061 hp / 6.145 PS (EMU)

* the sum of these powers: DEMU and EMU represents the total installed power, however the power that can be transferred (in the different modes) to the driving axles is limited by the power of the traction electric motors

…………..

………………………… ...................... Bi-mode drivetrain
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..Under the agreement from December 2020, Hitachi Rail and Eversholt Rail Ltd replaced one of the under-floor diesel engines on a 5-car GWR Class 802/0 bi-mode train (launched by GWR in August 2018) with a battery, creating a tri-mode hybrid train, expecting fuel savings of up to 20%. The train will be able to operate solely on battery power when entering and leaving the 15 non-electrified stations on the route, reducing pollution and noise. The battery will be able to recharge while operating under electrification, or within 10 to 15 minutes while static. In the meantime Hitachi Rail and Eversholt Rail Ltd have proceeded to the advanced phases for designing and engineering an electric-diesel-battery (tri-mode) train.

..Hitachi Rail will draw on its own expertise developed in Japan, as well as working with Sunderland-based Hyperdrive Innovation Ltd (Turntide Technologies), which Hitachi Rail signed an agreement with in July 2020 to create and develop battery packs for mass production at Hyperdrive’s HYVE facility. Hitachi Rail and Eversholt Rail Ltd say projected improvements in battery technology, particularly in power output and charging, could allow more diesel engines to be replaced incrementally, with a fully electric-battery inter-city train capable of travelling the full 191 km / 119 mi between London and Penzance possible by the late 2040s …

..Kind regards

…….Mario

 

[RailWonderer]

Anyone know why the Meridians are always so dirty and are these new 810s going to be kept on the same (seemingly non existent) cleaning regimen?

 

[WesternLancer]

Anyone know why the Meridians are always so dirty and are these new 810s going to be kept on the same (seemingly non existent) cleaning regimen?

is that inside or outside (or both....)

 

[RailWonderer]

is that inside or outside (or both....)

Both obviously. Besides some seat covers being more grey and dirty than red and clean, the rubber window sills are letting in water and are grimy. I don’t understand how EMT (as they ran the route longest) could have let them go to pot that way. That said some of it is down to Bombardier Belgium’s build quality.

 

[Spartacus]

Both obviously. Besides some seat covers being more grey and dirty than red and clean, the rubber window sills are letting in water and are grimy. I don’t understand how EMT (as they ran the route longest) could have let them go to pot that way. That said some of it is down to Bombardier Belgium’s build quality.

Dare I say that with their future lives with EMR being short they've minimal incentive to keep them up to a high standard, it happens with most fleets, saves a bit of money and makes the new stock look good by comparison, the problems are mostly encountered by whoever gets them next, just look at the 360s that run the Corby services. Plus their last refurbishment was 11/12 years ago, more than half their lifespan, so they're bound to be getting a bit worn down.

If any do go to XC after I'd be surprised if any get anything major done to them first either, especially given the condition of their own 220/221 fleet.

I'm not sure if anyone's seen this or not, a tender for storage for 810 & 222s.

Class 810 and Class 222 Vehicle Storage [Tender Notice]

The contract is for the storage of up to 17, 5 car Class 810 vehicles prior to entry into service. ... A Tender Notice by Abellio East Midlands. Value £900K.

bidstats.uk

 

[WesternLancer]

Dare I say that with their future lives with EMR being short they've minimal incentive to keep them up to a high standard, it happens with most fleets, saves a bit of money and makes the new stock look good by comparison, the problems are mostly encountered by whoever gets them next, just look at the 360s that run the Corby services. Plus their last refurbishment was 11/12 years ago, more than half their lifespan, so they're bound to be getting a bit worn down.

No doubt this is correct - but always angers me that the passengers don't get to pay cheaper or discounted fares as a result of the poor quality experience provided by such decline (or money saved by the operator on cleaning) - plus also pointless longer term as if they are due to be cascaded then a new operator needs to have stock that is in an acceptable condition for the new operator's passengers who are expected to use it. DfT ought to get a grip on this.

Both obviously. Besides some seat covers being more grey and dirty than red and clean, the rubber window sills are letting in water and are grimy. I don’t understand how EMT (as they ran the route longest) could have let them go to pot that way. That said some of it is down to Bombardier Belgium’s build quality.

They have got noticeably worse since EMR took over in my opinion - tho of course some years have gone by since then wear and tear wise.

Not that EMR have done anything at a with the interior condition of any of their fleet, despite promises made at the time of franchise change which were presumably endorsed by DfT, who must have since advised them not to do anything about it.

 

[Spartacus]

Given they're ROSCO owned I'm not sure what the DfT would, or could do about it. If they were owned by EMR themselves they might have more of a vested interest in keeping them in good condition so they could get more interest in someone taking them off their hands. When they go back to the ROSCO they just wash their hands of them.

 

[Meerkat]

No doubt this is correct - but always angers me that the passengers don't get to pay cheaper or discounted fares as a result of the poor quality experience provided by such decline

I’d keep that idea quiet as what they would actually do is put the prices up a lot when you get new the trains!

 

[WesternLancer]

Given they're ROSCO owned I'm not sure what the DfT would, or could do about it. If they were owned by EMR themselves they might have more of a vested interest in keeping them in good condition so they could get more interest in someone taking them off their hands. When they go back to the ROSCO they just wash their hands of them.

Well doesn't DfT authorise the refurbs of stock as part of franchise (or now direct awards) process - as the cost of it must be factored into that - surely the ROSCO does not want them back in tatty condition so that must be factored in to the lease price paid surely?

I’d keep that idea quiet as what they would actually do is put the prices up a lot when you get new the trains!

Well, they will do it anyway I fear...

 

[STINT47]

One thing that could be done forlittle cost is to give the Meridians a trip through the carriage washer. The external grime and dirt on them has definitely got worse since EMR took over

 

[Rob F]

These are the first 80x where there are more engines than driven vehicles. How does this work? Do all the engines feed a common ‘power bus’ or is each driven bogie supplied by an individual engine? I think on current 80x each engine only powers the vehicle it is mounted on BICBW.

 

[Halish Railway]

These are the first 80x where there are more engines than driven vehicles. How does this work? Do all the engines feed a common ‘power bus’ or is each driven bogie supplied by an individual engine? I think on current 80x each engine only powers the vehicle it is mounted on BICBW.

It would be the same common power bus that is used by the current collected by the pantograph when used.

One thing I have noticed when I've travelled on a motorised 802 carriage with the engine turned off is that the motors weren't audible either, so the power generated by the Diesel engines isn't necessarily always distributed equally amongst the motors.

 

[Rob F]

I was informed that the power from the engines in existing 80x is never distributed and only serves the powered vehicle itself. They could do the same on the 810 if 1 bogie on the powered vehicle was run from the local engine and the other bogie was powered by the engine in the adjacent vehicle. I was just asking if anyone knew if this was actually the case.

 

[tsyxa]

Dare I say that with their future lives with EMR being short they've minimal incentive to keep them up to a high standard, it happens with most fleets, saves a bit of money and makes the new stock look good by comparison, the problems are mostly encountered by whoever gets them next, just look at the 360s that run the Corby services. Plus their last refurbishment was 11/12 years ago, more than half their lifespan, so they're bound to be getting a bit worn down.

If any do go to XC after I'd be surprised if any get anything major done to them first either, especially given the condition of their own 220/221 fleet.

I'm not sure if anyone's seen this or not, a tender for storage for 810 & 222s.

Class 810 and Class 222 Vehicle Storage [Tender Notice]

The contract is for the storage of up to 17, 5 car Class 810 vehicles prior to entry into service. ... A Tender Notice by Abellio East Midlands. Value £900K.

bidstats.uk

Delivery: To 16th March 2024 (est)

When it says ‘to 16th March’, does that mean delivery will start by that date or delivery will be complete by that date?

 

[Skymonster]

I'm not sure if anyone's seen this or not, a tender for storage for 810 & 222s.

Class 810 and Class 222 Vehicle Storage [Tender Notice]

The contract is for the storage of up to 17, 5 car Class 810 vehicles prior to entry into service. ... A Tender Notice by Abellio East Midlands. Value £900K.

bidstats.uk

Super… Not only already late, but now potentially up to half the fleet going into storage for a while Mind you, I’m not sure they’ll get many bidders - there can’t be too many sites around with 32ft high fencing!

 

[QSK19]

Super… Not only already late, but now potentially up to half the fleet going into storage for a while Mind you, I’m not sure they’ll get many bidders - there can’t be too many sites around with 32ft high fencing!

It’ll probably go like how the bidding for the EMR franchise went - a late bid from what eventually turned out to be the only bidder

 

[Meerkat]

Super… Not only already late, but now potentially up to half the fleet going into storage for a while Mind you, I’m not sure they’ll get many bidders - there can’t be too many sites around with 32ft high fencing!

Ignoring the 10m fences (was it supposed to be 10ft?) how many places can do the warm-storage spec - its pretty demanding? Crofton??
Doesn't give any timescales*. Seems a lot of money to be very short term??
They are pretty tight on space aren't they, so presumably limitations on how many they can bring into service at once whilst keeping the service running with the old trains.

*just noticed that it does say a 1 year duration.

 

[dereksingh291]

are the 810s due to enter service in early 2024?

 

[DannyMich2018]

are the 810s due to enter service in early 2024?

I'd say more likely mid 2024 at least realistically for entry into service.

 

[Spartacus]

Super… Not only already late, but now potentially up to half the fleet going into storage for a while Mind you, I’m not sure they’ll get many bidders - there can’t be too many sites around with 32ft high fencing!

I guess it all depends on how crew training and fleet introduction/testing goes. At best it could just mean they they expect delivery to be quicker than they can train crews up.

 

[Kneedown]

I guess it all depends on how crew training and fleet introduction/testing goes. At best it could just mean they they expect delivery to be quicker than they can train crews up.

Not to mention until the Etches Park upgrade is completed.

 

[43066]

I'd say more likely mid 2024 at least realistically for entry into service.

It does seem to keep slipping back.

 

[QSK19]

It does seem to keep slipping back.

Yes it indeed does and I wish it wouldn’t; but as most who are familiar with EMR know, there is arguably no rush given that the 222s (and 180s) have no home to go to post-EMR. I would go for a complete guess that all will be in service by May 2025.

Nevertheless, let’s hope the old phrase “good things come to those who wait” rings true and that the 810s are of the highest standards that EMR’s IC users deserve.