Colas Class 43s

[ExRes]

I don't think that this has been put on another existing thread, apologies if it has. WNXX (subscription section) report today that 43050 & 43060 have been transferred from SBXL (Porterbrook Stored Locomotives) to Colas COTS pool along with the 67s and 37s used on test trains

 

[Townsend Hook]

They’re on a short term lease to explore the possibility of 43s displacing 37s (and potentially 67s) from the PLPR infrastructure monitoring trains.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

They’re on a short term lease to explore the possibility of 43s displacing 37s (and potentially 67s) from the PLPR infrastructure monitoring trains.

So are you saying similar to the Yellow Train that is already in existence? Perhaps even specializing in embankment/Cuttings/drainage etc in view of the Stonehaven incident?

 

[DB]

So are you saying similar to the Yellow Train that is already in existence? Perhaps even specializing in embankment/Cuttings/drainage etc in view of the Stonehaven incident?

Sort of. That one uses mk3s. The other sets are mk2s, but they have their own gensets, so the power cars would just be haulage. Only change needed would be through wiring, assuming they wanted both power cars providing traction.

 

[Townsend Hook]

So are you saying similar to the Yellow Train that is already in existence? Perhaps even specializing in embankment/Cuttings/drainage etc in view of the Stonehaven incident?

The PLPR trains already exist, and have done for some years, they carry out the same track recording functions as the New Measurement Train (albeit with slightly different equipment), with Mk2 vehicles at obviously a lower speed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2020 ==

Only change needed would be through wiring, assuming they wanted both power cars providing traction.

Through-wiring the PLPR sets is the plan, or so the Colas infrastructure monitoring drivers tell me.

 

[hst43102]

Slightly OT, but have HSTs ever been used to haul anything other than Mk3s?

 

[43096]

Slightly OT, but have HSTs ever been used to haul anything other than Mk3s?

The initial incarnation of the NMT had two Mark 2s in the formation.

 

[DB]

Slightly OT, but have HSTs ever been used to haul anything other than Mk3s?

HST trailers are the only ordinary passenger stock which uses direct 3-phase supply*, so the power cars can't supply to anything which uses standard ETS.

The prototype HST had a Mk1 kitchen car in it initially (although at that point the set was using standard ETS). As 43096 notes, the first incarnation of the NMT had a couple of Mk2s, but all the NR sets (including the NMT) have onboard generators so don't need an ETS supply - and actually, I believe the generator does supply 3-phase - the sets have all been rewired for it.

*The Royal Scotsman set seems to use 3-phase, supplied from an onboard generator. The Royal Train appears to be dual wired, for standard ETS from the loco or 3-phase from the onboard generator.

 

[43096]

HST trailers are the only ordinary passenger stock which uses direct 3-phase supply*, so the power cars can't supply to anything which uses standard ETS.

The prototype HST had a Mk1 kitchen car in it initially (although at that point the set was using standard ETS). As 43096 notes, the first incarnation of the NMT had a couple of Mk2s, but all the NR sets (including the NMT) have onboard generators so don't need an ETS supply - and actually, I believe the generator does supply 3-phase - the sets have all been rewired for it.

*The Royal Scotsman set seems to use 3-phase, supplied from an onboard generator. The Royal Train appears to be dual wired, for standard ETS from the loco or 3-phase from the onboard generator.

And of course power cars have hauled various barrier vehicles around of Mark 1 and 2 types. 41001 hauled Mark 2s at various times, and also shunted some freight wagons around Leicester depot at one point.

 

[rebmcr]

Slightly OT, but have HSTs ever been used to haul anything other than Mk3s?

Mk4s when the 225s were being introduced. Originally they were just being used as surrogate DVTs but it was found that the engines idling all day was bad for them.

 

[43096]

Mk4s when the 225s were being introduced. Originally they were just being used as surrogate DVTs but it was found that the engines idling all day was bad for them.

It was the other way round: a Class 91 replacing one power car on an HST set.

They were used for some high speed testing of Mark 4s as part of their acceptance programme, though.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Mk4s when the 225s were being introduced. Originally they were just being used as surrogate DVTs but it was found that the engines idling all day was bad for them.

Thought they only worked with HST trailers, not with Mk4s. 43s wouldn't be able to provide ETS to a Mk4 set.

 

[Richard Scott]

Slightly OT, but have HSTs ever been used to haul anything other than Mk3s?

They have been placed back to back and used to rescue occasional failure. Typically think it was the Paddington Penzance sleepers so all mark 3 stock but of normal loco hauled variety.

 

[NormyFGW]

Slightly OT, but have HSTs ever been used to haul anything other than Mk3s? Having worked a full HST set from Paddington to Hereford around 19 years ago, the set was due to run ECS back to SPM Depot via Bristol Temple Meads. This was a nightly diagram at the time, but on this particular night, our set developed a fault that meant it could not be driven from the leading power car, and we only made it as far as Abergavenny. We changed ends, and set about returning to Bristol via Hereford, Worcester and Cheltenham, only to be stopped at Hereford and informed that due to signalling issues, the route via Worcester was closed. We then had over a 2 hour wait at Hereford waiting for 2 HST power cars coupled back to back, to travel up from SPM Depot to us, couple up, and drag the entire convoy back to SPM. It's a shame that this happened in the early hours of the morning, as it would no doubt have been a photographers delight to see a pair of power cars (43185/151) back to back with a full 2+8 set in tow, hurtliing down the bank and around Maindee curve on its way back to Bristol.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

The Brecknell Willis and RTC chaps used a couple of HST power cars do to the aerodynamic testing on the BR/BW High Speed pantograph, the old Prometheus lab car (an ex Mk.1 coach, subsequently given a pair of BT10 bogies) was the jam in the power car sandwich.

Photo at http://www.traintesting.com/lab 6.htm

 

[BRX]

Have Colas had the HST powercars out yet?

Is their plan to retire the 37s altogether fairly soon?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Have Colas had the HST powercars out yet?

Is their plan to retire the 37s altogether fairly soon?

Is it only testing and trials at the moment to see whether using power cars works for their trains.

 

[IamTrainsYT]

Could this by any chance be them? Pathed as a PLPR test train. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U05213/2020-10-18/detailed

 

[matt]

Could this by any chance be them? Pathed as a PLPR test train. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U05213/2020-10-18/detailed

No this is

Realtime Trains - 512J 1114 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail)

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

However it was due to run yesterday but didn't

 

[Mollman]

No this is

Realtime Trains - 512J 1114 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail)

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

However it was due to run yesterday but didn't

Did run today though:
https://twitter.com/railcamlive/sta...on^timelinechrome&ref_url=https://railcam.uk/

 

[IamTrainsYT]

Could this by any chance be them? Pathed as a PLPR test train. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U05213/2020-10-18/detailed

On the move, indeee 43050 + 43060

 

[jopsuk]

I know they've given them new logos, but I wonder if they'll do a full repaint, and if so will they vary it from the standard (on their other locos) where the orange end is always to the right?

 

[IamTrainsYT]

here they are through Chinley

 

[Wyrleybart]

I know they've given them new logos, but I wonder if they'll do a full repaint, and if so will they vary it from the standard (on their other locos) where the orange end is always to the right?

Or they could just paint them yellow to match the stock they intend to work with.

 

[Western Sunset]

The prototype power cars have also hauled APT-P stock.

 

[supervc-10]

Very odd seeing 43s hauling Mk.2s!

 

[Alanko]

I'm trying to picture HSTs in Colas livery.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Or they could just paint them yellow to match the stock they intend to work with.

Unlikely. The three yellow powercars which operate the New Measurement Train are leased directly to Network Rail, Colas are simply contracted to operate them, which is why they carry Network Rail Livery. 43050 and 060 are leased to Colas and, if they stay long term, will almost certainly receive Colas house colours, as with the 37s and 67s used with the infrastructure monitoring fleet.

 

[DB]

Unlikely. The three yellow powercars which operate the New Measurement Train are leased directly to Network Rail, Colas are simply contracted to operate them, which is why they carry Network Rail Livery. 43050 and 060 are leased to Colas and, if they stay long term, will almost certainly receive Colas house colours, as with the 37s and 67s used with the infrastructure monitoring fleet.

If that happens, I wonder whether they will buy them outright? So far as I understand it that's their usual policy (the two 67s were bought off DB).

 

[Townsend Hook]

If that happens, I wonder whether they will buy them outright? So far as I understand it that's their usual policy (the two 67s were bought off DB).

Quite the contrary: in 2018 the majority of the Colas loco fleet including the 67s were sold to Beacon Rail and leased back (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/beacon-rail-buys-colas-rail-fleet.175393/). I can’t see Colas going too far out of their way to buy 43s outright.