Cobblers to stay for longer?

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Julian G

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according to wnxx.com
The Euston / Northampton 'Cobbler' service currently utilising EWS 90s and stock look set to end on the 22nd.
is it more likely that they will end on the 22nd?
it will be good so then I will see it for the last time! :)
"The Cobblers' Dusk"
 
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Guinness

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I'm not convinced that it will end then. I doubt the Pendolinos have the better reliablity by that time. They're maybe less or that Virgin will use something different than a 90... Maybe a HST? :)
 

joy54.gen

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They are apparently ending this Friday, today I did a 350 and there are quite a few about so this doesn't seem to be untrue.
 

jonb

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I've been told they are due to end on the 18th July and now with the 350's in service this seems inevitable.
 

Galvanize

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Chaz said:
Are the 350s doing some VT services? :?
Yes, between B'ham and Preston :shock:, B'ham and Liverpool (might be CT). The 350s are totally unsuitable for the Preston Journeys as they have no buffet, uncomfortable seats (as per Voyager, Super Voyager or Pendo *Ouch my bum is hurting from those seats :x). Apparently they don't have a proper guard's office and the door control panels are really bad; the 'local' doors have to be manually switched on/off and they still have to use the good old T key which a number of people have, they know who they are. Then there's the problems of Clearence, stations like queens park or certain platforms of Euston (apparently Plat 1-5, 15, 16 and 18 are where the 350s are barred from, not sure if that's correct, I picked that up on WNXX).
 

Lewisham2221

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I believe when all delivered and in service the 350's will be used by both Silverlink on Northampton services and CT on BNS - Liverpool and BNS - Preston services, AFAIK only the Liverpool service exists at the moment and the Preston service is being introduced as there will be enough stock available, could be wrong though...
 

AlexS

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Preston service HAS been trialled using Turbostars, it is not however listed in the public timetable. I know that back whenver I met with FGWFan, I saw the Central Trains service to Preston formed of 170108. This was a passenger service. I don't know whether the services are still operating, though.
 

yorkie

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Please see my comparison of the use of 12-car desiros versus the Class 90 + Mk3 sets currently used, at http://www.railuk.org/hst/viewtopic.php?t=145.

In summary, there are many disadvantages to use of Desiros:-
- Less seats
- Higher leasing costs
- Higher track wear and tear costs
- Increased fuel costs (and the price of electricity charged to the TOCs by NR is going up)
- Loss of 1st class at the London end, 2+2 seating instead of 2+1 seating, overall less benefits to 1st class passengers, this will discourage 1st class passengers BUT there will be MORE first class seats (which will mean more empty 1st class seats while standard is more crowded).
- The Class 90s and Mk3s will now sit in sidings and be redundant. If these trains are scrapped now it would be a terrible waste of money.

Hmm.. so why do we have 12-car Desiros operating these services? Oh yeah, because the SRA messed up the Desiro order, and didn't want the embarrasment of another Meridian fiasco. :roll:
 

Julian G

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i wish they keep the Cobblers set!!!
ah, a peace protest!!!

SAVE THE COBBLERS,
Silverlink knock your brain out and start thinking what's faster, a beautiful 90 and DVT or ugly Dizatros

i still need some DVT thrash ;)
and 90s {oh, that will be the Sleeper :)}
 

Dave A

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yorkie said:
Please see my comparison of the use of 12-car desiros versus the Class 90 + Mk3 sets currently used, at http://www.railuk.org/hst/viewtopic.php?t=145.

In summary, there are many disadvantages to use of Desiros:-
- Less seats
- Higher leasing costs
- Higher track wear and tear costs
- Increased fuel costs (and the price of electricity charged to the TOCs by NR is going up)
- Loss of 1st class at the London end, 2+2 seating instead of 2+1 seating, overall less benefits to 1st class passengers, this will discourage 1st class passengers BUT there will be MORE first class seats (which will mean more empty 1st class seats while standard is more crowded).
- The Class 90s and Mk3s will now sit in sidings and be redundant. If these trains are scrapped now it would be a terrible waste of money.

Hmm.. so why do we have 12-car Desiros operating these services? Oh yeah, because the SRA messed up the Desiro order, and didn't want the embarrasment of another Meridian fiasco. :roll:

Which all basically adds up to ticket prices rising by half :roll:
 
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1288gaje said:
i wish they keep the Cobblers set!!!
ah, a peace protest!!!

SAVE THE COBBLERS,
Silverlink knock your brain out and start thinking what's faster, a beautiful 90 and DVT or ugly Dizatros

i still need some DVT thrash ;)
and 90s {oh, that will be the Sleeper :)}


I think you need to grow up, lol The public like shiney new trains. Besides, its a commuter train, and MK3s are not really that good for the job. The World goes on, things have to be replaced some time or another. We gota be a 21st century railway with 21st century stock, not a 21st century railway with 19th century stock! Go figuire !!!
 

Julian G

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actaully i have my point and i don't need to grow up
the new railway is utterly disgusting :x
and there are plastic-haters like yorkie etc..

and would the public like uncomfortable seats? :shock:
 

Guinness

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The Public do like Shiny Trains and a faster journey time. Mk3s can take ages to accelerate and decelerate into Commuter Stations. It could take the train up to an extra 15 minutes for a 60 mile journey than on a 321/350.
 

yorkie

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Chaz said:
The Public do like Shiny Trains and a faster journey time. Mk3s can take ages to accelerate and decelerate into Commuter Stations. It could take the train up to an extra 15 minutes for a 60 mile journey than on a 321/350.
I disagree. I think you'll find the Northampton fast journey times remain static with the change in traction!
 

David

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Chaz said:
The Public do like Shiny Trains and a faster journey time. Mk3s can take ages to accelerate and decelerate into Commuter Stations. It could take the train up to an extra 15 minutes for a 60 mile journey than on a 321/350.
I dis-agree as well. Class 90's can keep to the 91's timing from KX - Leeds.
 

yorkie

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Bonnie Prince Charlie said:
I think you need to grow up, lol
Stop flaming or provoking people.
Bonnie Prince Charlie said:
The public like shiney new trains.
Irrelevant IMO.
Bonnie Prince Charlie said:
Besides, its a commuter train, and MK3s are not really that good for the job.
Depends how you define "commuter", arguably some of GNERs trains are for "commuters", people do commute on Mk3s. The trains are well loaded but not excessively so, there's no need for a type of unit that is designed for a lot of standees.
Bonnie Prince Charlie said:
The World goes on, things have to be replaced some time or another.
Can we afford to scrap trains, or store trains, long before they are life-expired?
Bonnie Prince Charlie said:
We gota be a 21st century railway with 21st century stock, not a 21st century railway with 19th century stock! Go figuire !!!
So the 1980s were the 19th century? wow!
 

Guinness

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Harry Potter said:
Chaz said:
The Public do like Shiny Trains and a faster journey time. Mk3s can take ages to accelerate and decelerate into Commuter Stations. It could take the train up to an extra 15 minutes for a 60 mile journey than on a 321/350.
I dis-agree as well. Class 90's can keep to the 91's timing from KX - Leeds.

Depends on the amount of slack in the timetable.
 

yorkie

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Bonnie Prince Charlie said:
One of the cobblers is due to be stepped down, i think a 12 car 321 is to take over
Unlikely as 321s are banished from the fast lines (and for good reason), except contra-peak.
 

Guinness

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yorkie said:
Bonnie Prince Charlie said:
One of the cobblers is due to be stepped down, i think a 12 car 321 is to take over
Unlikely as 321s are banished from the fast lines (and for good reason), except contra-peak.

No it had. I posted about it a couple of days ago in RailGen. Any paticular reason they're off the fast lines?
 

David

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Bonnie Prince Charlie said:
I think you need to grow up, lol
Follow my example. I have been on the forums about the same amount of time, and a state my opinion, sometimes quite firmly. But I do not go and insult people in the process.
 

yorkie

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Chaz said:
Harry Potter said:
...Class 90's can keep to the 91's timing from KX - Leeds.

Depends on the amount of slack in the timetable.
To clarify, Class 90s can keep to the timetable of an all-stations (or near enough) Class 91.

This is because the 90s are geared for faster acceleration, so the more stops in the service the more easily the 90 can keep up. Slack isn't needed providing it is an all-stopper.

If you put a 90 on the Yorkshire Pullman it would be 15mph slower most of the time so it then would not be able to keep up, the slack time might be enough to make it 'on time' at it's final destination though. But of course this would never happen as GNER would not diagram it that way.
 

yorkie

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London Tube said:
Which all basically adds up to ticket prices rising by half :roll:
Sorry, just seen this. No they can't do that, as the fares are regulated. It means taxpayers will probably pay more subsidy. (Subsidy has been increasing for a long time now, due to massive cost escalation, which many people think we should ignore, and some people even flame me for highlighting the problem)
 
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AlexS said:
Bonnie Prince Charlie:

I'm telling you to be quiet and behave. Carry on as you are, and consider yourself the recipient of a strike or two.

Their was one comment which was slighlty off the mark, so technically if i carryed on as i am I would be a good boy, so giving me a strike would be the wrong thing dont ya think?
 
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