Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[Trainman40083]

Guess it is there for testing on the ECML

Noticed an 810 parked in Doncaster Carr IEP depot today. Anyone know what it was doing there?

 

[800001]

Noticed an 810 parked in Doncaster Carr IEP depot today. Anyone know what it was doing there?

810001 for repairs.

 

[QSK19]

Seems that somebody has posted a comment in an 810-related YouTube video that Hitachi have had to pay £15m thus far in penalties for 810 progress overrunning. Would this actually be a reasonable guess (just under 4% of the order value) or is it somebody hyping things up by using an unsubstantiated figure plucked out of the air?

 

[Nym]

4% doesn’t sound unreasonable.

 

[Snow1964]

Seems that somebody has posted a comment in an 810-related YouTube video that Hitachi have had to pay £15m thus far in penalties for 810 progress overrunning. Would this actually be a reasonable guess (just under 4% of the order value) or is it somebody hyping things up by using an unsubstantiated figure plucked out of the air?

It comes from Rock Rail East Midlands Accounts to 31 Dec 2023
See Accounts note 2 : £15,290k received as Liquidated damages from Hitachi

ROCK RAIL EAST MIDLANDS PLC filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

ROCK RAIL EAST MIDLANDS PLC - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

As trains still not in service 6-7 months later, probably going to be same again in 2024 if not more.

 

[QSK19]

It comes from Rock Rail East Midlands Accounts to 31 Dec 2023
See Accounts note 2 : £15,290k received as Liquidated damages from Hitachi

ROCK RAIL EAST MIDLANDS PLC filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

ROCK RAIL EAST MIDLANDS PLC - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

As trains still not in service 6-7 months later, probably going to be same again in 2024 if not more.

Many thanks - will be interesting to see!

 

[al2000]

810004 currently sat in Derby station.

 

[800001]

810004 currently sat in Derby station.

Believe going to depot for attention?

 

[Aspen90]

Another engine fault apparently.

 

[Pete_uk]

Those pesky engines!

 

[QSK19]

Surely it can’t be 2026, can it?!

(my - at one time unthinkable - prediction that various delays are going to push full introduction back to 2026, that is. Should have had a quid on it at the bookies!)

 

[Aspen90]

Full engine replacement not just a fault now! Thats 2 engines they’ve replaced now isn’t it?

 

[DannyMich2018]

Surely it can’t be 2026, can it?!

(my - at one time unthinkable - prediction that various delays are going to push full introduction back to 2026, that is. Should have had a quid on it at the bookies!)

It's mid July 2024, testing on the MML, let alone staff training hasn't started so 2026 very likely now for entry into service sadly.

 

[absolutelymilk]

It's mid July 2024, testing on the MML, let alone staff training hasn't started so 2026 very likely now for entry into service sadly.

How long did it take from testing on the WCML to entry into service for the 805s?

 

[QSK19]

How long did it take from testing on the WCML to entry into service for the 805s?

A much shorter amount of time. Don’t forget, though, that 810s are completely different to the 80x (differences have been much discussed here and in other threads). They need the full suite of tests.

Nevertheless, the amount of time it’s taking is clearly unacceptable, as evidenced by Hitachi paying Rock Rail nearly £15.3m in lateness penalties (referred to in post 2,796). And that’s only thus far!

 

[InTheEastMids]

Full engine replacement not just a fault now! Thats 2 engines they’ve replaced now isn’t it?

Such a shame that there is no alternative method of propulsion for high speed trains...

 

[duffield]

Such a shame that there is no alternative method of propulsion for high speed trains...

At this rate, the whole MML will be wired before the 810's are in service, so the apparently troublesome diesel engines won't be required.

 

[Killingworth]

At this rate, the whole MML will be wired before the 810's are in service, so the apparently troublesome diesel engines won't be required.

As Sheffield isn't due until 2030, most probably itself delayed until nearer 2035, that's a very depressing prospect

 

[QSK19]

As Sheffield isn't due until 2030, most probably itself delayed until nearer 2035, that's a very depressing prospect

OHLE-battery hybrid could work in order to get rid of the diesel engines. But that’s venturing off topic.

Nevertheless, clearly there is something fundamentally wrong if 810001 has suffered 2 engine failures. 132 engines will be fitted across the 810 fleet; so hundreds of replacement engines will be needed at this rate.

Doing some fag packet maths, 2 engines have been replaced over the course of a year’s worth of testing:

- 2 replacement engines needed for 1 unit over the course of a year.
- 2 engines per unit x 33 units = 66 replacement engines per year.
- 35 serviceable years x 66 replacement engines per year = 2310 replacement engines over the course of the fleet’s life!!

That’s also a very depressing prospect! Obviously 2310 replacement engines won’t be the true number because, presumably, testing will become more reliable once teething issues have been ironed out and they may ditch the engines in favour of batteries mid life; but these engine replacements so early on are a very worrying development.

 

[LowLevel]

OHLE-battery hybrid could work in order to get rid of the diesel engines. But that’s venturing off topic.

Nevertheless, clearly there is something fundamentally wrong if 810001 has suffered 2 engine failures. 132 engines will be fitted across the 810 fleet; so hundreds of replacement engines will be needed at this rate.

Doing some fag packet maths, 2 engines have been replaced over the course of a year’s worth of testing:

- 2 replacement engines needed for 1 unit over the course of a year.
- 2 engines per unit x 33 units = 66 replacement engines per year.
- 35 serviceable years x 66 replacement engines per year = 2310 replacement engines over the course of the fleet’s life!!

That’s also a very depressing prospect! Obviously 2310 replacement engines won’t be the true number because, presumably, testing will become more reliable once teething issues have been ironed out and they may ditch the engines in favour of batteries mid life; but these engine replacements so early on are a very worrying development.

It's a test unit. It isn't necessarily even remotely indicative of fleet wide performance under normal conditions once settled into a maintenance regime.

 

[800001]

OHLE-battery hybrid could work in order to get rid of the diesel engines. But that’s venturing off topic.

Nevertheless, clearly there is something fundamentally wrong if 810001 has suffered 2 engine failures. 132 engines will be fitted across the 810 fleet; so hundreds of replacement engines will be needed at this rate.

Doing some fag packet maths, 2 engines have been replaced over the course of a year’s worth of testing:

- 2 replacement engines needed for 1 unit over the course of a year.
- 2 engines per unit x 33 units = 66 replacement engines per year.
- 35 serviceable years x 66 replacement engines per year = 2310 replacement engines over the course of the fleet’s life!!

That’s also a very depressing prospect! Obviously 2310 replacement engines won’t be the true number because, presumably, testing will become more reliable once teething issues have been ironed out and they may ditch the engines in favour of batteries mid life; but these engine replacements so early on are a very worrying development.

Where does it confirm 810001 has had 2 engine failures?
I’m aware it has been to Derby twice for attention to wheel sets, and returned once to Aycliffe to fix a minor issue to an engine?

Never seen or heard of any engine failures.

Just because they replace 2 engines, doesn’t mean they are a failure, could be a slight modification made (discovered under the testing). Replace with 2 good, then modify engines removed?

 

[QSK19]

Where does it confirm 810001 has had 2 engine failures?
I’m aware it has been to Derby twice for attention to wheel sets, and returned once to Aycliffe to fix a minor issue to an engine?

Never seen or heard of any engine failures.

Just because they replace 2 engines, doesn’t mean they are a failure, could be a slight modification made (discovered under the testing). Replace with 2 good, then modify engines removed?

Let’s hope that is the case then - hearing that engines are being replaced so soon doesn’t, at face value, fill one with much confidence.

I do think it’s a case of teething problems which should get straightened out as testing progresses. My point wasn’t to say that 2310 engines will be needed - more that it does raise an eyebrow on whether reliability will be a cause for concern.

 

[Jozhua]

Weird how these trains specifically seem to have a huge number of issues - potentially anything to do with cramming the kit into a smaller amount of space below the train?

At this rate, the whole MML will be wired before the 810's are in service, so the apparently troublesome diesel engines won't be required.

Absolutely!

 

[1D54]

Anyone know the whereabouts of 810004 now after it was seen at Derby on Tuesday?

 

[Skymonster]

Anyone know the whereabouts of 810004 now after it was seen at Derby on Tuesday?

Went to Old Dalby as far as I’m aware

 

[1D54]

Went to Old Dalby as far as I’m aware

Thank you.

 

[Dood75]

Paths in for all next week for a Old Dalby-Sheffield-St Pancras-Old Dalby test run...shall wait and see if a run or two is made

 

[eastwestdivide]

Paths in for all next week for a Old Dalby-Sheffield-St Pancras-Old Dalby test run...shall wait and see if a run or two is made

Starting with

Realtime Trains | 5Q43 0806 Old Dalby to Sheffield | 22/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q43 0806 departure from Old Dalby to Sheffield on 22/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

0806 Old Dalby via Derby to Sheffield 1030

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2024 ==

[the following morning, 0900] Whatever it is, it's on the move!

 

[duffield]

Starting with

Realtime Trains | 5Q43 0806 Old Dalby to Sheffield | 22/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q43 0806 departure from Old Dalby to Sheffield on 22/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

0806 Old Dalby via Derby to Sheffield 1030

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2024 ==

[the following morning, 0900] Whatever it is, it's on the move!

Next leg is

Realtime Trains | 5Q44 1050 Sheffield to St Pancras International | 22/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q44 1050 departure from Sheffield to St Pancras International on 22/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

As it's supposed to sit in P5 at Derby from 1117 to 1200, I think I'll pop over from Nottingham and see if I can make a close inspection.

 

[midland1]

Hopefully get a shot of it passing Wigston and Kilby Bridge Jn. on the way back.