Bantamzen
Established Member
WHO guidance on masks is now a little more nuanced:
A relevant quote from the linked .pdf
None of that backs up your arguments, so my position remains unchanged.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Cloth masks, scarves and bandanas to be 'encouraged' with no compulsion
- Thread starter MarkyT
- Start date
- Status
None of that backs up your arguments, so my position remains unchanged.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Llanigraham
On Moderation
Whilst whole heartedly agreeing with the use of facemasks, having been previously been trained on how they should be worn, I have one problem with them; I can't lipread what is being said to me!
Clearly 'only anecdote not evidence' but an interesting account nonetheless, comparing two small outbreaks in very different communities in South Korea earlier this month and the processes of testing and tracing employed by authorities.
medium.com
How mask made the difference — two Coronavirus stories from Korea
In April 2020 in Korea, two high risk Coronavirus news stories. One from rural Yechon, the other urban Busan. Mask made difference.
I wore a mask every time I left my house during a recent(ish) trip to Taiwan when the pandemic was just getting started there.
The argument about masks encouraging face-touching is something I cannot understand, as the mask covering my mouth and nose prevents me from touching the important parts of the face, and any other part of my face I may or may not touch has nothing to do with the mask.
If I wear a mask, go shopping / ride a bus / train / metro etc, take the mask off with, wash hands thoroughly after touching mask - surely the only difference between not wearing a mask then is the additional barrier between me and others. We know the barrier of a face mask works, otherwise it wouldn't be an essential piece of PPE for medical workers. How effectively it works when worn by a "civilian" with all the pitfalls of incorrect fitting, wearing too long etc doesn't render them useless, just less effective.
Talking about Taiwan, it is another excellent case study on how to control the Virus through screening, testing, tracing and mask-wearing.
Taiwan had infra-red scanning and spot-checks for temperature for all passengers arriving at airports, anyone with an elevated temperature is taken for a test. Then, for the cases that do get through undetected the natural spread of the virus is hampered through the use of face masks.
So, although Taiwan essentially borders China, it has kept it's total number of cases below 500 and therefore is not "locked down".
The argument about masks encouraging face-touching is something I cannot understand, as the mask covering my mouth and nose prevents me from touching the important parts of the face, and any other part of my face I may or may not touch has nothing to do with the mask.
If I wear a mask, go shopping / ride a bus / train / metro etc, take the mask off with, wash hands thoroughly after touching mask - surely the only difference between not wearing a mask then is the additional barrier between me and others. We know the barrier of a face mask works, otherwise it wouldn't be an essential piece of PPE for medical workers. How effectively it works when worn by a "civilian" with all the pitfalls of incorrect fitting, wearing too long etc doesn't render them useless, just less effective.
Talking about Taiwan, it is another excellent case study on how to control the Virus through screening, testing, tracing and mask-wearing.
Taiwan had infra-red scanning and spot-checks for temperature for all passengers arriving at airports, anyone with an elevated temperature is taken for a test. Then, for the cases that do get through undetected the natural spread of the virus is hampered through the use of face masks.
So, although Taiwan essentially borders China, it has kept it's total number of cases below 500 and therefore is not "locked down".
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Just for reference, the eyes are a vector (both in and out), and there has been suggestion that in some people the eyes are infectious after the lungs no longer are.
I understand, but the most obvious way to pass the virus in a public space would be through mucus/sneeze/breath/cough and less so from contact with someone else's eye juice!
When trying to minimise exposure and transmission a disposable face mask is an easy, cheap, relatively comfortable solution and going for 100% protection through full face masks and goggles would be unrealistic.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Take one old T-shirt and a pair of scissors. Cut a suitable width and length of cloth from it. Place around your nose and mouth and tie at the back. Done.
Old T shirts? Wife disposes of them. She has a strict "one in, one out" policy.
P.S. I'm sure that would not be an effective face mask anyway.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You'll have to sacrifice an existing one then. Or a teatowel. Or a suitable strip of any fabric of your choice.
I'm sure I could get a length of some fabric, as you say. I'm not at all convinced that it would be any use.
Or just not. As a train conductor we are waiting for strapping things to our faces for however many hours to be imposed on us at some stage so the only saving grace is that means the employer has to supply them and thus is unlikely to be chopping up my old band t-shirts!
Have you watched people with masks here, particularly makeshift ones that need constant adjusting?
They fiddle with them, they remove them to drink, to chat, to make a phone call. All that extra face contact.
Totally anecdotal and just correlation. The two spreaders went to different types of places and had different lifestyle. It could all be down to the amount of contact involved.Clearly 'only anecdote not evidence' but an interesting account nonetheless, comparing two small outbreaks in very different communities in South Korea earlier this month and the processes of testing and tracing employed by authorities.
How mask made the difference — two Coronavirus stories from Korea
In April 2020 in Korea, two high risk Coronavirus news stories. One from rural Yechon, the other urban Busan. Mask made difference.
Fiddling is fine, pull the face mask off the face, do whatever needs to be done, push face mask back on face, wash hands. No need to touch the face.
Wash hands where?!
And fiddling with a makeshift mask without touching your face is nigh on impossible.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Use sanitiser.
How do you stop the bottle getting contaminated?
more relevantly do you see anyone fiddle with their mask then get sanitiser out?
Its all pretty half arsed and these are the volunteers, once you have people making token efforts just to shut the vigilantes up and get into shops/trains any discipline will fall apart.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Who cares if the bottle is contaminated? You only touch the bottle to pour the stuff on your hands. You then sanitise them.
How do you if you're out and about put the bottle away without touching it having dispensed your sanitizer. Mine lives in my work jacket pocket. Unless I want a pocket full of sanitizer when it runs off my hands I can't put the bottle away otherwise.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Take bottle from pocket and pour onto left hand (left handed version available
).Click bottle closed (it does assume you have one with a click lid, I suppose) and put in pocket with your right hand. But if you don't, as long as it's not screw top you can put it down and put the lid back on one handed.
Sanitise hands.
But as a general point, if your use of sanitiser requires touching the bottle after sanitising, it is completely ineffective regardless of masks and you need to reconsider how you're doing it.
With the the hand sanitiser we are supposed to be using.
I suggest the solution to that is for the government to source an adequate supply of disposable face masks so makeshift masks aren’t required.
Or, public information campaigns on the importance of using face masks correctly, as it seem some the majority of complaints are to do with user incompetence.
Anyway, anecdotally I have not seen anyone wearing makeshift masks but have seen many people wearing different varieties of professional face masks.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Though some of those are not effective for the intended purpose as they don't inhibit breathing (coughing/sneezing) out.
If people can’t be arsed to take the proper precautions when wearing a mask, but are at least wearing one then that’s their problem. At least the rest of us are slightly more protected from them. And that is the most important aspect of wearing one.
Indeed, any mask with a valve is hopeless.
Take bottle from pocket and pour onto left hand (left handed version available
Click bottle closed (it does assume you have one with a click lid, I suppose) and put in pocket with your right hand. But if you don't, as long as it's not screw top you can put it down and put the lid back on one handed.
Sanitise hands.
But as a general point, if your use of sanitiser requires touching the bottle after sanitising, it is completely ineffective regardless of masks and you need to reconsider how you're doing it.
That was the general conclusion I had come to eventually but nobody gives you this kind of useful information before you start, obvious although it may seem. It is still unwieldy as they come with a separate plastic cap (they are little pump bottles) so I have taken to trying to grapple the little lid back on before rubbing the sanitizer in
Merle Haggard
Established Member
Of course! I hadn't thought that through before, thanks. (Bletchleyite raised it initially). So my FFP2 valve masks, while very good at stopping me breathing in dodgy dust, let me breathe out, with no filtering, through the valve.
But I have seen people wearing them...
Almost as if people do things without fully thinking it through or why they're doing it!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Or they're selfish and only care about protecting themselves.
I don't think that's the case. The average person unless they happen to use them for work or the odd spot of DIY will rarely be wearing a face mask of any sort in the UK.
I suspect they're just getting their hands on whatever they find through sheer worry without paying much thought to the practical side of it particularly with the amount of alarming stuff floating around on social media.
Hence I haven't made any attempt to procure anything. My employer has to provide anything for work, anything else I'll move when or if directed because doing the wrong thing in this case is probably worse than doing nothing.
- Status