Classic Bus North West

[robertclark125]

This operation has started new route 22 between Mereside and Cleveleys. I'll be visiting Blackpool at the end of the month for a few days, but the firm I booked with, Blackpool Promotions, supplies 5 day travel cards to use on Blackpool Transport, so I can't use CBNW. They run route 12 and route 22.

Anyone got thoughts on them, and can they seriously challenge Blackpool transport?

 

[cainebj]

They're doing rather well considering its a new operation, set up by the LTT to subsidise their rent fees for stored trams at Blackpool Transport. SeaFront12 has been pulling in a lot of tourists with that service largely using Routemasters and an open top Bristol VR, with a few Olympian's making appearances. Services run more often than CitySightseeing, on more days of the year, and is cheaper. Not low floor like the Blackpool Transport alternatives, but it provides the more leisure style service that has been lost from the regular tramway.

Classic Bus North West also operate 2 college services, after winning the contracts from Blackpool Transport. I believe they are in a position to bid for more contracts in the Blackpool area to increase their presence, while providing competition for BT for these contracts.

 

[robertclark125]

This oepration is styled a bit like the old Routemaster Bournemouth firm that ran in the early 1990s, and ran several routes in competition with Yellow Buses, though it eventually failed, then reappeared as Shamrock of Poole.

 

[martinsh]

This oepration is styled a bit like the old Routemaster Bournemouth firm that ran in the early 1990s, and ran several routes in competition with Yellow Buses, though it eventually failed, then reappeared as Shamrock of Poole.

Which also failed ...

Will be interesting to see how CBNW get on. I'm not sure about this but I assume that route 22 doesn't just duplicate Blackpool Tpt services since they don't have a route 22 ?

 

[robertclark125]

Kind of. Blackpool Transport used to run a route 22. It was withdrawn in the 2006 colour coding revisions. I think the fact they're running a new route, as opposed to doing what Routemaster Bournemouth did, and duplicate Yellow Buses routes, is a help. Also, at first, Routemaster Bournemouth ran buses older than those of Yellow Buses, much older, and the RM tag was a bid odd when they ran Nationals, Fleetlines, Ailsas etc.

That said, it could be argued the tag Classic Bus North West may look strange on a 1999 Dart SLF. However, CBNW haven't went into the mistake Routemaster Bournemouth did make, of running several routes straight away. Instead, they've started off in April with the 12, and in September launched the 22. They're doing it gradually, which may benefit both them, and their preserved buses, in the longer term.

 

[34D]

They're doing rather well considering its a new operation, set up by the LTT to subsidise their rent fees for stored trams at Blackpool Transport.

But they're not new, they've been hiring routemasters for weddings etc for several years.

They are run by the wonderful Mr Philip Higgs, and as a result I hope the venture fails.

Apparently the reason that commercial rents were charged for tram cars was the bidding against BTS for college routes, not the other way round.

 

[WestCoast]

Catch22 is a new route, devised by CBNW to fill in gaps and to offer new connections where Blackpool Transport have withdrawn services or links that have never existed (at least not for more than two decades or so).

Catch22 is not a tourist service, it's aimed almost entirely at locals. It has traces of lost links in the Line 16 (formerly Lifestyle Line funded by the Great Bus Challenge or something like that) which was cut back by BT earlier this year.

Kind of. Blackpool Transport used to run a route 22. It was withdrawn in the 2006 colour coding revisions

Route 22 was withdrawn in the 2001 Metro Coastlines launch (now gone) and formed part of the Line 11, which was modified further in the 2010 relauch as Blackpool Transport. It's not the same service, although again traces of the route are incorporated in the Blackpool - Cleveleys section.

They are run by the wonderful Mr Philip Higgs, and as a result I hope the venture fails

Whatever you think of Mr Higgs, the new service is offering links that BT have taken away from local users and because BT have had no serious challengers (Stagecoach don't give two hoots about the Fylde anymore), if the council or LCC don't step in with generous funding, links are lost permanently.

Basically the focus on the Fylde Coast has been on the flashy tramway, important as it is, I do feel that the core bus operation has suffered because of it. As a result, I wish CBNW every success and do hope they can expand even further.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Apparently the reason that commercial rents were charged for tram cars was the bidding against BTS for college routes, not the other way round.

I know many see BTS as a 'good guy' because they're a municipal, but I sometimes question their operation and strategy - the bus branding, advertising and services info. is dreadful for a start. Their single fares and day tickets are actually more expensive than two parallel Stagecoach routes (more complimentary than competition)!

Lancashire County Council never seems to contract BTS (or Stagecoach for that matter) for any Fylde Coast public services anymore, it doesn't take an insider to work out why...

 

[robertclark125]

The 22 has only been running one month, which in bus operating lifespans is really five minutes. Early indications, from caineb suggest it's doing good.

I keep thinknig the colour coding took place in 2006, didn't realise it was even earlier so my apologies. Looks like CBNW are trying a niche service at first, using a familiar route number, but on a slightly different route. If they expand, I don't think it'll be until the new year. Again, as per the poster above, it would probably be along another route that isn't linked by BTS anymore, and replaced by other routes in parts.

Which leads me to this question; are there any sections of the CBNW route 22 that parallel existing BTS routes, and if so where and what routes?

 

[WestCoast]

Which leads me to this question; are there any sections of the CBNW route 22 that parallel existing BTS routes, and if so where and what routes?

I know the Fylde very well, so I've looked in detail at the route.

Well, there are already two BTS routes (3 and 4) that make the ~8 miles trip from Mereside Tesco (near CBNW's depot) to Cleveleys.

The Catch22 parallels BTS's 16 for the short stretch (10 minutes) between Mereside Tesco and Highfield High School, then it near enough parallels BTS's Line 7 between Highfield High School and Blackpool Town Centre.

Following that, Town Centre to Bispham Village sort of follows the alignment of the aforementioned 3/4 routes through residential streets in North Shore (lots of previously unserved roads). Following that, a mixture of 9/3/4/7 to Cleveleys via the all important College and Anchorsholme.

It does certainly boost frequencies along a number of corridors and provides missing links like parts of South Shore to Marton, College to parts of North Shore e.t.c.

 

[Class20]

The 22 has been set up to serve areas of the Fylde that have been left in limbo (bus service wise) following cut backs by Blackpool Transport over the years. It also serves a number of schools across the Fylde as well as the local college.

Its most definitely being run as a proper bus service for the local people. Its also allowing the company to retain an inbound cash flow, much needed when the 12 takes its winter break at the end of October.

I don't want to say to much about the service or operator since I have connections to them. I spent the first few days of the 22 marketing the route in areas it serves.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Well, the 12 is certainly a good service for getting up and down the promenade! (You think that until you're dumb enough to fall out of the back anyway.)
I'm looking forward to covering the 22. Heard it uses Metroriders, score. :P

 

[robertclark125]

I think that's the key difference between this and Routemaster Bournemouth. The latter ran it's routes on roads already served by Yellow Buses, and indeed also did directly compete on a couple of routes. Here, CBNW are doing it differently, with a new route that competes partly with BTS, but also serves unserved roads.

 

[34D]

I'm looking forward to covering the 22. Heard it uses Metroriders, score. :P

You are joking, right?

 

[cainebj]

22 uses 4 ex-London Dennis Dart SLF's. Metrorider, B10M (ex-Stagecoach R899 XVM) and Olympian's cover the service when Dart's aren't available for service. Competing against Blackpool Transport, the Dart's are the better choice to keep the easy access where possible.

 

[34D]

22 uses 4 ex-London Dennis Dart SLF's. Metrorider, B10M (ex-Stagecoach R899 XVM) and Olympian's cover the service when Dart's aren't available for service. Competing against Blackpool Transport, the Dart's are the better choice to keep the easy access where possible.

Well quite. But metroriders!!

 

[Class20]

There's only the one Metrorider. As cainebj mentioned, the 4 Darts are the main choice for the 22 (allowing full low floor operation) with the Olympians, B10M and Metrorider filling in when needed. Even one of the Routemasters worked the route on its first day.

 

[robertclark125]

If they take their time, they may make a good go of it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Are CNBW the operator to watch in 2013?

 

[WestCoast]

If they take their time, they may make a good go of it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Are CNBW the operator to watch in 2013?

I hope they do succeed, the Fylde (unlike nearby Preston) hasn't seen proper competition since the post-deregulation days, before BTS bought out Blue Buses.

 

[WestCoast]

Just an update on CBNW's operations now that I'm back on the Fylde for a short while. Obviously, the "Seafront 12" has finished for the winter. However, it seems that they are doing quite well with their "Catch 22" service, which is aimed predominately at residents.

The buses I travelled on weren't packed by any means, but they had a steady flow of OAP pass holders, regulars with monthly passes, people paying single fares and a few schoolkids/college students as well. Interesting collection of buses on the service which requires 4 vehicles. Today, an ex-Stagecoach London Dennis Dart, an ex-Blackpool Transport Optare MetroRider (I'd forgotten how bouncy the ride on these are!), an ex-Dublin Bus Volvo Olympian and an ex-Stagecoach Volvo B10M! I understand the 4 Darts they have are usually the most common vehicles on this service.

Monday-Friday daytime frequency is increasing from every 30 minutes to every 20 minutes from January 14th. Also overheard a conversation between two regular users that they were impressed and also they said that a driver had mentioned possible new routes being considered in the New Year.

 

[robertclark125]

At least they've not fell into the trap that Routemaster Bournemouth did, and that was to compete directly with the incumbent at first. Yes there are bits of competition, but the 22 doesn't paralell an entire route, but does provide links that have been broken for some time. As I've already asked, are CBNW the operator to watch in 2013?

 

[robertclark125]

I know it's only been two weeks, but how is the 20 minute frequency on route 22 faring up on Mondays to Fridays? The saturday service is still 30 minutes.

And, what route will they consider next?

 

[Class20]

From what I've read elsewhere the 22 seems to be doing well. Passenger numbers continue to rise.

It can't be said what route will be considered next. Its impossible to say where the company will expand (i.e which areas of the Fylde). Knowing the people running the company (who keep information very tight lipped) it could very well be any part of the area.

 

[robertclark125]

It's good to see people using the 22. I just wonder how much is abstraction from BTS, and how much is new demand. But good to see it working out.

 

[cainebj]

Just a quick update on CBNW's fleet for Catch 22.
In addition to the 2 ex Stagecoach London V-MVX Dart's and ex Transdev X-UAT Dart's, Classic Bus North West now also have ex London ALX200 bodied Dart's T143 AUA (plain white, purchased from an ebay seller) and T145 AUA, and have also recently purchased ex-Metroline London Pointer Dart Y652 NLO from Ensignbus. All 7 Dart's fleet retain their centre exit, and will cover the Catch 22 PVR of 6 once all are in service. Another service change is planned on 22 from 4th May, currently not known what the change will be, whether it is another service increase or just timetable tweaking to adjust for the busier season.
Also of note, CBNW recently purchased Olympian P915 RYO 16874 from Stagecoach Merseyside & South Lancashire.

 

[Class20]

They have also gained two ex Big Bus Tour London tri-axel MCW Metrobuses, F326UJN & F69SYE. They also currently have ex London Central Mercedes Citaro artic BD52LNF on a 1 month loan, although its not being used in public service. It should be out of the fleet by the end of March.

I believe the service change on the 4th May is the introduction of a Sunday service in response to passenger demand. I know this is planned but I don't know when, this date would seem logical.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have heard that Classic Bus North West have now made an arrangement with Blackpool Pleasure Beach for discounted prices on their admission/ride wristbands. Is this correct ?

 

[rownd]

I have heard that Classic Bus North West have now made an arrangement with Blackpool Pleasure Beach for discounted prices on their admission/ride wristbands. Is this correct ?

The same offer was in place last year - £5 off gate price when a bus ticket is presented at the Pleasure Beach admission desk.

 

[robertclark125]

A Sunday service on route 22 starts in May. And CBNW are now taking things a bit more seriously, allowing you to compare prices with Blackpool Transport

http://www.catch22bus.co.uk/compare-the-buses/