Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

[Zxwii]

Are they doing the Sunday one as well?

 

[SCH117X]

The NYCC tender is Monday-Saturday, Sunday services were subsidised by Rudding Park. Their is no Sunday X70. Whether there still is a Sunday service operated by Transdev (or someone else other than Connexions) remains to be seen - they have a VOSA registration which is a bit confusing as it only refers to Leeds-Wetherby referenced as service 7 which could cause confusion in Leeds with Firsts 7 as they use adjacent stops on one road. I can understand Transdev wanting to divorce their numbering from Connexions.

 

[SCH117X]

Transdev have posted details of the change No service at any time to Follifoot. http://harrogatebus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2277

Sadly, we've lost the funding which North Yorkshire County Council provided for the journeys on the 70 which run through Follifoot. The money has gone to another operator, so we'll no longer be running the 70.

Previously, we funded evening and Sunday journeys on the 70 ourselves to bring you a consistently good service all through the day. It means that we'll no longer run any evening or Sunday buses through Follifoot. The new operator should be able to assist you with any questions on the new service - visit

 

[Andyh82]

“There's some important changes taking place on the 70 & 71 which you need to know about, from Sunday 15 April. Sadly, we've lost the funding which North Yorkshire County Council provided for the journeys on the 70 which run through Follifoot. The money has gone to another operator, so we'll no longer be running the 70.

Previously, we funded evening and Sunday journeys on the 70 ourselves to bring you a consistently good service all through the day. It means that we'll no longer run any evening or Sunday buses through Follifoot. The new operator should be able to assist you with any questions on the new service - visit connexionsbuses.com.”

Knowing full well that Connexions won’t be providing any evening or Sunday service

 

[SCH117X]

Knowing full well that Connexions won’t be providing any evening or Sunday service

At least they have given a link to the new operator; roles reserved and you get a glib statement of "another operator" from Connexions and at best a reference to contact NYCC. Slightly amusing turn of events, the X70 came about as providing a direct service, now half of the X70s will be the indirect service, Connexions really ought to drop the X for them but of course the X stands for conneXions so maybe the direct ones should be numbered XX70 or X70X. Wonder how long before they drop the 0.

 

[Zxwii]

Surely if Connexions want to run the 70,then they should be the ones to do the evenings and Sundays.

 

[SCH117X]

The NYCC tender is Monday-Saturday daytime. IIRC the Sunday service was funded to some extent by Rudding Park, maybe it was a single up front payment. There is currently not really an evening service most of the week; the last bus from Wetherby via Follifoot is 1838 Mon-Fri and 1902 Saturday. From Harrogate 1820 Mon-Sat. On Sundays there is an evening service with later buses from Harrogate at 2025 and 2225 and from Wetherby at 1947 and 2152. Connexions do not run any services anywhere evenings and Sundays.

 

[Andyh82]

At least they have given a link to the new operator; roles reserved and you get a glib statement of "another operator" from Connexions and at best a reference to contact NYCC. Slightly amusing turn of events, the X70 came about as providing a direct service, now half of the X70s will be the indirect service, Connexions really ought to drop the X for them but of course the X stands for conneXions so maybe the direct ones should be numbered XX70 or X70X. Wonder how long before they drop the 0.

I think Transdev have done that on purpose though, mentioning Connexions, to pass the blame to them when people complain about no Sunday service.

I still can’t believe we are going to have the fiasco of two number 7s heading up New Briggate in Leeds, one going to Primley Park and one going to Harrogate.

 

[Deerfold]

I still can’t believe we are going to have the fiasco of two number 7s heading up New Briggate in Leeds, one going to Primley Park and one going to Harrogate.

I mentioned this to them on twitter. They replied saying this happens all around the country, missing the point that you don't have to make it happen more.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I can see why Transdev have renumbered (again) the route, as there is no 7 in Harrogate but there is a 3 and a 6 in logic it makes sense to but its going to confuse those who will simply look at the number and presume that it's going to Harrogate via Primley Park and not via the scenic route.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

At least they have given a link to the new operator; roles reserved and you get a glib statement of "another operator" from Connexions and at best a reference to contact NYCC. Slightly amusing turn of events, the X70 came about as providing a direct service, now half of the X70s will be the indirect service, Connexions really ought to drop the X for them but of course the X stands for conneXions so maybe the direct ones should be numbered XX70 or X70X. Wonder how long before they drop the 0.

To be honest, they've been a little bit churlish in this instance.

Just say they've lost the tender to another operator and provide the link. No need to go on about evenings and Sundays or who's getting the money!

The renumbering seems rather daft as well. I'm not against renumbering (oooh, that service has had the same number since 1938, and two number 22s is going to mess up my leaflet filing system) but don't do it without a really compelling reason.

 

[Andyh82]

I mentioned this to them on twitter. They replied saying this happens all around the country, missing the point that you don't have to make it happen more.

Especially as Leeds is supposedly going down the road of an integrated network, and Transdev see themselves as one of the city’s 3 operators of local buses, not just a operator that runs in from outside that duplicates a local city bus number that you sometimes get. The 70/71 provides a local bus as far as Wetherby.

 

[philthetube]

I wonder if part of this is to put pressure on council and government, showing what a disaster the current system is.

 

[Deerfold]

I wonder if part of this is to put pressure on council and government, showing what a disaster the current system is.

How would it do that?

 

[SCH117X]

It does show the whole problem of leaving bus service open to competition.
Transdev were running all services via Follifoot then along came Connexions with their direct service timed just in front of Transdevs. Trandev then put on their own direct service timed just in front of Connexions. There is then a sort of truce with a 15 minute interval service although Connexions alter it to a more a 10-20 min interval on a number of journeys in their favour. Transdev meanwhile cut the half hourly service through Follifoot to hourly by running the other direct then announce they are withdrawing the service via Follifoot in favour of a direct one. NYCC come up with funding for a service via Follifoot and Transdev then make the daytime Follifoot additional to their normal half hourly service. NYCC then award the tender to Connexions and Transdev pull the Sunday services as a consequence. The question has to be would NYCC have to fund any services and would Follifoot still have a Sunday service if Connexion had not started competing.

 

[philthetube]

I wonder if part of this is to put pressure on council and government, showing what a disaster the current system is.

How would it do that?

because it will make people aware that they have lost their services because of the way the law works. I suspect that the council would probably have liked to pay the bit extra for the evenings and weekends but are not allowed to.

 

[SCH117X]

because it will make people aware that they have lost their services because of the way the law works. I suspect that the council would probably have liked to pay the bit extra for the evenings and weekends but are not allowed to.

Eh? Its just a decision of NYCC that what little monies they have to spend on buses cannot be spread to Sundays and evenings. When Connexions started their service I predicted the outcome would be NYCC having to fund services via Follifoot as the same reduction in commercial services has happened elsewhere due to competition, and consequently what monies they have to spend on buses evenly more thinly spread.

 

[philthetube]

What you say basically backs u[ what I was saying, policy on bus subsidies results in worse services, maybe transdev are trying to point this out in the only way they can without biting the hand that feeds them.

 

[SCH117X]

The more mature Connexions did not last judging the latest news on their web site

"Services X4 and X12 departing from outside bus station
Posted on March 16, 2018

Late last night, we were advised by the bus station owners that the X4 and X12 would have to use the stop outside the bus station exit again for approximately a week.

We apologise for the short notice but despite complaining about it the phrase that I was given said ‘this is not negotiable’."

when "We apologise for the short notice" or if they wanted to add more "We apologise for the short notice which is outside of our control" would suffice. And posting news articles in the singular terms!, and it might have been useful for anyone looking to insert the word Harrogate in the title.

 

[Deerfold]

The more mature Connexions did not last judging the latest news on their web site

Indeed it hasn't lasted.

https://twitter.com/connexionsbuses/status/974640570764230656

 

[SCH117X]

It would be pretty obvious to anyone looking at stand occupancy and the number of passengers affected that those two services would get moved out.

 

[Andyh82]

And the replacement stop is about 10 footsteps down the pavement, hardly miles away that would effect custom.

I assume they pay departure charges which they won’t have to pay when they aren’t using the bus station.

 

[SCH117X]

I assume they pay departure charges which they won’t have to pay when they aren’t using the bus station.

Indeed and IIRC Mr Connexions has whinged about the cost in the past.

 

[Zxwii]

Indeed and IIRC Mr Connexions has whinged about the cost in the past.

No one forces them to use the bus station if they don't like the costs.
They could always put their own bus stops up away from the bus station and use them. Or wouldn't that be allowed?

 

[SCH117X]

Connexions putting up a bus stop would be novel in itself. They made a big fuss over the, now withdrawn, X1C serving roads in Knaresborough that Transdev did not but there were no bus stops (the service was registered as normal stopping ie no hail & ride)

 

[Andyh82]

There is the situation in Knaresborough where they don’t use the bus station so they use an unmarked one in one direction and the back of a bus stop facing the other way in the other direction.

 

[SCH117X]

There is the situation in Knaresborough where they don’t use the bus station so they use an unmarked one in one direction and the back of a bus stop facing the other way in the other direction.

The 780 does use the bus station. Its the X1 that stops outside and contributes significantly to the traffic jams along the High Street.

 

[SCH117X]

Quite remarkable tweet by Connexions this morning just before 8am blaming heavy bank holiday traffic for delays to services They might be right later in the day - wonder if some drivers were absent / late.

 

[Andyh82]

Quite remarkable tweet by Connexions this morning just before 8am blaming heavy bank holiday traffic for delays to services They might be right later in the day - wonder if some drivers were absent / late.

I don’t think there was as Connexions don’t run on Bank Holidays

Even on Good Friday which tends to be a Saturday service round these parts.

 

[darloscott]

Service 16 in York is running at least, as I've seen a picture of that one.