Class 93 Tri-mode Loco

[800001]

The use of infrastructure vehicles as loaded test trains for the class 93 is very interesting and perhaps points to something I hadn't considered. A numbert of people have been speculating over the last couple of years as to what sort of trains ROG could deploy the 93s onto. Perhaps Network Rail infrastructure services are such a traffic and perhaps ROG could consider tendering for such steady work in the future, alongside the existing FOCs. Or possibly FOCs might consider leasing examples for such regular flows as Doncaster - Millerhill or Carlisle-Crewe.

Obviously electricity from the OLE ie regarded as expensive at the moment, but if Iran were to block the straights of Hormuz and seriously elevate the price of crude oil, then global oil / diesel prices could go through the roof, and AC traction become more acceptable.

Who knows

Most likely a case of they were the easiest, most available type of wagon at Crewe for them to hire to get the relevant weight they require for testing.

I would not read anything in to the type of wagons they are pulling on these tests.

 

[Class15]

Most likely a case of they were the easiest, most available type of wagon at Crewe for them to hire to get the relevant weight they require for testing.

I would not read anything in to the type of wagons they are pulling on these tests.

This precisely. There are usually plenty of these spare during the week.

 

[Suraggu]

Most likely a case of they were the easiest, most available type of wagon at Crewe for them to hire to get the relevant weight they require for testing.

I would not read anything in to the type of wagons they are pulling on these tests.

Agreed. ROG have been open about what these tests are and it’s ultimately load testing and capabilities of tackling climbs from a standing start.

 

[Nottingham59]

There's now a northbound 1800t timing load run on RTT for tomorrow

That's good to see, thanks. And tonight's run is 1600t trailing load.

I understand 1800t is typical of a 750m maximum length intermodal. Getting one of those up Shap will be a really good advert for the 93.

 

[zwk500]

I understand 1800t is typical of a 750m maximum length intermodal.

Think 775m is now the European interoperability standard but yes 1800t is the typical timing load for a maxed out train.

Getting one of those up Shap will be a really good advert for the 93.

It really will be. For both ROG and Stadler.

 

[hwl]

That's good to see, thanks. And tonight's run is 1600t trailing load.

I understand 1800t is typical of a 750m maximum length intermodal. Getting one of those up Shap will be a really good advert for the 93.

The problem is that the total rolling resistances (including aerodynamics) are higher for a larger number of lower axle weight intermodal wagons compared to the NR wagons used for testing so there is a danger of reading too much into tonnages alone.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2025 ==

Think 775m is now the European interoperability standard but yes 1800t is the typical timing load for a maxed out train.

It really will be. For both ROG and Stadler.

88 is 1400tonne intermodal, the 93 should be better with the 600kW boost facility.

 

[800001]

Have seen that ROG posted an update on Linkedln yesterday link below

Many will have noticed the increasing number of Cl93's moving about the network as Operations Managers commence training and the loco's prepare for running-in trials. | Rail Operations Group

Many will have noticed the increasing number of Cl93's moving about the network as Operations Managers commence training and the loco's prepare for running-in trials. All good positive stuff, but hugely difficult to facilitate through our existing processes - a debate I will save for another...

www.linkedin.com

Many will have noticed the increasing number of Cl93's moving about the network as Operations Managers commence training and the loco's prepare for running-in trials. All good positive stuff, but hugely difficult to facilitate through our existing processes - a debate I will save for another day!

93001 was put through its paces during EMC testing earlier this year, hauling passenger rolling stock at speeds of up to 110mph on the West Coast Main Line. The locomotive performance far exceeded our operational expectations - a real win for both Stadler and Rail Operations UK.

93007 was the locomotive chosen to showcase at Long Marston last week at Rail Live. The interest in the locomotive was phenomenal, not only as the cab air-con was a real treat! This week, rather than sitting around looking beautiful, it was time for some work for 93007. Last night the loco hauled its first load of stone under test conditions from Crewe to Carlisle and return. All will know that the real test on this route is Tebay to Shap on the Down and Penrith to Shap on the Up.

From a standing start at Tebay, 93007 easily attained 60mph on the climb in the Down direction. This despite a greasy railhead and rainy conditions. No issues with the loco and all the testing completed in good order. Early indications are that the loco performed well in other modes also. Trailing load will now increase incrementally over the next two weeks, and varying power modes will be tested as we continue to learn exactly what these game-changing locomotives can do - this time from a freight perspective. From what we have seen thus far I have no doubt that the freight credentials will mirror those excellently exhibited under earlier testing at high speed.

Clearly we have a real game-changer on our hands!

Can I please thank all who made last night - and indeed the earlier testing possible - Support and Operating staff, Stadler, Network Rail and other industry partners. A huge well done to all and I will continue to update you as the tests continue.

 

[Put Kettle On]

Don’t think the weekend Infrastructure service trains would be realistically possible for the 93s.
The midweek transfers & yard to yard services would be possible, but anything weekend would be out of the question.

The reasons for this.

Major weekend work requires varying amounts of trains.
Quite often, these trains arrive with Loco top & tail.
During the work, locos are cascaded from the rear of one train to the front of another, or vice versa, depending on arrival & departure pathing.
Locos can supplied from Colas, DB, DRS, Freightliner, & GBRF.
Drivers from any of the above suppliers will drive locos from any of the other companies to, within & from site.
Drivers, are therefore required to have traction knowledge of the locos, hence the use of 66s on these services.
Issues have arisen when Colas have provided 56s or 70s, as traction knowledge is limited to their own drivers, where they are not able to cover the work themselves ( for any variety of reasons ). Even with GBRF‘s Euro 66s, as they are not a UK standard 66, traction knowledge is limited to GBRF drivers, with drivers from other companies not able to drive those units.

I cannot see the Class 93 as being a Loco where drivers from various other companies are trained, & maintain the competence required for any such weekend infrastructure work.

 

[ac6000cw]

That's good to see, thanks. And tonight's run is 1600t trailing load.

I understand 1800t is typical of a 750m maximum length intermodal. Getting one of those up Shap will be a really good advert for the 93.

1800t + loco is 1886t, so just the gravity component on the 1 in 75 northbound climb is 18495/75 = 247kN, which is 85% of the quoted cl. 93 maximum tractive effort (and the real percentage will be higher due to rolling/starting resistance). Maybe in the dry, but pouring with rain etc. it feels a bit too close to the limit. And of course Beattock is a longer climb at a similar gradient.

 

[JKF]

Obviously electricity from the OLE ie regarded as expensive at the moment, but if Iran were to block the straights of Hormuz and seriously elevate the price of crude oil, then global oil / diesel prices could go through the roof, and AC traction become more acceptable.

Who knows

If the straits close it will block the shipment of LPG, pushing up gas prices too which have been the cause of high electricity prices over the last couple of years (due to most of the supply coming from Russia previously, and also how industry pricing is structured). So AC would remain expensive.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Don’t think the weekend Infrastructure service trains would be realistically possible for the 93s.
The midweek transfers & yard to yard services would be possible, but anything weekend would be out of the question.

The reasons for this.

Major weekend work requires varying amounts of trains.
Quite often, these trains arrive with Loco top & tail.
During the work, locos are cascaded from the rear of one train to the front of another, or vice versa, depending on arrival & departure pathing.
Locos can supplied from Colas, DB, DRS, Freightliner, & GBRF.
Drivers from any of the above suppliers will drive locos from any of the other companies to, within & from site.
Drivers, are therefore required to have traction knowledge of the locos, hence the use of 66s on these services.
Issues have arisen when Colas have provided 56s or 70s, as traction knowledge is limited to their own drivers, where they are not able to cover the work themselves ( for any variety of reasons ). Even with GBRF‘s Euro 66s, as they are not a UK standard 66, traction knowledge is limited to GBRF drivers, with drivers from other companies not able to drive those units.

I cannot see the Class 93 as being a Loco where drivers from various other companies are trained, & maintain the competence required for any such weekend infrastructure work.

I am afraid you misread me. I meant the monday to friday infrastructure services which run from yard to yard. At the moment these have contracts in place with Colas, DRS and GBRf but the Doncaster-Millerhill 6S31 could run on AC for the majority of the way. also thinking of Kingmoor - Basford Hall 6K05 as another example. Obviously 6D44 Bescot - Toton would be diesel all the way, so no benefit

 

[Freightmaster]

I am afraid you misread me. I meant the monday to friday infrastructure services which run from yard to yard. At the moment these have contracts in place with Colas, DRS and GBRf

...and Freightliner!

but the Doncaster-Millerhill 6S31 could run on AC for the majority of the way. also thinking of Kingmoor - Basford Hall 6K05 as another example. Obviously 6D44 Bescot - Toton would be diesel all the way, so no benefit

The problem is that these services are often only a handful of wagons at most (6S31 for example runs light engine
more often than not) - is that really the most appropriate use for state of the art, multi-million pound locos??




MARK

 

[Bertie the bus]

6K05 runs via the Settle & Carlisle. There was a period when it ran via the WCML in 2021 as 6Z05 and was Class 88 hauled but it soon reverted to the S&C. There must be a reason for this so I think the chances of 93s on it are pretty much zero.

is that really the most appropriate use for state of the art, multi-million pound locos??


MARK

Colas ordered their Class 70s mainly for Network Rail work. Presumably it pays very well. It isn't like BR days when they just put stuff that was ready for the scrap yard on departmentals.

 

[Wyrleybart]

...and Freightliner!

Oh. Of course Mark

The problem is that these services are often only a handful of wagons at most (6S31 for example runs light engine
more often than not) - is that really the most appropriate use for state of the art, multi-million pound locos??

MARK

Probably isn't the most appropriate use fiscally I agree, but the infrastructure services work would at least bring some funds into the balance sheet. On te face of it these ten 93s were possibly to be joined by another twenty options. Someone within ROG / Star clearly believe there was a market for them, just like there was a market for the DRS class 88s. you could equally question whether their best used is wandering around the country on featherweight flask trains, so the question probably is - are the NDA trains more or less profitable to the haulier than the infrastructure services trains.

On te metiomn of 6S31 and 6E?? I guess that might be a way of swapping out one of the Scottish based Colas locos for major exams at Rugby / Colwick ?? So maybe financially useful to Colas.

 

[Class15]

you could equally question whether their best used is wandering around the country on featherweight flask trains,

I think that’s slightly unfair - the 88s are currently mainly used on Tesco trains from Daventry to Coatbridge and Tilbury.

 

[Nottingham59]

Last night's 6Q09 got from Tebay to the summit in 10m30s, compared to 8m yesterday and 7m45s on Tuesday morning.

Tuesday was definitely from a standing start. I can't tell from the timings whether that was the case this morning, but I would expect it was. My best guess for speed achieved is 7.75/10.5x60 = 44mph.

On the return leg, 6Q42 got from Penrith to the summit in 20m, compared to 18m45s yesterday. Did anyone get to see how many wagons they were hauling last night?

 

[Wyrleybart]

I think that’s slightly unfair - the 88s are currently mainly used on Tesco trains from Daventry to Coatbridge and Tilbury.

Perhaps that was from a few months or a couple of years ago, so apologies if they are back to hauling boxes. Recent videos of DRS trains through Stafford suggest there are as many 68s and 88s on the Tesco trains.

 

[Suraggu]

Last night's 6Q09 got from Tebay to the summit in 10m30s, compared to 8m yesterday and 7m45s on Tuesday morning.

Tuesday was definitely from a standing start. I can't tell from the timings whether that was the case this morning, but I would expect it was. My best guess for speed achieved is 7.75/10.5x60 = 44mph.

On the return leg, 6Q42 got from Penrith to the summit in 20m, compared to 18m45s yesterday. Did anyone get to see how many wagons they were hauling last night?

I’m led to believe it was 16 JNA wagons and a 93 tucked in behind the lead loco.

 

[Nottingham59]

I’m led to believe it was 16 JNA wagons and a 93 tucked in behind the lead loco.

Thanks! If each wagon was fully loaded to 90t, that's a trailing load of 16x90+86 = 1526t, and a total train weight of 1612t.

On 1.31%, that's a tractive effort of 1612x9.8x0.0131 = 206kN, plus rolling friction and any wind resistance.

If they did achieve 44mph (19.7m/s), that's a demonstrated power output of 206x19.7= 4,077kW at the rail. (Plus rolling resistance, and any wind resistance, of course)

 

[ac6000cw]

Thanks! If each wagon was fully loaded to 90t, that's a trailing load of 16x90+86 = 1526t, and a total train weight of 1612t.

On 1.31%, that's a tractive effort of 1612x9.8x0.0131 = 206kN, plus rolling friction and any wind resistance.

If they did achieve 44mph (19.7m/s), that's a demonstrated power output of 206x19.7= 4,077kW at the rail. (Plus rolling resistance, and any wind resistance, of course)

According to the Met Office, it was a drizzly and breezy last night on Shap, so it looks like the 93 was doing well.

1800t trailing tonight. The return working is 1600t trailing, which might be a mistake or maybe some of the load is actually being delivered to Carlisle.

 

[Belfastmarty]

is that really the most appropriate use for state of the art, multi-million pound locos??

Whilst it nice to see the 93s out and about finally, we are fast reaching the stage where ROG will need to get them doing something, and if that's hauling spent ballast or units off for scrap then so be it. If they are sitting round in depots doing nothing they will rapidly become a drain on ROGs finances. BTW I agree about your appropriate use comment but it will be better for them to be earning some sort of an income.

 

[zwk500]

Were the 0Qs running from Wembley to Bristol Parkway and back today Class 93 runs? They appear to have ROG Service Codes.

Realtime Trains | 0Q81 1134 Wembley H.S. to Bristol Parkway | 26/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 0Q81 1134 departure from Wembley H.S. to Bristol Parkway on 26/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 0Q72 1559 Bristol Parkway to Wembley H.S. | 26/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 0Q72 1559 departure from Bristol Parkway to Wembley H.S. on 26/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

EDIT: ah sorry, had missed post #1,645 confirming they were.

 

[Class15]

Were the 0Qs running from Wembley to Bristol Parkway and back today Class 93 runs? They appear to have ROG Service Codes.

Realtime Trains | 0Q81 1134 Wembley H.S. to Bristol Parkway | 26/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 0Q81 1134 departure from Wembley H.S. to Bristol Parkway on 26/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 0Q72 1559 Bristol Parkway to Wembley H.S. | 26/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 0Q72 1559 departure from Bristol Parkway to Wembley H.S. on 26/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

EDIT: ah sorry, had missed post #1,645 confirming they were.

Indeed they were!

Here is 93001 passing Ealing Broadway, on electric mode! First time I have seen an electric locomotive on the Great Western! (Well, tri-mode, but using the wires)

 

[reddragon]

I missed it going down as it was quite early beyond Reading, but caught it coming back up a few late behind a Freightliner running on the OLE.

 

[Bertie the bus]

BTW I agree about your appropriate use comment but it will be better for them to be earning some sort of an income.

An appropriate use for any loco is one that earns its operating company some money. Enthusiasts might think that shiny new toys should be hauling more prestigious things like intermodals but I doubt ROG are that bothered what they haul as long as they earn their keep.

The issue is it doesn't appear that ROG have any work at all lined up for them, and this discussion about Network Rail services is just someone adding 2 + 2 and coming up with 14. They're just loaded test runs.

 

[Suraggu]

Last night the black box showed 18 wagons + a dead 93 tucked inside. A total train weight of 1706 tonnes.

Realtime Trains | 6Q09 2229 Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Carlisle N.Y. | 26/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 6Q09 2229 departure from Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Carlisle N.Y. on 26/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looking at the timings it managed Tebay - Shap Summit in 19 minutes.

 

[Nottingham59]

Last night the black box showed 18 wagons + a dead 93 tucked inside. A total train weight of 1706 tonnes.

Realtime Trains | 6Q09 2229 Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Carlisle N.Y. | 26/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 6Q09 2229 departure from Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Carlisle N.Y. on 26/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looking at the timings it managed Tebay - Shap Summit in 19 minutes.

Thanks. I think 1706 tonnes might be the trailing load, assuming all wagons were fully loaded to 90t each.

Looks like they had a problem, given that it took nearly twice as long to get to the top as the previous test with 1526t trailing load. I'm guessing now, but it looks to me like the 93 failed and they had to use the back-up loco in the consist to self rescue.

 

[Richard123]

Thanks. I think 1706 tonnes might be the trailing load, assuming all wagons were fully loaded to 90t each.

Looks like they had a problem, given that it took nearly twice as long to get to the top as the previous test with 1526t trailing load. I'm guessing now, but it looks to me like the 93 failed and they had to use the back-up loco in the consist to self rescue.

They still kept gaining time all the way through the climb against the class 66 timings. 19 minutes gained between Carlisle and Shap I think. If it had needed to self-rescue I would have expected it to lose time somewhere.

We might need to await the actual reports. As you reach the TE limits spare Newtons for acceleration do drop off so you would expect it to be slower than when more slightly loaded...

 

[800001]

Thanks. I think 1706 tonnes might be the trailing load, assuming all wagons were fully loaded to 90t each.

Looks like they had a problem, given that it took nearly twice as long to get to the top as the previous test with 1526t trailing load. I'm guessing now, but it looks to me like the 93 failed and they had to use the back-up loco in the consist to self rescue.

or they stopped on the incline to restart…..

 

[Bob Price]

0Q28 today shows 93002, 7 and 10 heading back to Worksop from Crewe. A triple 93 could be interesting.