colour blindness, please advice!!

[erikata]

I have been offered a job as customer service assistant (platform) by virgin, I am now due a medical assessment. It says that included in the medical will be a colour vision test. And I am getting worried as I am mildly colour blind. I can see the difference between red and green on a traffic light, and it doesn't affect me in my every day life, however when I have done colour blindness tests on the phone or computer it shows I am mildly colour blind, does anyone know if this would make them withdraw the job offer?
I do understand that drivers need perfect colour vision, but is it necessary to have perfect colour vision as a customer service assistant? I will be working with ticketing and on the platform. I would really appreciate advice on this

 

[Nic nic]

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/safety-statement.aspx#36236 I am guessing that this is pretty much industry standard.

 

[Wolf]

Hi

Generally speaking any role which is safety critical will require a medical. I think the standards do vary and may not be as strict for drivers as platfrom staff but even platfrom staff will have to pass a colour blind test if they are in anyway responsible for dispatching trains as they have to read signal aspects and 'OFF' /'CD' indicators on platforms. Having said that the colourblindess test is a standard test which isnt too hard to pass so slight colour blindness may not be an issue. It basically consists of working through a book picking out numbers made up by coloured dots which are a different colour to the background and as long as you can make out the difference between red blue and green then you likely would pass it ok.

 

[Foxcote]

For many years the rail industry used what is known as the Ishihara test. I understand that this is still used. Please google for examples and information.
Best of luck with your medical

 

[Pumbaa]

If your role involves dispatch (at a guess, yes, but I have no idea how the grades work with Virgin) then I would strongly advise you declare it. I appreciate it may be unwelcome news, but the industry is (rightly) safety conscious. If you didn't declare it and had an incident, your neck would be the first on the line. For both your sake and your potential future colleagues, please declare it. I know I would feel uneasy if I knew one of my colleagues on the platform wasn't fully passed fit for their duties, and was there through a combination of luck and neglecting to declare their concerns.

 

[Smudge.Smith]

Just to add more confusion regarding colour blindness... I too have been told that I have 'mild' colour blindeness' - whatever that means. Many years ago, back in the day of British Rail Traction Trainees, I successfully passed the requirements and was offered the job subject to passing a medical. Off I went to Birmingham New Street (and was summarily dismissed on the spot. The reason??? I was told I had failed the Ishihara plate test and I was colour blind ! Now, this is where it gets interesting. Previously I had spent three years in the British Army (where an entry requirement was 'normal' colour vision). After my failure with BR, I then went on to serve 15 years in the Royal Air Force, where 'normal' colour vision is a requirement of entry. After that, I joined the Police, where 'normal' colour vision is a requirement for entry. Whilst I'm the first to admit that I seem to struggle with the Ishihara plates, I can point out and name colours along with anyone else, I have never had a problem identifying colours and I have yet to have an optician explain to me in a manner that I understand, what colours I 'cannot see'. Interestingly, I pass the Farnsworth & lantern test with ease. I suppose it all depends on what the employer / tester defines as 'normal'.

 

[TheEdge]

I have been offered a job as customer service assistant (platform) by virgin, I am now due a medical assessment. It says that included in the medical will be a colour vision test. And I am getting worried as I am mildly colour blind. I can see the difference between red and green on a traffic light, and it doesn't affect me in my every day life, however when I have done colour blindness tests on the phone or computer it shows I am mildly colour blind, does anyone know if this would make them withdraw the job offer?
I do understand that drivers need perfect colour vision, but is it necessary to have perfect colour vision as a customer service assistant? I will be working with ticketing and on the platform. I would really appreciate advice on this

Its not what you want to hear but go to the medical, don't declare mild or any other colour blindness but just do the tests. If you pass the Ishihara plates then easy, no problem, you meet the required standard, if you fail them then that's it, they'll withdraw the job offer.

But if you admit "self diagnosed" colour blindness they'll fail you without doing the tests.

 

[Smudge.Smith]

Its not what you want to hear but go to the medical, don't declare mild or any other colour blindness but just do the tests. If you pass the Ishihara plates then easy, no problem, you meet the required standard, if you fail them then that's it, they'll withdraw the job offer.

But if you admit "self diagnosed" colour blindness they'll fail you without doing the tests.

I agree ! Don't admit to anything. Just turn up on the day and do the test. Unfortunately, it seems the rail industry relies on this antiquated test to summarily cull the number of applicants it receives to more manageable numbers. A more modern approach would be to use a job related test... ie use a colour test that involves identifying lights / signals that you would see on the job - but this costs money. (I'm not a train driver and I have no knowledge of signalling on the railways, but I have yet to see a sign by the trackside that was composed of spots that required the driver to identify a number within it). According to research, 10% of the male population have some sort of colour deficiency. That's a lot of people who (for some like you and me) could possibly have been damn good train drivers. It's a cheap and effective way for HR to reduce number of applicants. You may feel that you are being unfairly disadvantaged but that's the industry. Applicants are ten a penny and they can afford to pick and choose. Go and do the test and the best of luck. If you fail, don't beat yourself up over it - move on and do something else. I've had three good careers for someone who is supposedly colour blind, where my role required someone with 'normal' colour vision.

 

[SWTCommuter]

when I have done colour blindness tests on the phone or computer it shows I am mildly colour blind

If you are not using a colour-calibrated monitor, you could be failing the tests due to deficiencies in the screen image rather than your vision.

 

[SPADTrap]

I agree ! Don't admit to anything. Just turn up on the day and do the test. Unfortunately, it seems the rail industry relies on this antiquated test to summarily cull the number of applicants it receives to more manageable numbers. A more modern approach would be to use a job related test... ie use a colour test that involves identifying lights / signals that you would see on the job - but this costs money. (I'm not a train driver and I have no knowledge of signalling on the railways, but I have yet to see a sign by the trackside that was composed of spots that required the driver to identify a number within it). According to research, 10% of the male population have some sort of colour deficiency. That's a lot of people who (for some like you and me) could possibly have been damn good train drivers. It's a cheap and effective way for HR to reduce number of applicants. You may feel that you are being unfairly disadvantaged but that's the industry. Applicants are ten a penny and they can afford to pick and choose. Go and do the test and the best of luck. If you fail, don't beat yourself up over it - move on and do something else. I've had three good careers for someone who is supposedly colour blind, where my role required someone with 'normal' colour vision.

With respect, how can you make these two statements:

A more modern approach would be to use a job related test... ie use a colour test that involves identifying lights / signals that you would see on the job - but this costs money

And then

(I'm not a train driver and I have no knowledge of signalling on the railways..

Sounds a bit silly, don't you think?

 

[455driver]

Basically it sounds like-

"I cant pass the current tests so they are unfair"

type of post to me.

Oh I know several people that would make excellent train drivers but because they are bad at tests and interviews (nerves) they have failed the (old) tests, is that unfair?
All of them are very calm in stressful/emergency situations but tests and interviews get to them big style.

 

[DunfordBridge]

I agree ! Don't admit to anything. Just turn up on the day and do the test. Unfortunately, it seems the rail industry relies on this antiquated test to summarily cull the number of applicants it receives to more manageable numbers. A more modern approach would be to use a job related test... ie use a colour test that involves identifying lights / signals that you would see on the job - but this costs money. (I'm not a train driver and I have no knowledge of signalling on the railways, but I have yet to see a sign by the trackside that was composed of spots that required the driver to identify a number within it). According to research, 10% of the male population have some sort of colour deficiency. That's a lot of people who (for some like you and me) could possibly have been damn good train drivers. It's a cheap and effective way for HR to reduce number of applicants. You may feel that you are being unfairly disadvantaged but that's the industry. Applicants are ten a penny and they can afford to pick and choose. Go and do the test and the best of luck. If you fail, don't beat yourself up over it - move on and do something else. I've had three good careers for someone who is supposedly colour blind, where my role required someone with 'normal' colour vision.

Quite witty, I like it.

I am not a train driver either but I would have thought that not only do you have to be able to discern colours that you will see on the railway, but I would have thought that you would also have to distinguish railway related colours from coloured lights that you may see adjacent to the railway such as street lighting, etc.

 

[Smudge.Smith]

With respect, how can you make these two statements:



And then



Sounds a bit silly, don't you think?

Not really. I have never seen spotty coloured cards used in a safety environment where you have been required to identify a number. However, I have been required to tell the difference between different colour lights during my military career... hence the Farnsworth test.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Basically it sounds like-

"I cant pass the current tests so they are unfair"

type of post to me.

Oh I know several people that would make excellent train drivers but because they are bad at tests and interviews (nerves) they have failed the (old) tests, is that unfair?
All of them are very calm in stressful/emergency situations but tests and interviews get to them big style.

Not really. If you read my post you will see that that I passed ishihara for three other professions requiring normal colour vision. Im just making a point that normal colour vision seems to have different meanings depending who is administering the test.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Quite witty, I like it.

I am not a train driver either but I would have thought that not only do you have to be able to discern colours that you will see on the railway, but I would have thought that you would also have to distinguish railway related colours from coloured lights that you may see adjacent to the railway such as street lighting, etc.

Please explain to me how identifying spotty numbers allows you to do that.

 

[Marton]

The legal test for seafarers is the lantern test. This tests the actual ability to see colours.

Ishihara is a screening test not a diagnostic one and should be used as such.


The problem is getting a lantern test. There are 3 in the UK. Southampton, Beverley and Aberdeen. When I last heard one was being cannibalised to keep the others working.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DunfordBridge]

Not really. I have never seen spotty coloured cards used in a safety environment where you have been required to identify a number. However, I have been required to tell the difference between different colour lights during my military career... hence the Farnsworth test.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Not really. If you read my post you will see that that I passed ishihara for three other professions requiring normal colour vision. Im just making a point that normal colour vision seems to have different meanings depending who is administering the test.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Please explain to me how identifying spotty numbers allows you to do that.

I really cannot explain how seeing spotty numbers can provide a suitable indicator of the ability to distinguish street lights from signals, for example, or discuss the merits of other tests for colour blindness as relating to railway applications as it is clearly outside my realm.

What I will say is that someone with perfect colour vision should be able to pass the 'numbers' test. I understand that the bone of contention is that those with mild colour deficiences may not pass the test and the results of the test are probably very subjective.

In this day of computers, I would have thought it would be a simple matter to devise a specialised test suitable for railway applications. What I would like to add to my contribution thus far is that there is also the issue of sunlight shining onto signals. That is probably not a probably to be experienced this week with the unseasonal weather but as you can appreciate, it is not quite so clear cut as been able to discern between red, yellow and green in fixed lighting.

 

[455driver]

The tests as they are serve their purpose so why spend money changing them?

 

[SPADTrap]

The tests as they are serve their purpose so why spend money changing them?

Ex 455?

 

[3141]

I am colour blind. It's basically red/green colour blindness but it extends to related colours such as brown and beige, and things that others tell me are mauve or purple generally look blue to me. So I think it's more than "slight" or "mild". I've just used an on-line test of eight circles and could not make out the numbers in any of them.

On the road I'm OK. I distinguish between red and amber on traffic lights because red is always at the top and it is darker than the amber in the middle. They are both different from the light at the bottom, which when I was much younger (65+ years ago) looked bluish to me, whereas today's LED lights look almost white.

I remember driving in Athens many years ago, where they had a very different sort of green which was much closer than the amber colour, so I had to rely more than here on its position. There are some countries that have a single light with a rotating lens, and I can find it difficult to know whether it's showing amber or red. I depend on my wife to advise me.

If I was driving a train I'd be OK with double yellows, because that's the only aspect where two lights show simultaneously. I wouldn't be confident about whether a light a mile ahead was showing single yellow or red. As I got closer I could probably decide accurately which one it was, but slowing the train in order to be able to stop if I concluded that it was red wouldn't help the public performance figures. I'd probably be all right with the greens....

If I was a member of the platform staff, I'd read the OFF and ON signs and if they are different colours (I've just started to wonder whether they are) that wouldn't matter. I might have more of a problem with platform repeater signals, but I'd probably get used to how the signals on the platforms I worked on looked, so not a great many trains would get despatched, or held back, while I worked out what aspect was being shown, or when I got it wrong.

However, these jobs depend on the people doing them knowing what's what exactly and immediately. I could probably be a guard and passed to drive a train in an emergency, since in that situation it would be acceptable to drive cautiously. But I have to accept that if I want to embark on a new career in my mid-seventies, train driving is not going to be it.

 

[Smudge.Smith]

Well, for me, I was told in 1985 by a British Rail optician that I am red / green colour blind (based on the Ishihara test). Strange that the Army optician failed to mention it in 1982 and the RAF optician failed to mention it in 1985. No optician or has been able to explain to me why it is that I can correctly identify red and green colours (so clearly I can see red and green and therefore I cannot be blind to those colours). As I have said previously, I am the first to admit that I have a problem with Ishihara plates, yet pass other tests with ease and no one will offer an valid explanation why. I only came on here to offer my personal experience to someone who requested help regarding a colour vision issue. To those who offer no constructive advice other than to suggest I am whinging about the loss of a job opportunity some thirty years ago, I would say this... I am glad I have served my country and now protect my community rather than sit on my arse driving a train all day ferrying people and freight from A to B. Also think on this, if you think I think the test 'unfair' I don't. I'm sure you wouldn't think it 'unfair' if I pulled you for speeding and gave you a ticket for doing 35mph in a 30mph limit. Them's the rules and that's what we live by.
@455Driver In your experience as a "qualified optician" and not a train driver, what purpose do the Ishahara plates serve? Do they serve the same purpose as required by the British Army, RAF and Police? Your quote neither qualifies or explains anything.

 

[DunfordBridge]

You can give out tickets left, right and centre for those people doing 35mph over significant stretches for all I care.

 

[455driver]

Well, for me, I was told in 1985 by a British Rail optician that I am red / green colour blind (based on the Ishihara test). Strange that the Army optician failed to mention it in 1982 and the RAF optician failed to mention it in 1985. No optician or has been able to explain to me why it is that I can correctly identify red and green colours (so clearly I can see red and green and therefore I cannot be blind to those colours). As I have said previously, I am the first to admit that I have a problem with Ishihara plates, yet pass other tests with ease and no one will offer an valid explanation why. I only came on here to offer my personal experience to someone who requested help regarding a colour vision issue. To those who offer no constructive advice other than to suggest I am whinging about the loss of a job opportunity some thirty years ago, I would say this... I am glad I have served my country and now protect my community rather than sit on my arse driving a train all day ferrying people and freight from A to B. Also think on this, if you think I think the test 'unfair' I don't. I'm sure you wouldn't think it 'unfair' if I pulled you for speeding and gave you a ticket for doing 35mph in a 30mph limit. Them's the rules and that's what we live by.
@455Driver In your experience as a "qualified optician" and not a train driver, what purpose do the Ishahara plates serve? Do they serve the same purpose as required by the British Army, RAF and Police? Your quote neither qualifies or explains anything.

You are such a hero! :roll:
All I do is ensure several hundred people can get to and from work safely every day!

Ah so you are one of those that stops me on my way to or from work at stupid oclock in the morning for a "nothing to worry about sir, just a routine vehicle check, have you been drinking" then!

Oh good luck with catching me speeding, I keep below the speed limits as it is more economical and reduces strain on the car. If I ever do stray over the limit then please feel free to dish out that ticket (with that smirky grin you all seem so good at) as I will deserve it for doing such a heanous thing, I mean it is a 'crime' solved and will be a great help with you getting them crime figures up wont it rather than go and catch 'real' criminals who actually cause harm to other people or property but it would obviously take a bit more effort wouldnt it, you know actually Police work, and its easier and more productive to catch them drivers who go 5mph over the limit at 4AM isnt it.

 

[Smudge.Smith]

You are such a hero! :roll:
All I do is ensure several hundred people can get to and from work safely every day!

Ah so you are one of those that stops me on my way to or from work at stupid oclock in the morning for a "nothing to worry about sir, just a routine vehicle check, have you been drinking" then!

Oh good luck with catching me speeding, I keep below the speed limits as it is more economical and reduces strain on the car. If I ever do stray over the limit then please feel free to dish out that ticket (with that smirky grin you all seem so good at) as I will deserve it for doing such a heanous thing, I mean it is a 'crime' solved and will be a great help with you getting them crime figures up wont it rather than go and catch 'real' criminals who actually cause harm to other people or property but it would obviously take a bit more effort wouldnt it, you know actually Police work, and its easier and more productive to catch them drivers who go 5mph over the limit at 4AM isnt it.

Yes I am one of those ! (Whatever !) As a Police officer I have scraped more people off the road like you with your attitude than I would like to remember. Please define "real criminal" in the legal sense. You obviously have an issue with the Police as defined by your last rant. As an experienced train driver I would like to think that you have learned something regarding speed, velocity, momentum, mass etc. As it seems you are not a qualified optician as you have failed to answer my question, I take it you have no experience of Police work and therefore your comment about making more effort and doing 'real' Police work is invalid also as you have no idea what it entails. But think on this, If I pulled you for speeding you may get off on a technicality ! I failed the Ishihara test in 1985 so surely the green car you are driving is actually red? I suspect you are the one of the first to cry if you need Police assistance. Let me see, that description you just offered of the person who just mugged you... did you say he had a red or green t shirt? Awfully sorry, but I just cant' tell the difference. That speeding miscreant who just ploughed into your family and wiped them out... did you say red or green car? Sorry mate they all look the same to me. Tell you what... you carry on doing your job and I'll do mine. The only difference is is that I offered something constructive for the OP to think on.

If you are representative of the rail industry then I am pleased I am not part of it. Enjoy your train driving... Maybe see you on the roads sometime?

 

[455driver]

Blah blah blah
If you are representative of the rail industry then I am pleased I am not part of it. Enjoy your train driving... Maybe see you on the roads sometime?

Only if you decide to stop me for a routine vehicle check and then instantly ask me if I have been drinking without carrying out the required vehicle check which was given as the reason for stopping me.

I dont like the Police much and despite giving them the name and full description of somebody who broke into my shed and stole a few power tools and then legged it when I opened the back door, nothing was done as there was no evidence despite his blood being all over the door because it wasnt worth taking any samples for such a low level crime.
So no I dont like the Police because as far as my experience of them is that they cant be bothered to do any proper Police work 'due to lack of manpower' but have more than enough manpower to follow me for many many miles down the A3 at stupid oclock in the morning (I even get off at a junction and then go straight back onto the A3 just to make sure they are following me ) and sometimes they will pull me up as stated at the beginning of this post.

You just carry on with your holier than thou attitude and I will carry on doing my job as well as sticking to all speed limits

This will be my last post on this subject as it has all been aired before and I cant be bothered with you so fill yer boots lad. :roll:

TTFN.

 

[Smudge.Smith]

This will be my last post on this subject as it has all been aired before and I cant be bothered with you so fill yer boots lad. :roll:

TTFN.[/QUOTE]

At least we agree on something. (And I am not your "lad").

 

[SPADTrap]

....rather than sit on my arse driving a train all day ferrying people and freight from A to B.

I think the following needs to be said: "I take it you have no experience of Train Driving and therefore your comment about "sitting on my arse driving a train all day ferrying people and freight from A to B" is invalid also as you have no idea what it entails.

I take it you have no experience of Police work and therefore your comment about making more effort and doing 'real' Police work is invalid also as you have no idea what it entails.

Just saying...

 

[TheVicLine]

Well that was entertaining

 

[Smudge.Smith]

I think the following needs to be said: "I take it you have no experience of Train Driving and therefore your comment about "sitting on my arse driving a train all day ferrying people and freight from A to B" is invalid also as you have no idea what it entails.




Just saying...

Your powers of deduction are amazing. (Unless the train set I had when I was nine counts?) In another career you would have made an excellent detective.
I presume that this thread has run it's course and the OP has a suitably qualified answer to their question.
What I have learned from this is that their seems to be a certain elitism amongst some train drivers ie "I can pass a test and you can't" type of bollox. I have also learned that a certain member on here doesn't like the Police based on his own prejudices and others just post for the sake of seeing their own thoughts in print.
So what if you "get people safely to and from work each day"? Bus drivers achieve the same result for half the pay. I'm sure that you sleep safe in your beds knowing that the paltry amount you contribute in your community tax pays my wages (complete with "smug grin" when appropriate).
Go and play with your trains with your elitist attitude... you are more likely to need the services of the Police than I am a train driver...and when that day comes... you may just end up with me.