Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[westcoaster]

Ah good, some progress!

Though I will add that Tower Gateway is a good deal further south than what you probably meant to say (i.e. Scratchwood London Gateway).

Oops my bad.

 

[meowtrain]

With Avanti 805s entering service today, I’ve noticed that the usual dot matrix boards at the end of the carriages have been replaced by LCD screens. Does anyone know if the 810s will have this aswell?

From this render screenshot of the interior that’s up on EMR’s website, it looks like they’ll have LCD screens, or at least not the green dot matrix ones!

 

[londonmidland]

The green dot matrix displays looked so out of date on the earlier IETs. Why did the DfT spec them with these when LCD displays were already the norm? Cost cutting by any chance?

 

[Energy]

The green dot matrix displays looked so out of date on the earlier IETs. Why did the DfT spec them with these when LCD displays were already the norm? Cost cutting by any chance?

IEP was a long process, they would have been specced a long time ago. I suspect it wasn't changed on the 802s as they favoured quick time to enter service.

 

[QSK19]

From this render screenshot of the interior that’s up on EMR’s website, it looks like they’ll have LCD screens, or at least not the green dot matrix ones!

Don’t forget that a render is exactly that, a render - we may be pleasantly surprised or bitterly disappointed with the outcome.

Wouldn’t be surprised if penny-pinching has gone on in some areas though - a lot of effort (and no doubt expenditure) has gone into the seating that there are probably cutbacks somewhere else. Wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve despec’ed the PIS, for example.

 

[800001]

Don’t forget that a render is exactly that, a render - we may be pleasantly surprised or bitterly disappointed with the outcome.

Wouldn’t be surprised if penny-pinching has gone on in some areas though - a lot of effort (and no doubt expenditure) has gone into the seating that there are probably cutbacks somewhere else. Wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve despec’ed the PIS, for example.

It does have LCD screens provided by MOOVA.
Also other screens at end of carriage similar to the Avanti fleet.

 

[WAB]

Whilst they are very nice trains, it is annoying when EMR talk about them, as they can't really go to any of the major East Midlands cities.

The 222s? or the 810s?

 

[QSK19]

Whilst they are very nice trains, it is annoying when EMR talk about them, as they can't really go to any of the major East Midlands cities.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2024 ==

The 222s? or the 810s?

Having looked at the previous posts, the 360s were mentioned; so maybe the poster referred to them seeing as they can’t go north of Kettering?

 

[Yew]

Having looked at the previous posts, the 360s were mentioned; so maybe the poster referred to them seeing as they can’t go north of Kettering?

Indeed, they are nice, and ride rather smoothly, but I have raised the concern about service between Nottingham and Luton Airport, and had customer service deflect with the improvements to services between Corby and London; a route that doesn't serve any East Midlands cities, and spends most of its time outside the East Midlands.

It's a clear improvement in service there, but unfortunately the service from East Midlands cities to London, in terms of Frequency, Capacity, First Class Offering and unit comfort is clearly diminished from this time last decade.

 

[800001]

810001 is now back at Etches Park having work on its GU engines.

 

[Skymonster]

810001 is now back at Etches Park having work on its GU engines.

Presumably its gone back north this evening:

Realtime Trains | 5Q34 1751 Etches Park Sdgs to Merchant Park Sidings | 10/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q34 1751 departure from Etches Park Sdgs to Merchant Park Sidings on 10/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q34 17:51 Etches Park Sidings to Merchant Park Sidings

 

[800001]

Presumably its gone back north this evening:

Realtime Trains | 5Q34 1751 Etches Park Sdgs to Merchant Park Sidings | 10/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q34 1751 departure from Etches Park Sdgs to Merchant Park Sidings on 10/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Correct.

 

[Snow1964]

Rock Rail East Midlands has filed its accounts for Jan-Dec 2023

ROCK RAIL EAST MIDLANDS PLC filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

ROCK RAIL EAST MIDLANDS PLC - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

Looks like Hitachi has paid £15.29m in liquidated damages for deliveries behind schedule

At 31/12/23 the cost of the assets under construction (the 810 fleet) was £301m

So looks like Hitachi have effectively lost 5% of contract value so far, as late penalties

In accounts note 19 says a variation to lease has been agreed, and now no lease payments due until units accepted

 

[QSK19]

Looks like 004 has left Newton Aycliffe and 007 put in an appearance when being towed. Interesting to see a couple of others with pans up.

Video on YouTube here:

Hopefully somebody will be able to post a video of 001 (or even 004) moving in electric mode at some point!

Finally on the note of a couple of the trains sitting there with pans up, is it some form of static electric mode testing or merely so that they have power without consuming diesel?

 

[800001]

Looks like 004 has left Newton Aycliffe and 007 put in an appearance when being towed. Interesting to see a couple of others with pans up.

Video on YouTube here:

Hopefully somebody will be able to post a video of 001 (or even 004) moving in electric mode at some point!

Finally on the note of a couple of the trains sitting there with pans up, is it some form of static electric mode testing or merely so that they have power without consuming diesel?

Static testing takes place in the sidings to the right as it’s only a couple of metres long the OHl.

810001 and 810003 are the other two EMR units.

 

[RailWonderer]

It's a clear improvement in service there, but unfortunately the service from East Midlands cities to London, in terms of Frequency, Capacity, First Class Offering and unit comfort is clearly diminished from this time last decade.

Capacity will definitely return, frequency is down to the DfT and First class offering will be free tea and coffee from the trolley as these units don't look like they'll have a shop (but that's always shut on EMR services anyway). The seats are like the Lumo and Avanti refurb units which for journeys of 2h 10 maximum aren't bad at all. Once these start to enter service EMR will rise up the tables I'm sure. They're not the Meridians but I think only the ambience will be the downside of these 810s.

 

[bluelagoon8951]

first class on emr isn't done from the buffet, the buffet is operated by standard class hosts only when the train is full and standing. first class on emr is done by first class hosts with the kitchen, and that's unlikely to change given emr would have to fire all their first class hosts if it did. tpe have first class kitchens on their 802s iirc, so it would be weird if emr didn't have them.

 

[Energy]

tpe have first class kitchens on their 802s iirc, so it would be weird if emr didn't have them.

They have a prep area but it's a lot less comprehensive than the 222s. The 810s are pretty much just a microwave, no dishwasher. The 222s have a toaster, ovens, a dishwasher, etc. so the kitchen is much longer.

London - Sheffield is only ~2hrs so I think this is adequate.

 

[800001]

They have a prep area but it's a lot less comprehensive than the 222s.

London - Sheffield is only ~2hrs so I think this is adequate.

Yeah it’s more a microwave and a boiler for water, smaller than an LNER 5 cars kitchen. I don’t think it has hobs/stove etc

 

[fgwrich]

Looks like 004 has left Newton Aycliffe and 007 put in an appearance when being towed. Interesting to see a couple of others with pans up.

Video on YouTube here:

Hopefully somebody will be able to post a video of 001 (or even 004) moving in electric mode at some point!

Finally on the note of a couple of the trains sitting there with pans up, is it some form of static electric mode testing or merely so that they have power without consuming diesel?

Looking closely at 004 as it’s leaving, it seems that Newton Aycliffe are obviously fans of sticky tape and stickers given the amount of tape residue around the doors and stickers on the roof, body sides and wheels!

I’m also a little surprised about the lack of dishwasher in these units as although the galley area was always intended to be this short, it is nice to drink out of a proper mug when travelling in FC. I always expected the catering side to be reduced (as previously mentioned, the sub 2hr mark warrants it) but it is nice to at least drink a tea or coffee from a proper cup than a paper one.

 

[800001]

Looking at 004, they’re obviously fans of sticky tape and stickers given the amount of tape residue around the doors / stickers on the roof, body sides and wheels!

I’m also a little surprised about the lack of dishwasher in these units as although the galley area was always intended to be this short, it is nice to drink out of a proper mug when travelling in FC.

The stickers are normally quality control issues. This unit is still a test unit and is not handed over to emr

 

[Trainbike46]

They have a prep area but it's a lot less comprehensive than the 222s. The 810s are pretty much just a microwave, no dishwasher. The 222s have a toaster, ovens, a dishwasher, etc. so the kitchen is much longer.

London - Sheffield is only ~2hrs so I think this is adequate.

If they design a menu around food that is nice when microwaved, plus some cold options, they should be good.

Also, why would you want to wash the dishes onboard rather than swapping them out for clean ones at a station, and washing them there? I've heard that's how LNER and some other TOCs do it, it saves valuable space on the train, and you can still have real plates/cups/etc.

 

[dosxuk]

I’m also a little surprised about the lack of dishwasher in these units as although the galley area was always intended to be this short, it is nice to drink out of a proper mug when travelling in FC.

It has been reported that the plan is to bring trolleys of clean/dirty crockery on/off the train at the termini.

 

[Mikey C]

It has been reported that the plan is to bring trolleys of clean/dirty crockery on/off the train at the termini.

Do staff use the emergency exits at the back of the platforms at St Pancras when servicing trains, as the passenger exit and concourse is crowded enough without having dirty plates being pushed through!

 

[liamf656]

Do staff use the emergency exits at the back of the platforms at St Pancras when servicing trains, as the passenger exit and concourse is crowded enough without having dirty plates being pushed through!

There's a lift on each platform that takes you down to Rail Gourmet's base at St Pancras

 

[Energy]

Also, why would you want to wash the dishes onboard rather than swapping them out for clean ones at a station, and washing them there? I've heard that's how LNER and some other TOCs do it, it saves valuable space on the train, and you can still have real plates/cups/etc.

There are pros and cons to either way.

Cleaning them off the train requires an additional sets of crockery, takes up space at the termini and takes staff time loading and unloading. It's much more difficult if your services terminate in many different

Cleaning on the train takes up space, uses limited on board water, and as its on a train the dishwasher itself is likely to cost more.

 

[800001]

If they design a menu around food that is nice when microwaved, plus some cold options, they should be good.

Also, why would you want to wash the dishes onboard rather than swapping them out for clean ones at a station, and washing them there? I've heard that's how LNER and some other TOCs do it, it saves valuable space on the train, and you can still have real plates/cups/etc.

That’s exactly how LNER do it. Carts of dorty crockery get taken off at Edinburgh, Leeds, Newcastle and kings cross.

 

[ChrisC]

If they design a menu around food that is nice when microwaved, plus some cold options, they should be good.

Also, why would you want to wash the dishes onboard rather than swapping them out for clean ones at a station, and washing them there? I've heard that's how LNER and some other TOCs do it, it saves valuable space on the train, and you can still have real plates/cups/etc.

I don’t think EMR have used any crockery since Covid so why would they need a dishwasher. It would be nice to think that they would go back to real cups and even a paper plate would be better than no plate at all which seems to be the current situation. Whenever I travel to London from Nottingham, which is always off peak, I mostly travel First Class, as a Super Off Peak Return isn‘t too badly priced with my Senior Railcard. Since Covid it’s always been paper cups and no plates. You just have to eat the sandwiches etc out of the wrapper they are in. For a journey of under 2 hours the food provided is quite adequate but it would be nice to have proper cups and better quality coffee. Some of the sandwiches are quite good quality.

 

[AndrewJM70]

Does anyone know if each of the 33 units require months pf testing or is it just the first few?

 

[800001]

Does anyone know if each of the 33 units require months pf testing or is it just the first few?

If you mean mobile testing, the first couple will need several weeks, the remaining bulk of units will do a set mileage of fault free.