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Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

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Bantamzen

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Because buses are deregulated, Metro have no authority to say what operators should and shouldn't run at what times.

That is true, however this notwithstanding they are still responsible for transport policy in the region and as such they should not be promoting a bus war, or at least the escalation of it into their area. They should be stipulating that companies who engage in such tactics will not have their services promoted and advertised in timetables or indeed use Metro bus stops to wage this silly war.

Frankly from my experience of the two operators, if I were to be a regular user of this service I would give Connexions a serious serve. For all their bravado and flag waving, their buses need some serious attention at least cosmetically. On the occasions I've used the X52 between Otley and Ilkley the Scania Omis they've used have looked pretty sorry for themselves internally. Perhaps if the owner spent a bit more time, money and effort on his fleet and not bitching about TransDev they could offer a better standard of competition?
 
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Deerfold

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That is true, however this notwithstanding they are still responsible for transport policy in the region and as such they should not be promoting a bus war, or at least the escalation of it into their area. They should be stipulating that companies who engage in such tactics will not have their services promoted and advertised in timetables or indeed use Metro bus stops to wage this silly war.

Frankly from my experience of the two operators, if I were to be a regular user of this service I would give Connexions a serious serve. For all their bravado and flag waving, their buses need some serious attention at least cosmetically. On the occasions I've used the X52 between Otley and Ilkley the Scania Omis they've used have looked pretty sorry for themselves internally. Perhaps if the owner spent a bit more time, money and effort on his fleet and not bitching about TransDev they could offer a better standard of competition?

Metro aren't promoting a bus war. They will impartially provide information on any bus services that companies choose to run. They're also not allowed to prevent companies from using their bus stops. I agree it's daft, but it's not in Metro's power to do anything about it.
If no information was provided it's just passengers that would lose out.

When bus wars get really ridiculous the Traffic Commissioner can limit how many buses companies can run on a route.

The Transdev timetable is the same one that First had been operating. Connexions times are slightly different, but never more than a few minutes before or after the First/Transdev times. Connexions are also trying to run the full route twice per hour, which I understand First weren't able to achieve reliably, so it'll be interesting to see how reliable they can be.

One bus an hour doesn't serve Wharfedale Hospital - this is served by the subsidised Transdev 963 service at about the same times as the gap in the First/Transdev timetables.
 

Bantamzen

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Metro aren't promoting a bus war. They will impartially provide information on any bus services that companies choose to run. They're also not allowed to prevent companies from using their bus stops. I agree it's daft, but it's not in Metro's power to do anything about it.
If no information was provided it's just passengers that would lose out.

When bus wars get really ridiculous the Traffic Commissioner can limit how many buses companies can run on a route.

But the problem is willingly or unwillingly they are, someone must have noted the ridiculous situation where two buses run identical or near identical routes by different operators within sometimes a minute of each other with up to half hour gaps in-between. What will likely end up happening is that some services will run early when they are due to be behind the other in order to gain an advantage & then visa versa, and that is clearly not in the public interest. It would have been far more prudent not to advertise either specifically, and simply state something like services will start at xx:xx and run approximately every 30 minutes thereafter, as they have done previously with some high frequency routes and let the two slug it out. Sooner or later passengers will choose the option that best suits them, in terms of reliability, ticketing options etc and when one of the two will drop out a proper timetable can be re-instated.
 

Deerfold

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But the problem is willingly or unwillingly they are, someone must have noted the ridiculous situation where two buses run identical or near identical routes by different operators within sometimes a minute of each other with up to half hour gaps in-between. What will likely end up happening is that some services will run early when they are due to be behind the other in order to gain an advantage & then visa versa, and that is clearly not in the public interest. It would have been far more prudent not to advertise either specifically, and simply state something like services will start at xx:xx and run approximately every 30 minutes thereafter, as they have done previously with some high frequency routes and let the two slug it out. Sooner or later passengers will choose the option that best suits them, in terms of reliability, ticketing options etc and when one of the two will drop out a proper timetable can be re-instated.

However Metro can't do that. I agree it's a ridiculous situation, but that's what Bus Deregulation allows. Metro has a commitment to provide public transport information. I can't see how not providing the times helps passengers in any way though. Transdev produces their own timetable in any case - I don't know if Connexions does.

If services are regularly running early then that's a matter for the Traffic Commissioner.

The same happens in other areas of the county with duplicated routes such as on the 301. It is unusual to have one on a fairly low frequency corridor - but Connexions seems to like doing that.
 

Bantamzen

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However Metro can't do that. I agree it's a ridiculous situation, but that's what Bus Deregulation allows. Metro has a commitment to provide public transport information. I can't see how not providing the times helps passengers in any way though. Transdev produces their own timetable in any case - I don't know if Connexions does.

If services are regularly running early then that's a matter for the Traffic Commissioner.

The same happens in other areas of the county with duplicated routes such as on the 301. It is unusual to have one on a fairly low frequency corridor - but Connexions seems to like doing that.


Connexions do have their own, but interestingly every hour outside of peak times the incoming 940 then goes on to form the outgoing 965 at xx:30, that could make things more interesting if the 940 runs a tad late. But either way as we agree it is ridiculous, and the biggest losers are bound to be the passengers when things invariably heat up between them. What a great idea deregulation is, especially when away from the latest Transdev/Connexions spat there are routes dropping away and neither company seems the least bit interested.
 

the101

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What a great idea deregulation is, especially when away from the latest Transdev/Connexions spat there are routes dropping away and neither company seems the least bit interested.
I can't see the top-spec Gemini 3s that are on the 36s having happened without deregulation. Or the electric Volvos that are coming to Transdev. Or the app that it has. Or the various refurbishments, late-night services, City Zap services or anything else.

Yup, deregulation was a real kick in the proverbials for the areas that Transdev serves.
 

SCH117X

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Conn' are 100% responsible IMO. It was them that started the bus war with Transdev with sticking the X70 5 mins in front of 770. Something that Mr Temple has clearly forgot in his North Korean like twitter comments. As the original operator Transdev have ever right in my book to defend their market and if Mr Temple does not like it he should take his largely clapped out wrecks somewhere else.
 

Stan Drews

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Conn' are 100% responsible IMO. It was them that started the bus war with Transdev with sticking the X70 5 mins in front of 770. Something that Mr Temple has clearly forgot in his North Korean like twitter comments. As the original operator Transdev have ever right in my book to defend their market and if Mr Temple does not like it he should take his largely clapped out wrecks somewhere else.

Hang on a minute...
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good versus evil story!
...or the fact he's a disgruntled former employee!!
 

96tommy

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If I was ever in a position to choose between using Connexions and Transdev I would go for the latter every time, partly based on what is posted on Connexions' Twitter feed.

Whenever I'm in a position where I've got a choice between the 2 I now tend to go for the Connexion's services. I have never had a problem with Connexion's, drivers are always nice and friendly. One of the better companies around IMHO, the fleet has improved in the last few years. Transdev go on about "amazing" this "amazing" that, they're services are good I am not denying that and I use them loads, especially the Coastliner route but I wouldn't say they are miles better than Connexion's. The new app by Transdev should be useful because often I have been waiting for a Coastliner's and been waiting an hour or more, the Connexion's one is very good too and shows where the bus is on a map in real time which may be something Transdev could improve with in the future.

Conn' are 100% responsible IMO. It was them that started the bus war with Transdev with sticking the X70 5 mins in front of 770. Something that Mr Temple has clearly forgot in his North Korean like twitter comments. As the original operator Transdev have ever right in my book to defend their market and if Mr Temple does not like it he should take his largely clapped out wrecks somewhere else.

Both are as bad as each other. I never get this largely clapped out wrecks when it comes to Connexion's buses. Not saying all their fleet is new but a large majority is. A lot of Transdev's are old but with a "facelift", they look new but it's still the same 15-20 year old bus behind the new look and when it comes to the Gemini B7TL's their reliability has been shocking.
 

philthetube

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The other good one is where he continually moans that Transdev won't engage with Connexions, seemingly with a view to co-operation of some kind, despite Connexions having attempted to make contact.

Having seen the content of many of Connexions' Tweets that are directed towards Transdev, it should be obvious to even a cabbage why Transdev wants nothing to do with Connexions. But playing the victim card is always easy.

If I was ever in a position to choose between using Connexions and Transdev I would go for the latter every time, partly based on what is posted on Connexions' Twitter feed.
If the two work together then there is the risk of the competition people getting involved, (can' remember the name).
 

Bantamzen

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I can't see the top-spec Gemini 3s that are on the 36s having happened without deregulation. Or the electric Volvos that are coming to Transdev. Or the app that it has. Or the various refurbishments, late-night services, City Zap services or anything else.

Yup, deregulation was a real kick in the proverbials for the areas that Transdev serves.

Are you suggesting that without deregulation we'd still be riding around in Leyland Nationals? Whilst some privatised routes like the 36 do enjoy high spec buses, there are plenty of routes around here that enjoy far less well specced buses, including services run by these two companies. And while we are on the subject, let's not forget the loss of a multitude of services thanks to deregulation, the Shipley / Guiseley / Otley / Ilkley area has lost lots of services. In the area I live alone the service has gone from 4-5 buses a day serving Bradford, Leeds, Otley, Ilkley, Harrogate, LBA down to 1 per hour between Bradford & LBA. Oh and before you ask yes demand is still there, the daily scrums on the roads around Guiseley, through Charlestown and onto Shipley bear testament to that.

Bus services are primarily a public service, without them we have ever worsening road congestion which leads to more difficult and lengthy commuting for workers travelling ever longer distances to get to their place of employment. If the commuting gets worse, productivity and effectiveness reduces, costs rise and the economy suffers. These should be basic principles and well understood by all in the sector, and is why for-profit-first operations should not be the focus. Subsidised services, be they bus or rail, are often lamented by some on here. But these publically funded subsidies provide essential services to people who would otherwise face longer and potentially more expensive commutes. Telling people who have lost viable services that some other punters that a route that is of no use to them has nice seats and WiFi doesn't justify the wholescale wreaking job privatisation has done to services in many areas.

In the context of this thread, there are a multitude of potential routes TransDev & Connexions could root for. But instead they are simply picking off the bones tossed to them by First, whilst engaging in a petty squabble over them, probably wreaking public confidence by offering odd timetabling, and almost certainly in the long runmimg inefficient and unreliable services as they compete for timings. Yep, privatisation is brilliant eh?? :rolleyes:
 

spuddie

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I can see where the101 came from though, the first comment about Leyland Nationals was a bit far fetched and pointless.

However the point I believe Bantamzem is trying to make or has helped me interpret is that if there are pro's and con's to deregulation happening on the buses. If it hadn't of happened we would be unlikely to have seen some of the improvements in services and vehicles (I can't imagine all the high spec and premium services would exist), we wouldn't have such variety in liveries and operators (although granted most passengers don't care who it's run by and what colour it is as long as it runs). On the negative we may have lost some routes which serve some more remote or less profitable communities as in the private sector it's more about making money and why run a route which is barely making anything or even a loss, after all it is a business and costs have to be paid for, staff have to be paid etc.

It's well known that deregulation didn't quite work out as originally planned but are we overall worse off for it happening? Who knows, Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
 

Andyh82

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At the end of the day the competition on the 965 both operators each have a PVR of 1 bus. It's hardly going to gridlock West Yorkshire. There have been many more extensive bits of competition. The PVR on the Wilmslow Road over the years when you had 3 or 4 operators on the go, must have had PVRs up to 100.
 

Tetchytyke

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West Yorkshire Road Car were always a quality operator, even in NBC days. Had the NBC stayed they'd be doing what they're doing now.

FWIW deregulation wasn't the big issue, it was consolidation. Yorkshire Rider weren't as good as West Yorkshire, and then when Badgerline (and then First) rocked up everything really went south.
 
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Andyh82

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It's a pointless argument as the bus industry is completely different now to then and you are talking over 30 years ago. Even FirstGroup was good about 15 years ago.
 

Bantamzen

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I can see where the101 came from though, the first comment about Leyland Nationals was a bit far fetched and pointless.

Yes sorry, my well tuned sarcasm mode kicked in there!

However the point I believe Bantamzem is trying to make or has helped me interpret is that if there are pro's and con's to deregulation happening on the buses. If it hadn't of happened we would be unlikely to have seen some of the improvements in services and vehicles (I can't imagine all the high spec and premium services would exist), we wouldn't have such variety in liveries and operators (although granted most passengers don't care who it's run by and what colour it is as long as it runs). On the negative we may have lost some routes which serve some more remote or less profitable communities as in the private sector it's more about making money and why run a route which is barely making anything or even a loss, after all it is a business and costs have to be paid for, staff have to be paid etc.

It's well known that deregulation didn't quite work out as originally planned but are we overall worse off for it happening? Who knows, Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

That is partly my point, but more specifically to this thread what I am trying to say is that while the TransDev vs Connexions battle rages, other potential routes exist that one or the other might be inclined to look at rather than trying to duplicate the other. There is still a considerable flow of traffic from Wharfe Valley, through Guisley and into the Aire Valley & beyond. When First started dropping services covering these flows, although Northern picked up a lot of movements they couldn't cover places like Otley & Pool for obvious reasons. For a while TLC tried hard to run a limited then hourly service between Bradford/Shipley and Otley, a combination of limited vehicles and capacity and meant that they couldn't attract enough new passengers onto the services, or keep them running to time and so they eventually dropped them. Some would argue that this proves low demand for the route, but it is clearly visible by the number of cars heading from places like Otley towards Bradford & Shipley every morning that demand still exists. So what this route needs is an operator with capacity to offer potentially higher frequency services and larger capacity vehicles.

Step up Transdev / Connexions? No? Too busy battling over a local service? I honestly thought that when TLC announced the cancellation of the 653 (Bradford-Otley) that TransDev would see a natural opportunity, linking two of it's core areas but clearly not. Then I thought maybe this is a chance for Connexions to reinstate their X53 (Harrogate-Guiseley) service, but extend it into Bradford to tap into a new market. But both instead went for a squabble over the 965, making an unholy mess of the timetable. In the meantime the traffic woes continue and grow as more & more people jump into their cars because of a lack of reliable services that can get them where they actually want to go. As I said, public transport should be about transporting the public primarily, not worrying about shareholders or engaging it petty squabbles over selected routes. Much of the rest of the world manages this quite well, so why not here....?
 

SCH117X

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What exactly is/was the market for the 653 - if TLC could not make it pay with a Solo (or whatever) the custom must have been really limited. Bus Services on that former core route have taken a hammering from the electrification of the railway. Conn' were too obsessed with actually winning a battle with Transdev on Harrogate-Ilkley services to be bothered, whereas if their was any regulation the logic would have been to replace the X52 with a X53 as quite clearly the 762 provided more journeys and links - I had actually hoped it would run the full length on Sundays particularly as it formed a core link in Transdevs network and their promotion of leisure / visitor attractions
 

NorthernSpirit

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What exactly is/was the market for the 653 - if TLC could not make it pay with a Solo (or whatever) the custom must have been really limited. Bus Services on that former core route have taken a hammering from the electrification of the railway. Conn' were too obsessed with actually winning a battle with Transdev on Harrogate-Ilkley services to be bothered, whereas if their was any regulation the logic would have been to replace the X52 with a X53 as quite clearly the 762 provided more journeys and links - I had actually hoped it would run the full length on Sundays particularly as it formed a core link in Transdevs network and their promotion of leisure / visitor attractions

The market for the 653 was originally linking Bradford with Harrogate, First pulled out leaving both Connexions and TLC to take over from where First threw in the towel. The new 653 then linked Bradford with Otley, which really doesn't link with anything other than Wetherby, Leeds, Skipton and Ilkley Monday to Saturdays. On Sundays Otley gets the Dalesbus services.

Personally I think TLC's 653 could have worked had Connexions extended their X53 to Bradford in the peaks which could have help with an Otley > Bradford flow in the morning and Bradford > Otley flow in the evening with the 653 filling in inbetween - this wouold work Monday to Fridays which would have hoyed a few people out of their cars and onto public transport. The 653 could have also worked on Sunday's since there is now no longer a bus from Bradford to Otley so that one can interchange at Otley to the Yorkshire Dales, you now have to go via Leeds.

I think there is some potential for TLC or Connexions/Tockwith Bus Company/whateveritscalledthisweek to reintroduce the 653 and extend it to Pateley Bridge which would open up a new market and journey opportunities for those in Pateley Bridge to go to Otley and or Bradford.
 

Andyh82

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TLC started up the 653 commercially after they lost the Wharfedale local routes. As has been said they withdrew it fairly quickly which must mean there wasn't much market for it. A handful of pensioners going shopping doesn't make a hourly all day commercially viable service.
 

SCH117X

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I think there is some potential for TLC or Connexions/Tockwith Bus Company/whateveritscalledthisweek to reintroduce the 653 and extend it to Pateley Bridge which would open up a new market and journey opportunities for those in Pateley Bridge to go to Otley and or Bradford.
Otley to Pateley was tried as subsidised service and did not last long so the chance of anyone trying it commercially is exceptionally unlikely particularly as even with their low cost operation Conn' could not make York-Harrogate pay and have never tried Harrogate-Skipton direct presumably accepting that Transdevs losses on it would be too much for them as well. Harrogate-Skipton via Ilkley has not run as through route for many years, the last incarnation of it was the X50 York-Skipton albeit that ended up with most workings starting/ending at Harrogate. Seems very obvious to me that the Harrogate-Skipton market could be fulfilled by Conn' extending the X52. Presumably if the Ilkley-Skipton service was a Transdev one they would have but as its First X84 from Leeds they see no need.
 
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theblackwatch

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Conn' are 100% responsible IMO. It was them that started the bus war with Transdev with sticking the X70 5 mins in front of 770. Something that Mr Temple has clearly forgot in his North Korean like twitter comments. As the original operator Transdev have ever right in my book to defend their market and if Mr Temple does not like it he should take his largely clapped out wrecks somewhere else.

While that may be the case regarding the timings, didn't Transdev, up till Connexions started running between Harrogate and Wetherby, say there wasn't the market to run fast buses between Harrogate and Spofforth on the A661, rather than via Rudding Park and Follifoot? Then suddenly, one firm does just that and they follow suit soon after. I'm sure that's something I once heard, although the memory is a bit vague so I'm happy to be corrected.
 
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SCH117X

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No denying Conn spotted an opening, IIRC at the time Transdev said they had no problem with sensible competition. Presumably if Conn had run clock face apart from the 770 the subsequent events may have turned out differently. The real losers have been ratepayers who now find of the limited extent of their monies NYCC spend on bus services a proportion is being spent propping up the route via between Follifoot instead of it being run commercially. I have noted a number of tweets re the 6/X6/X6/X6A situation with both operators being asked to talk to each other. Transdev have in response seemingly indicated positively adding that they were lost for words (or something equivalent to that) when Conn retimed their service to the same as theirs.
 

Bantamzen

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What exactly is/was the market for the 653 - if TLC could not make it pay with a Solo (or whatever) the custom must have been really limited. Bus Services on that former core route have taken a hammering from the electrification of the railway. Conn' were too obsessed with actually winning a battle with Transdev on Harrogate-Ilkley services to be bothered, whereas if their was any regulation the logic would have been to replace the X52 with a X53 as quite clearly the 762 provided more journeys and links - I had actually hoped it would run the full length on Sundays particularly as it formed a core link in Transdevs network and their promotion of leisure / visitor attractions

The demand? I thought I had explained that earlier, its part of the traffic that currently clogs up the roads between the Wharfe Valley and the Aire Valley, and onto Bradford. I've lived in the valley at Baildon for a decade now, and in that time the roads have become visibly busier. And a lot of this is because of a lack of alternative options, along with increasing amount of housing alongside the route (which could get a lot more if the proposed Otley builds go ahead). As mentioned above First dropped Bradford services to Ilkley, Otley, Harrogate & Leeds over a number of years. This meant that in my neck of the woods there were 4-5 buses an hour, serving a variety of destinations. Now there is one. The only two services that got any real attention were the Harrogate routes via Otley which have been experimented with, firstly going via Shipley & Guiseley (737) and now going via Greengates and Rawdon (747). The other service was the Otley one (653) which initially was run at 2 or 3 per day, then scaled back to run only from Shipley via Baildon & Esholt, before TLC briefly tried an hourly service.

By this point any faith in a reliable, consistent service had been lost and most people (and I know some personally) simply took to their cars. Even when the 653 was run hourly there was little publicity about it and certainly some people in the Otley area were surprised to find that the hourly service had been scrapped as they didn’t even know about it! That’s not entirely TLC’s fault, they rely heavily on Metro subsidies and publicity so Metro are as much to blame as anyone else for this. Interestingly though, some early morning services were actually very popular with the commuters that knew about them, and even now that the 653 has been stripped back to one very early morning service it still sees quite a few punters on it each way.

So demand is potentially there, but even a hourly Solo operated service isn’t going to attract punters back on, it needs a high publicity, reasonably specced operation to have even a chance of tempting back at least some drivers. As suggested above, if somehow the X53 were re-introduced and extended, perhaps running limited stop between Bradford & Shipley to keep better timings (possibly via Canal Road to avoid the daily ruck on Manningham Lane), then it is not beyond the realms of possibility that more punters would use them. But it needs more than what was for the best part a token service whose timings better suited the older generation’s shopping trips than people conducting a daily commute.
 

SCH117X

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Now there is one. The only two services that got any real attention were the Harrogate routes via Otley which have been experimented with, firstly going via Shipley & Guiseley (737) and now going via Greengates and Rawdon (747).

Presumably you meant Harrogate routes not via Otley as neither the 737 or 747 have ever run via Otley.
 

Stan Drews

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Do you believe that First, TLC etc withdrew the services you now say Connexions, Transdev should be running just for the fun of it? Or is it more likely that they were running at a loss because there wasn't enough passengers using them?
If you were running your bus company, would you be throwing lots of expensive resources at a service that others had tried and failed with?
 

SCH117X

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And presumably the X53 between Otley and Guiseley was not overly successful or where Conn just too obsessed in getting one over Transdev that they withdrew it. It was noticeable that the X52 usually got better vehicles than the X53, although that can be rather subjective with Conns offerings
 

96tommy

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, although that can be rather subjective with Conns offerings

You seem to come up with this line a lot but I don't think Conns offerings are much worse. I've been on more Transdev buses which have broken down than Connexions yet I travel on Connexion's more
 

Bantamzen

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Do you believe that First, TLC etc withdrew the services you now say Connexions, Transdev should be running just for the fun of it? Or is it more likely that they were running at a loss because there wasn't enough passengers using them?
If you were running your bus company, would you be throwing lots of expensive resources at a service that others had tried and failed with?

No I don't, and if you had bothered to read my posts properly you would see why. Anyone living in the area needs only to observe the ever growing problems with the roads, traffic jams get longer and longer as bus services fall away. There is direct correlation between worsening public transport and worsening traffic congestion, and if you are suggesting that there isn't a flow of traffic from the Wharfe to Aire valleys and back to sustain at least 1 bus an hour I can only assume that you do not have to suffer the congestion every day.

When TLC took over the Otley route, they ran it as a few services a day using Solos, basically a fraction of the capacity of what First had offered. Of course it was never going to be popular, especially as the majority of services were outside the peaks. I don't blame TLC for this BTW, they were a small company with a very small fleet trying to make a difficult route work. But such low capacity simply could not offer passengers what they needed, so by the time TLC had capacity to increase to an hourly (remembering that before that they had scaled the Otley service back to starting at Shipley in the form of the 650) there was hardly a passenger base left. However that does not mean there is no market.

The problem I often see here and elsewhere is that people simply assume that because a big company dropped a service in the past means that there will never be a market for it again. But herein lies the heart of the problem, companies like First don't necessarily drop services because there is no market. In the case of the 653 there has always been flows along either part or all of the route. That still exists today, and indeed as I stated earlier there are more housing developments that have gone up along the route, with potentially a lot more to come. So there is a market, providing that it is suitable for commuters as well as shoppers. The problem is that it is a difficult area to serve, with few main roads with a growing population feeding two cities (albeit with much more flow to one). Now of course at this point if we had a nice joined up transport policy in this country, the DfT, Metro, the providers would see a massive opportunity to develop local services that fed the rail network. The only problem is that these services are often full at the heavy peaks, and so there is no opportunity to increase capacity without investment, and that costs which we all know is a crime against taxpayers so is a none starter. Instead more and more commuters take to the roads, and spend more and more of their time on them (as well as increasing their costs and reducing productivity). This is the typical British state of mind when it comes to transport, can't see the solution, won't pay for the solution.

This has turned into a bit of rant, for which I apologise. But the bottom line here is that the big companies won't touch the routes not because there is no market, but simply because they are difficult. But if they persisted they could easily develop them into popular routes, both for the longer portions and for more localised journeys, including travel to and from stations along the route.
 

SCH117X

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You seem to come up with this line a lot but I don't think Conns offerings are much worse. I've been on more Transdev buses which have broken down than Connexions yet I travel on Connexion's more
Luck? You can hardly say Conns buses do not breakdown given they have managed to close down Harrogate Bus Station as least twice due to blocking the entrance or exit plus of course the driver who left the hand brake off leading to part of the rear wall being demolished. Maybe it was the same driver who I saw take off from one stop layby by bouncing the vehicle onto the pavement instead of pulling out, or another driver, who having been directed by a relieving driver to use a different stand, had to hand directed in as otherwise the bus would have demolished a fence and even then was hard pressed up against a pole. You keep on bleating about Transdevs refurnished buses being 10 years old, its called a mid-life refurbishment something many operators do but not Conns who seem happy to send vehicles out with scratched dented and loose panels. Minimal spend by a typical low cost operator. I enquired when the ex Dublin Solo was going to repainted and was informed they were likely to sell it depending on the outcome of the Wharfedale tenders which they lost. Still have the Solo, still not repainted - typically its only vehicle I see with the Conns fleetname on it, yesterday the others were a plain white, white and blue, red, blue and a green and white one but even that did not have the Conns fleetname on it, rather the old Harrogate Coach Travel name. Anyone visiting would not known any of them belonged to same operator.
 
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