Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Fairly sure 387s have the normal flat version but I could be wrong.
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Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates
- Thread starter Jozhua
- Start date
Fairly sure 387s have the normal flat version but I could be wrong.
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R
RailUK Forums
It's actually reasonably comfortable. I had no qualms with it on an hour journey, so two hours should be fine. Obviously the cushion itself will probably be different, but on the whole, seems to be alright.
You're not.
An underrated feature of seats and one you often see in Europe and not the UK is foot rests, I hope these will have them since they're European design.
Personally the most comfortable I've ever been on a train weirdly was when I was travelling with Northern and the seat infront was on a raised box, so you could put your feet up. More intercity operators should include foot rests in their seat designs.
Personally the most comfortable I've ever been on a train weirdly was when I was travelling with Northern and the seat infront was on a raised box, so you could put your feet up. More intercity operators should include foot rests in their seat designs.
Martin222002
Member
Good spot Superalbs! Given that they are fitted to another Hitachi product makes sense that these could now be a seating option on offer. Good too to hear that they a comfortable seat. It does make the choice to go with the FISA LEAN first class variant for first class on the 810s an interesting choice, and not go with the standard variant LEAN for standard.
I had a look around to see what they are and all they say is that they are comfortable, nowhere mentions the model.
I think it may be a Lean, just not the same variants we've seen in other UK stock to date. The advertising material for the seat highlights the modularity of the seat, and also advertises two different types of padding that can be used - LEAN 'comfort' with the prominent wings around the headrest, and a LEAN 'basic' which doesn't. The profiling around the reverse of the back near the armrest looks very similar
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I don't think it is. The LEAN has two very prominent features which are missing - the shape of the armrest and the "round bit" from the support.
FISA LEAN seats
Hmm, I see what you mean. I still think it's possible that they've just swapped the armrest for a different design (although I must say, it doesn't look particularly comfy being completely flat) and the "round bit" is missing because it's not cantilevered in the picture of the italian unit.
Some digging revealed a video from 'feruglio engineering' shows the seat 'base' manufacturing for the Rock/Carvaggios, and confirms it to at least be a FISA product
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If that's the back, it's completely the wrong shape for a LEAN, in particular there isn't the "signature" knee-niche.
If it is a FISA product, as it seems it is, it looks more like the Regiorail range, which also have the flatter armrests, though the top is a slightly different (older?) shape. Or it could be a custom variant.
www.fisaitaly.com
If it is a FISA product, as it seems it is, it looks more like the Regiorail range, which also have the flatter armrests, though the top is a slightly different (older?) shape. Or it could be a custom variant.
Fisa Italy
www.fisaitaly.com
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You can put any shape of cushion on the base. Look at Turbostars - two types of base but both with identical cushions (plus the high back cushion shape that you only get on the Chapman base).
Indeed, putting a slightly thicker base cushion on the "infamous" Sophia would fix it for me, it's otherwise just like a Grammer E3000.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They're still using the Class 170 (FISA LEAN) image for Standard, so not really...
Mind you, even if they are Sophias in Standard that isn't necessarily all bad. There isn't a lot wrong with the Sophia base and frame, and it has some very good features like the pull-out table extension. What's bad is the cushion, particularly the base. Replace that and you've probably got a fairly decent seat quite similar to the Grammer E3000 used on Desiros.
Sophias (a higher backed variant) are used in 1st on 700s and I don't recall the "feeling the metal base" issue on those.
Mind you, even if they are Sophias in Standard that isn't necessarily all bad. There isn't a lot wrong with the Sophia base and frame, and it has some very good features like the pull-out table extension. What's bad is the cushion, particularly the base. Replace that and you've probably got a fairly decent seat quite similar to the Grammer E3000 used on Desiros.
Sophias (a higher backed variant) are used in 1st on 700s and I don't recall the "feeling the metal base" issue on those.
PG
Established Member
Well, apparently from that video, it's an enhancement of an 'already comfortable seat'. So, any idea what this already comfortable seat is...
Definitely an existing product, the two possibilities I'd say are the Fainsa Sophia, already used in other Hitachis, and the FISA Lean, used across the Abellio franchises.
At a guess, Fainsa Sophia with a better cushion, not necessarily a bad thing though, the main issues with the Sophia is the cushion and how hard it is.
The last episode of "Rail UK: Seat detectives" concluded it looked FISA-y, so with the admission that they took an existing 'comfortable' seat and modified it, I think that's looking more and more certain to be some customised FISA. The backs of the seats from what we've seen definitely doesn't look Fainsa-y
PG
Established Member
Kind of like the design brief was, this is the seat we're having - see if you can do anything to improve it without 'rubbishing' it publicly!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There was a suggestion above of an entirely different FISA seat (not the LEAN because it didn't have the "niche") as found on some Italian trains but with a new cushion.
What would be interesting to know would be if it's the same one Avanti West Coast are using.
I wouldn't call it unlikely, these are the same designers First used for TPE.
Nymanic
Member
Again, there's considerable reluctance to show what the Standard seat looks like (0:35-0:38). And if I'm not mistaken, that Standard render is from a 170 again! The 'window sill' design differs from that in the Aurora pics.
Why are EMR so reluctant to show us what they're using for the new trains...?
Why are EMR so reluctant to show us what they're using for the new trains...?
It is worth remembering that Fainsa merged with Compin in 2015 so perfectly possible that they have got round to a major design refresh at some point with learning from Compin?
Possibly, although the publicity material for the seat (albeit, probably using old pictures) still shows that they have a 'protrusion' running from underneath the armrest to the front edge of the seat - it'd be a fairly major redesign for that to be ditched I'd have thought.
Especially as the seat back/side from what appears to be the only actual render of the standard class interior (posts 653/665) look a lot like the FISA seat shown being made in post 699. It's possible that Compin redesigned the Sofia to look a lot like something that FISA build, but balance of probabilities...
PG
Established Member
Maybe they're waiting for the music to stop...
The centre up part of the seat looks very worn.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Those seats pictured are FISA LEANs, but they are only First Class, again...it is like they've got something to hide about Standard 
samuelmorris
Established Member
I think that's almost beyond doubt at this point - you don't put out marketing about seats if one of them hasn't been finalised. The design of the standard class seat is clearly being obfuscated. No reason to do that if you've nothing to hide!Those seats pictured are FISA LEANs, but they are only First Class, again...it is like they've got something to hide about Standard
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Does this shed any light on the discussion, or is it just a rehash of existing PR:
Design changes make EMR’s Aurora a new Hitachi product | Rail Business UK | Railway Gazette International
The original article also has more details on the differences between EMR's AT300s and everybody else's.
Design changes make EMR’s Aurora a new Hitachi product | Rail Business UK | Railway Gazette International
Each train will have 254 standard and 47 first class seats. EMR worked with Derby-based Dgdesign to develop an improved version of the Fisa Lean seat which has been used on the Stadler Flirt sets for Greater Anglia.
#*#*SHOW FULLSCREEN*#*#
There will be 800 mm of legroom, with a more ‘comfortable’ seat back rake than some other new trains being partly achieved through the use of more airline seating rather than bays.
EMR confirmed that seat pitch was a source of some contention, commenting ‘we were absolutely adamant about holding firm on seat pitch. It was one of our really strong things and we’re really pleased with where we’ve ended up.’
As well as having wider wings, the seat headrests will be slightly higher; according to EMR ‘you’ve got somewhere nice to place your head when you are relaxing in your seat.’
#*#*SHOW FULLSCREEN*#*#
Recognising that ‘what is comfortable to one person isn’t necessarily comfortable to another’, EMR has considered the ergonomics, centreline profile, firmness and cushions as well as the overall look of the seat, which the company notes can often affect the perception of comfort before a passenger even sits down.
While the seats and headrests are slightly larger and more sculpted, the use of horizontal trimming for the coverings will also add to a greater perception of width against the bland ‘single piece of cloth’ used on other new trains.
A continuous cushion across pairs of seats also gives an impression of width, and a deeper rolled edge at the front helps support the back of a passenger’s legs and gives them some additional comfort.
The original article also has more details on the differences between EMR's AT300s and everybody else's.