Collision with tractor near Leominster (22/05/25)

[Mcr Warrior]

No service between Hereford and Craven Arms/Shrewsbury for today? (Friday 23rd May 2025)

 

[WirralLine]

No service between Hereford and Craven Arms/Shrewsbury for today? (Friday 23rd May 2025)

Last i heard was everything cancelled to be safe just incase its not cleared up, with scope to reinstate some level of service if time allows. Not checked any logs since yesterday however.

 

[AdamWW]

Last i heard was everything cancelled to be safe just incase its not cleared up, with scope to reinstate some level of service if time allows. Not checked any logs since yesterday however.

TfW is saying nothing at all running today, and they will "look to provide" another update at midday tomorrow.

 

[SWML9102]

TfW is saying nothing at all running today, and they will "look to provide" another update at midday tomorrow.

Exactly the same message as was posted yesterday evening. I wonder if "tomorrow" is actually today, they just haven't updated the wording.

 

[MidlandRail]

Now expected to be there around midnight however work not expected to start until early morning.

There’s a train there now I believe to work

 

[SWML9102]

From what can be seen from images and videos posted online, the DVT appears badly damaged (unsurprisingly). The cab area has buckled enough for the roof to have split open. If there is a spare to replace it, I would be surprised if it's not written off. Hopefully the rest of the set is ok. Given the impact it has stood up well and no doubt limited the passenger and staff injuries.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Loco Hauled Coaching Stock. It's one of the (many!) Terms used to reference them.

Although a misnomer when the DVT is leading - LPCS ? (propelled)

 

[AdamWW]

From what can be seen from images and videos posted online, the DVT appears badly damaged (unsurprisingly). The cab area has buckled enough for the roof to have split open. If there is a spare to replace it, I would be surprised if it's not written off. Hopefully the rest of the set is ok. Given the impact it has stood up well and no doubt limited the passenger and staff injuries.

Does anyone know - in such circumstances does vehicle insurance have to pay out for the costs? Could come to quite a sum.

Exactly the same message as was posted yesterday evening. I wonder if "tomorrow" is actually today, they just haven't updated the wording.

I did wonder about that but decided to give them the benefit of the doubt, though it would sadly be quite typical of TfW to be unable to get even such a short message right.

It has now been changed to "today" so presumably someone originally changed the first "tomorrow" but missed the second one.

 

[37052 xb mr]

From what can be seen from images and videos posted online, the DVT appears badly damaged (unsurprisingly). The cab area has buckled enough for the roof to have split open. If there is a spare to replace it, I would be surprised if it's not written off. Hopefully the rest of the set is ok. Given the impact it has stood up well and no doubt limited the passenger and staff injuries.

From what I have seen
There is no roof split
The windscreen is still intact
And both cab doors where able to open, there is some damage between the bottom of the windshield & door.

 

[Anonymous10]

From what can be seen from images and videos posted online, the DVT appears badly damaged (unsurprisingly). The cab area has buckled enough for the roof to have split open. If there is a spare to replace it, I would be surprised if it's not written off. Hopefully the rest of the set is ok. Given the impact it has stood up well and no doubt limited the passenger and staff injuries.

I wonder if this will lead to tfw purchasing another dvt or mk4 sets from LNER when theirs are replaced.

 

[hwl]

Does anyone know - in such circumstances does vehicle insurance have to pay out for the costs? Could come to quite a sum.

If the tractor driver has crossed without authorisation and the crossing was working.

NR can also recover the payments it has to make to the operators for not being able to run trains for several days (an insurer decided to try fight NR after a badly loaded car transporter arc'd the OHLE on an ECML LC and fried the HGV tractor unit and cars on the trailer blocking the LC for very long time resulting in NR having to make huge payments to operators, the insurer lost and NR have a nice bit of case law to wave at other insurers).
The payments after Great Heck total over £60m after about 9 years (smaller sums with reported in the intervening years).
Insurers really hate vehicle on track incidents because they are very expensive and they don't have much to potentially dispute.

 

[AdamWW]

If the tractor driver has crossed without authorisation and the crossing was working.

NR can also recover the payments it has to make to the operators for not being able to run trains for several days (an insurer decided to try fight NR after a badly loaded car transporter arc'd the OHLE on an ECML LC and fried the HGV tractor unit and cars on the trailer blocking the LC for very long time resulting in NR having to make huge payments to operators, the insurer lost and NR have a nice bit of case law to wave at other insurers).
The payments after Great Heck total over £60m after about 9 years (smaller sums with reported in the intervening years).
Insurers really hate vehicle on track incidents because they are very expensive and they don't have much to potentially dispute.

Thanks. Most informative.

And I should indeed have specified that this would only be if the tractor driver was to blame - which of course we don't know although it can be tempting to jump to conclusions.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Assuming the tractor driver was insured. No legal requirement if it was an occupation crossing rather than a public highway.

Scarily similar to the crash at Moreton-on-Lugg just down the line (2010 iirc). Seems to be a different cause (pure speculation of course) and if the farmer's at fault, I doubt RAIB will get involved? Not an expert.

More like the one in the same area where a train hit a minibus full of farm workers on an occupation crossing

 

[LowLevel]

Don't assume the tractor driver was to blame solely or in part - the level of involvement with ORR and RAIB from previous incidents suggests that that is not necessarily the case. Best to wait for an update in due course I think.

 

[E100]

Much as I do love the 225 sets, I am especially thankful this happened on a lower speed line rather than a higher speed (100mph+). The consequences to the train being propelled at a higher speed would presumably have been more severe with the lighter DVT as we have unfortunately seen with a number of incidents. Relegating these to lower speed lines I can only presume has lowered the risk profile somewhat associated with propelling.

It's good that thankfully it appears that physical injuries are minor and I hope the driver is ok mentally as well.

 

[htwestern]

I wonder if this will lead to tfw purchasing another dvt or mk4 sets from LNER when theirs are replaced.

Are there still those unused Mk4 coaches parked at Barton Hill? I’m pretty sure they belong to TfW now

 

[driverd]

Much as I do love the 225 sets, I am especially thankful this happened on a lower speed line rather than a higher speed (100mph+). The consequences to the train being propelled at a higher speed would presumably have been more severe with the lighter DVT as we have unfortunately seen with a number of incidents. Relegating these to lower speed lines I can only presume has lowered the risk profile somewhat associated with propelling.

Honestly, the DVT has stood up to this impact far better than I would have expected.

Don't forget that prior incidents involving DVTs will have lead to design changes to them. Perhaps this accident looks to be proof of this.

At this stage, we dont have enough information to make a meaningful comparison, but when you consider the impact damage to sprinter/170 units involved in similar accidents, I'd say the DVT has performed impressively.

It's good that thankfully it appears that physical injuries are minor and I hope the driver is ok mentally as well.

Absolutely. I think, in the DVTs further defence, having an extra vehicle leading the train that is not for passenger use can only help to work in favour of reducing injuries.

 

[SWML9102]

From what I have seen
There is no roof split
The windscreen is still intact
And both cab doors where able to open, there is some damage between the bottom of the windshield & door.

There is drone footage on the Sky News, which appears to show (but I suppose could be an optical illusion) the DVT roof folded slightly down and split side to side above the front windows. Also severe damage to the window pillars. Sorry not sure how to link the video.

 

[Lewisham2221]

There is drone footage on the Sky News, which appears to show (but I suppose could be an optical illusion) the DVT roof folded slightly down and split side to side above the front windows. Also severe damage to the window pillars. Sorry not sure how to link the video.

Video linked to in post #62 - also looks like the windscreen on the secondmans side has been pushed in.

 

[Questions]

Cause -
The driver crossed without authorisation either he didn’t like the signaller saying wait or he didn’t phone up
The signaller incorrectly gave authorisation
The driver was given authority to cross but took longer than agreed (at our crossing we get asked every time by the signaller how long it will take to cross and close both gates).

Which one, we will soon find out.
But the arrest of a 32 year old male who presumably was the tractor driver may give an indication.

 

[AndrewE]

Assuming the tractor driver was insured. No legal requirement if it was an occupation crossing rather than a public highway.

But if it was a contractor (and they were at fault) then their business should have 3rd party liability insurance which should cover it... Same goes for the farmer I suppose.

 

[Questions]

Depends

If it’s a self employed labourer / driver which a lot of industrial farms use, they won’t have individual insurance nor vehicle insurance as the tractor may never go on public roads

If you go after them individually they will be advised to declare bankruptcy

Likewise the employment agency will liquidate and recommence the following day under a new name serving the same contracts.

Seen it all before

The only difference in this instance is the person or persons at fault may be prosecuted

 

[37052 xb mr]

Are there still those unused Mk4 coaches parked at Barton Hill? I’m pretty sure they belong to TfW now

TFW have always had a spare set of coaches which is now at Barrow Hill
Set HD08, it is being returned to
Serviceable use as the other sets
Will require major exam & overhaul
Soon.

Spare coaches are, 10305, 11316, 12215,12308, 12526,
DVTs 82204, 82220

 

[43096]

I wonder if this will lead to tfw purchasing another dvt or mk4 sets from LNER when theirs are replaced.

They can’t purchase them from LNER because LNER don’t own them.

 

[westcoaster]

A drone view shows the rear of the train still on the crossing, the railway appears quite straight there so maybe the train driver had seen the tractor and was already braking

Hopefully this is what happened, lowering the speed significantly. But in the pictures and video I can't see where the tractor ended up.

 

[norbitonflyer]

You very likely could be right. So, where's the tractor ended up?!

Presumably the green one in the field next to the track

 

[AlterEgo]

Cause -
The driver crossed without authorisation either he didn’t like the signaller saying wait or he didn’t phone up
The signaller incorrectly gave authorisation
The driver was given authority to cross but took longer than agreed (at our crossing we get asked every time by the signaller how long it will take to cross and close both gates).

Which one, we will soon find out.
But the arrest of a 32 year old male who presumably was the tractor driver may give an indication.

We don’t know who has been arrested yet. It could be the signaller (see Redcar!).

 

[norbitonflyer]

Kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the speed, so between 90 and 125, you have an increase in KE of 92.9%.

The work done in stopping an object is equal to force x distance, and this equals the kinetic energy of the object. So, to stop in the same distance from 125 compared to 90, the braking force would need to be 92.9% higher.

Edit: what @Bald Rick said as well!

One way of looking at it is that at a constant rate of retardation it takes as long to slow from 100mph to 50mph as it does to slow from 50mph to zero, but the average speeds in those two situations are respectively 75mph and 25mph, and therefore the distances covered are also in the ratio of 3:1 - so the distance covered in slowing from 100 to zero is four times (ie 3+1) the distance covered in slowing from 50 to zero.

From what can be seen from images and videos posted online, the DVT appears badly damaged (unsurprisingly). The cab area has buckled enough for the roof to have split open. If there is a spare to replace it, I would be surprised if it's not written off. Hopefully the rest of the set is ok. Given the impact it has stood up well and no doubt limited the passenger and staff injuries.

Difficult to see from the drone footage exactly how much damage there was, as the cab is covered in silage, but there does appear to be damaged fibreglass on the right hand side ahead of the door. Of course, this could be a fairing over a stronger undamaged structure underneath.

 

[Envoy]

Seems to me that TFW/Network Rail should take a stand at the Royal Welsh Show in Builth Wells being as such crashes are happening all too often.

Here is one near Kidwelly in 2011:>

"The 08:30 service from Manchester crashed into it at about 13:30 GMT.

The court heard the farmer had parked the vehicle while he went to feed his horses".

Kidwelly train crash farmer 'incredibly stupid'

A judge tells a farmer he was "incredibly stupid" for parking his trailer on a railway line, after it was hit by a train as he fed horses in a nearby field.

www.bbc.co.uk

And here is another from 2013:>

"A lorry driver who caused a train crash at a West Wales level crossing after he ignored safety and warning signs has been given a suspended sentence".

Suspended sentence for lorry driver who caused rail crossing crash

A lorry driver who caused a train crash at a West Wales level crossing after he ignored safety and warning signs has been given a suspended sentence.

www.tenby-today.co.uk

 

[Towers]

Cause -
The driver crossed without authorisation either he didn’t like the signaller saying wait or he didn’t phone up
The signaller incorrectly gave authorisation
The driver was given authority to cross but took longer than agreed (at our crossing we get asked every time by the signaller how long it will take to cross and close both gates).

Which one, we will soon find out.
But the arrest of a 32 year old male who presumably was the tractor driver may give an indication.

Surely there’s a requirement for the user to call back or otherwise indicate to the signaller when they’re clear? Rather than the signaller taking their estimated time as gospel?

Seems to me that TFW/Network Rail should take a stand at the Royal Welsh Show in Builth Wells being as such crashes are happening all too often.

Here is one near Kidwelly in 2011:>

Kidwelly train crash farmer 'incredibly stupid'

A judge tells a farmer he was "incredibly stupid" for parking his trailer on a railway line, after it was hit by a train as he fed horses in a nearby field.

www.bbc.co.uk

That is utterly shocking, absolutely unbelievable behaviour!