Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

[Deerfold]

I understand Mr Temple has taken to Facebook over this, do not have access myself but apparently is claiming its due to a lack of timekeeping during the Harrogate Christmas Market at the beginning of December and wondering why Transdev were not equally picked on.

He's also been saying this on a local bulletin board. I'm not sure where on Facebook he's put it - it's not the company's page.

 

[96tommy]

If journeys were monitored when it was Christmas market time and roads are closed I understand Craig's frustration. I'm sure any company would struggle to keep time when a number of different events are occurring.

 

[SCH117X]

The only road closure for the Christmas Market was a non-bus route road. The X6/X6a ran pass it as well as Transdevs 6/X6 so may have been delayed due to increased congestion (pedestrians as well as vehicles) more so than the general increased congestion in the town. On the other hand time keeping of Connexions X6 is not always great due to its interworking with the X4 which uses an often stationary section of the A59 Skipton Road. To balance that Transdevs 6 is equally liable to delay due to knock on delays arising from interworking with the 2A, 2B and 3 - the 2B uses an even more stationary section of the A59.

 

[nesw]

If there are traffic problems then the onus is with the operator to mitigate against these delays. It's also wise to keep the TC informed of any instances of serious disruption caused by events.

I'd imagine that the bus incident at Harrogate Bus Station might also have contributed to the case, plus any other details that hasn't yet been publicised.

I doubt whether Mr. Temple is right in commenting about the hearing before it has taken place.

The link to his posts is : http://travelwestyorks.proboards.com/thread/1223/harrogate-coach-travel?page=19

 

[SCH117X]

Connexions have a number of timetable changes from 28 May (not that they will run any on that day as its Sunday) including on the X1 "Certain peak hour journeys are taken off to give more recovery time".

 

[theblackwatch]

Report on today's proceedings at http://www.harrogate-news.co.uk/2017/05/25/local-bus-company-fined-running-late-services/

Local Bus Company Fined For Running Late Services

The Office of Traffic Commissioner (North East of England) has today (25 May 2017) held a Public Inquest into Harrogate Coach Travel Ltd, a company that operates the Connexion buses.

The inquest was called to look at the findings following monitoring the punctuality of services.

A 10-day survey, by the Driver & Vehicle Standards Agency, had been undertaken between 14 November 2016 and 25 November 2016. They looked at the bus routes 8, 38, X52, X6, 940, X70 and 13.

In legislation a bus needs to be no earlier than 1 minute or no later than 5 minutes of the time in the timetable.

And 95% of services are required to be on-time to that definition.

 

[theblackwatch]

It seems a bit much that, reading what was said, the Traffic Commissioner seems to expect Connexions to issue a revised timetable when the Harrogate Christmas Market is taking place! I can't remember seeing other bus companies do that when events that will create traffic take place (other than perhaps the Great Yorkshire Show).

 

[Deerfold]

Connexions have a number of timetable changes from 28 May (not that they will run any on that day as its Sunday) including on the X1 "Certain peak hour journeys are taken off to give more recovery time".

Oddly, the news on their website say the 0750 journey from Wetherby to Tadcaster will no longer run on schooldays; however the journey does not appear at all in the new timetable.

 

[lejog]

Report on today's proceedings at http://www.harrogate-news.co.uk/2017/05/25/local-bus-company-fined-running-late-services/

A 10-day survey, by the Driver & Vehicle Standards Agency, had been undertaken between 14 November 2016 and 25 November 2016. They looked at the bus routes 8, 38, X52, X6, 940, X70 and 13.

In legislation a bus needs to be no earlier than 1 minute or no later than 5 minutes of the time in the timetable. And 95% of services are required to be on-time to that definition.

The standards agency undertook a 10 day survey, quite possibly Mon 14th to Friday 18th and Mon 21st to Friday 25th (unless the surveyors worked weekends), while the Harrogate Christmas Market ran from Thursday 17th to Sunday 20th, so possibly only covered 2 days of the survey?

Also 7 routes were surveyed of which only 3 run through Harrogate?

Its not too surprising the Traffic Commisioner came to these conclusions:

Traffic Commissioner, Miles Dorrington considered the matter for 45-minutes and concluded to the inquest:-

Sampling of bus times was sufficient and representative
The Christmas Market is a known factor every year, so should have been considered by Connexions
Even if the punctuality figures are adjusted, based on Connexions challenge, they still remain less then 95%
It is appropriate to apply a proportionate fine of £50 per vehicle or £1700 in total, payable within 42 days

 

[SCH117X]

It seems a bit much that, reading what was said, the Traffic Commissioner seems to expect Connexions to issue a revised timetable when the Harrogate Christmas Market is taking place! I can't remember seeing other bus companies do that when events that will create traffic take place (other than perhaps the Great Yorkshire Show).

Or have extra vehicles on hand to maintain the timetable. What I do not get is them parking at vehicle at the bus station for a large part of the day to take up a school run when if it was a suitable vehicle it could be used to take the place of a late running vehicle when a crew change is due, but then they do not have any supervisor staff there to make such a decision.

 

[Stan Drews]

Connexions have a number of timetable changes from 28 May (not that they will run any on that day as its Sunday) including on the X1 "Certain peak hour journeys are taken off to give more recovery time".

That's just some spin to cover creating a few 'school gaps' in some local services. It would appear that they are reducing their PVR by 3, and is presumably why they have acquired some low-floor DDs to ensure 'DDA' compliance.

 

[spuddie]

Was the Traffic Commisioner French?

On a serious note it does seem a little harsh to have done the timings at this point when traffic was known to be busy but you do wonder if the bus station incident prompted some further investigation. Equally I can see the argument of if you know an event causes delays then try and do something to help prevent it - eg lay an extra bus on.

 

[theblackwatch]

Or have extra vehicles on hand to maintain the timetable. What I do not get is them parking at vehicle at the bus station for a large part of the day to take up a school run when if it was a suitable vehicle it could be used to take the place of a late running vehicle when a crew change is due, but then they do not have any supervisor staff there to make such a decision.

I'm not sure having extra vehicles would prevent buses from arriving at Harrogate bus station late? (I'm assuming this survey is of buses arriving at their destination in the same way train punctuality is measured, but perhaps it's departures, midpoint or a mix of all 3.)

 

[Stan Drews]

Arrival times are rarely considered by the TC when measuring bus service performance. It will normally be departure times, or en route timing points.
Where delays are anticipated in advance, particularly due to special events, the TC won't necessarily expect an entirely different timetable to be put in place. However, they will certainly be looking for a reasonable level of effort being made to mitigate against ongoing delays. So, if an operator was able to demonstrate that they brought in extra resources, and departures from a key point (e.g. bus stn?) were on time, then they are likely to get a more favourable hearing, or may not even be taken to a PI. That has certainly been my experience when 'defending' observations taken by TC staff.

 

[SCH117X]

Was the Traffic Commisioner French?

On a serious note it does seem a little harsh to have done the timings at this point when traffic was known to be busy but you do wonder if the bus station incident prompted some further investigation. Equally I can see the argument of if you know an event causes delays then try and do something to help prevent it - eg lay an extra bus on.

As has been pointed out above in the thread only 3 services that they looked at run in Harrogate - the X52 from Ilkley, the X70 from Wetherby/Tadcaster/York as a continuation of the 412 and the X6.
The 8 and 38 are Leeds based services, the 13 York and the 940 Otley so a pretty wide spread of their operations.

Meanwhile the A59 is shut from 10pm tonight to to 6am on Tuesday at Starbeck level crossing, Transdev have for a number of days been tweeting about it and have diversion details on their web site for their Route 1 services but Connexions to date have not given any details for the X1 but as that will only be affected on the Saturday maybe they don't see any point in giving any details out.

 

[theblackwatch]

Arrival times are rarely considered by the TC when measuring bus service performance. It will normally be departure times, or en route timing points.
Where delays are anticipated in advance, particularly due to special events, the TC won't necessarily expect an entirely different timetable to be put in place. However, they will certainly be looking for a reasonable level of effort being made to mitigate against ongoing delays. So, if an operator was able to demonstrate that they brought in extra resources, and departures from a key point (e.g. bus stn?) were on time, then they are likely to get a more favourable hearing, or may not even be taken to a PI. That has certainly been my experience when 'defending' observations taken by TC staff.

Thanks, interesting to know - rather different from the way train performance is measured.

 

[theblackwatch]

Meanwhile the A59 is shut from 10pm tonight to to 6am on Tuesday at Starbeck level crossing, Transdev have for a number of days been tweeting about it and have diversion details on their web site for their Route 1 services but Connexions to date have not given any details for the X1 but as that will only be affected on the Saturday maybe they don't see any point in giving any details out.

Nothing up at Starbeck crossing bus stop about it from either company as of 30 mins ago.

 

[SCH117X]

Nothing up at Starbeck crossing bus stop about it from either company as of 30 mins ago.

Updating individual bus stop info of diversions etc does seem to be a weakness of the otherwise #amazing Transdev operation and in all honestly if Connexions did so it really would be astonishing.

 

[SCH117X]

Maintenance issue on a Connexions bus.

Extracts from https://www.strayfm.com/news/local-...pils-taken-to-hospital-over-school-bus-smell/

At least eight pupils have been taken to hospital in Harrogate after complaining of a strange smell on their school bus.

Students were travelling on the X11, which serves St John Fisher Catholic High School and St Aidan's High School.

The service is run by Connexions buses.

After sending the bus to the depot, it is understood that the cause of the problem was found to be a blown water hose which had caused steam to leak into the bus.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Maintenance issue on a Connexions bus.

From the article:

Head of School Jo Langstaff told Stray FM: "We're obviously speaking to the bus company about exactly what happened, but the reports from parents and students themselves is that they're all tired, so they've gone home, but they seem medically to be well, so that's the most important thing and we're obviously relieved about that."

Those kids are clearly just taking the ****. Good on them, taking any excuse for a day off school, but hardly anything worth reporting.

 

[darloscott]

From the article:



Those kids are clearly just taking the ****. Good on them, taking any excuse for a day off school, but hardly anything worth reporting.

Exactly, every company suffers from water leaks every now and then. Parts wear out, no big deal.

 

[AndrewP]

Nice touch from Connexions today running double deckers to cope with demand for the Knaresborough Bed Race which was fantastic as ever

 

[SCH117X]

Nice touch from Connexions today running double deckers to cope with demand for the Knaresborough Bed Race which was fantastic as ever

They have had one or more double decker on the X1 during the week = pictures on Flickr show one with an invisible destination display #unamazing in Transdev speak.

 

[96tommy]

They have had one or more double decker on the X1 during the week = pictures on Flickr show one with an invisible destination display #unamazing in Transdev speak.

Displays not always shown by camera........

I agree with the earlier post, well done to Connexions for increasing capacity on a busy day. Looking forward to trying the X70 in the next couple of weeks, not been on since its early days.

 

[Tetchytyke]

They have had one or more double decker on the X1 during the week = pictures on Flickr show one with an invisible destination display #unamazing in Transdev speak.

It depends on the refresh rate of the blind as to whether it shows on a photo, you can't read anything at all into that (unless it's a fabric roller blind, if course!).

 

[SCH117X]

Agree with the above comments re displays not showing on pictures but read the photographers comments - "indecipherable destination display". The photo I linked is not the only one and none have a decipherable display. Its a problem Connexions seem to suffer with, vehicles with elderly destination displays that need renewing. Most of the Scania Flolines (assuming they are still using them) have displays that faint that with direct sunlight on them they become invisible.

 

[Stan Drews]

Agree with the above comments re displays not showing on pictures but read the photographers comments - "indecipherable destination display". The photo I linked is not the only one and none have a decipherable display. Its a problem Connexions seem to suffer with, vehicles with elderly destination displays that need renewing. Most of the Scania Flolines (assuming they are still using them) have displays that faint that with direct sunlight on them they become invisible.

The ex Stagecoach East Scotland Volvo B7TLs all had orange LED Hanover blinds fitted front/side/rear. However, they could have been removed prior to sale - although the photos I've seen appear to suggest they remain in situ.

 

[leedslad82]

Well seems connextions have won one battle. Transdev from July are withdrawing the 62 between otley and Harrogate

 

[theblackwatch]

Well seems connextions have won one battle. Transdev from July are withdrawing the 62 between otley and Harrogate

Looks like a few other early morning/late evening services around Keighley are also being discontinued too - see links from http://www.keighleybus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2017

 

[SCH117X]

The axing of the 62 between Otley and Harrogate is a bit like one hand not knowing what the other is doing as they have just launched a "amazing days in Yorkshire 2017" booklet and the 62 is an obvious key link in their network, especially as the map in the booklet ignores the 923 between Otley and Wetherby. Suppose it will at last mean the ending of the childish destination display messages on the X52.