Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

[SCH117X]

Would have thought that the Harrogate Christmas Market, Free Shuttle service, would have been an ideal opportunity for Transdev to triumph their Electric Buses by using one on this service.
However the couple of times I have visited the Market a Diesel powered Solo has been provided!

That would be novel given the only Solos they have are electric. Presumably you mean a Versa. There was one of Volvo Electrics in use on it today but whether it lasted long on it is another matter - given the chaos the town centre has been in (it took 5 minutes to get from Bettys to the Royal Hall at 7.30 on Friday evening!) they have most likely been swopping vehicles about to try to maintain the timetable - wonder if VOSA have been watching this year after last years issue with the two operators.

 

[Swimbar]

That would be novel given the only Solos they have are electric. Presumably you mean a Versa. There was one of Volvo Electrics in use on it today but whether it lasted long on it is another matter - given the chaos the town centre has been in (it took 5 minutes to get from Bettys to the Royal Hall at 7.30 on Friday evening!) they have most likely been swopping vehicles about to try to maintain the timetable - wonder if VOSA have been watching this year after last years issue with the two operators.

Correct 12 Reg Versa - should know my Optare models by now!

 

[Alexbus12]

Would have thought that the Harrogate Christmas Market, Free Shuttle service, would have been an ideal opportunity for Transdev to triumph their Electric Buses by using one on this service.
However the couple of times I have visited the Market a Diesel powered Solo has been provided!

There was an electric on it today afaik

 

[SCH117X]

Presumably taken off because of the large number of passengers using them?

Its a bit weird - Transdev obviously believe their is enough custom to divert 10 7's on weekdays to serve Thorp Arch and NYCC will be serving it on a 412 from York. As it is unless some one comes up with a service, and that would seemingly be down to either York Pullman or Transdev, it looks anyone travelling from Tadcaster will have to change at Seacroft with a journey time 1hr 9min!

 

[SCH117X]

Although seemingly unannounced NYCC have published a timetable covering their own operation of the Ripon local services from next Monday, same number of journeys as currently provided by Connexions and the same days of operation (Mon-Fri only) but with different times https://www.northyorkstravel.info/timetable/RS1nov18.pdf

 

[96tommy]

I managed to use both operators yesterday, first jourmey was from Tadcaster to York (I could swear the price keeps going up!) didn't go quite smooth as the bus hit some bushes in Copmanthorpe, the mirror came off and we had to wait for the bus 30 minutes behind. These things happen and the driver kept us informed. I then caught the 21 to Colton (single = £2.75, nearly half as much as the Coastliner for a journey which is longer).

 

[SCH117X]

Looks like the solitary casualty of Connexions latest cutbacks is the High Harrogate and Wedderburn service (X4 previously 104). NYCC have still not updated their service change list from 17 October and some reason do not bother to register the services they operate with VOSA.

 

[ACBest]

Looks like the solitary casualty of Connexions latest cutbacks is the High Harrogate and Wedderburn service (X4 previously 104). NYCC have still not updated their service change list from 17 October and some reason do not bother to register the services they operate with VOSA.

NYCC’s services will be on S19/22 permits, therefore don’t need registering.

 

[SCH117X]

NYCC’s services will be on S19/22 permits, therefore don’t need registering.

Thanks for the info - I see that covers "not for profit passenger transport".

Connexions aka Mr Temple are clearly not amused with a tweet to the NYCC councillor responsible for transport "Hi Don, we asked for funding to continue operating the Wetherby to Tad service but there wasn't any available....but now there is?" Presumably NYCC consider if they operate the service themselves it will cost them less than paying Mr Temple, or someone else, to operate.

Realised when I said the X4 was the only casualty I had overlooked Tad-Thorpe Arch.

 

[Deerfold]

NYCC’s services will be on S19/22 permits, therefore don’t need registering.

Really?

i'm not sure what category they come under.

https://www.gov.uk/run-local-bus-service/exemptions

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...22-permits-not-for-profit-passenger-transport

These permits are to enable you to provide a community bus service which must be registered as a local bus service with the traffic commissioner.

Most routes operated under S22 permits still need registering.

 

[SCH117X]

There are a huge collection of regular scheduled services for the general public operated (or wlll be)by NYCC that VOSA records seem to be ignorant of:-
4 Scarborough-Weaponess
11 Tosside-Giggleswick-Settle / Giggleswick-Settle-Horton-in-Ribblesdale
12 Skipton-Carleton
14 Skipton-Embsay
31A & 31B Richmond Town Services
44 Scarborough local
59 Thirsk-Husthwaite
60,60A Thirsk-Great Thirkleby
71 Steeton & Silsden-Low Bradley
72A Skipton-Buckden
73 Skipton local
74A Ilkley-Hebden
74A,74B Northallerton Town Services
77 Tadcaster-Wetherby
78A Skipton-Airedale Hospital
155 Leyburn-Bedale
170,171 Pickering Town Services
190 Malton-Foxholes
193 Malton/Norton Town Service
210,211 Skipton-Malham
412 York-Thorp Arch-Wetherby
492,493 Tadcaster-Sherburn
780 Knaresborough-Wetherby
RS1-RS3 Ripon City Services

 

[Deerfold]

Transdev seem to have been trying to confuse today - I don't know if it was a badly programmed bus, or a driver who selected the wrong option, but I saw an 872 heading for Skipton.

 

[SCH117X]

NYCCs working of the Ripon City Services is temporarily apparently
http://www.riponcity.gov.uk/news/index.html
"Since being made aware that Harrogate Coach Travel were withdrawing their commercial, Ripon City Bus Services RS1, RS2, RS3 from 24th November 2018 the" Ripon City "Council has been working towards a solution to replace the service.

We have investigated options to replace the services and sought the help of North Yorkshire County Council who undertook a procurement process on our behalf to gauge the costs of retaining the service.

The City Council met on Monday 19th November to discuss these costs, however it was agreed that the City Council were not in a position to meet the cost of the quotations that were received.

In an effort to keep the service running North Yorkshire County Council have agreed to continue the services for an interim period using its own fleet services minibus, whilst a longer term, cost effective solution can be investigated.

The new service will start from Monday 26th November and operate Monday to Friday, the service will operate the existing route, but there is an amended timetable, details are available below." [which it isn't!]

 

[SCH117X]

Transdev seem to have been trying to confuse today - I don't know if it was a badly programmed bus, or a driver who selected the wrong option, but I saw an 872 heading for Skipton.

Memories of manual blinds - remember back when H&D worked the 23 to Markington one driver of a decker mistakenly winding the blind round to Bridlington; the bus being a regular loanee to Coastliner over the summer.

 

[theblackwatch]

Unfortunately, the reliability of the electric buses doesn't seem to be getting any better. Yesterday, 806 spent over three hours stood at the top of Cheltenham Parade (literally 100 yards from the bus station) awaiting a rescue - at least it was on the two lane section so it didn't block the road completely. I did manage to travel on a couple of these vehicles for the first time (including 806) and thought they were quite nice - my only gripe was the location of the 'stop' buttons. I did hear a couple of other passengers commenting on the reliability of the service since the new buses came into service though.

 

[Swimbar]

Unfortunately, the reliability of the electric buses doesn't seem to be getting any better. Yesterday, 806 spent over three hours stood at the top of Cheltenham Parade (literally 100 yards from the bus station) awaiting a rescue - at least it was on the two lane section so it didn't block the road completely. I did manage to travel on a couple of these vehicles for the first time (including 806) and thought they were quite nice - my only gripe was the location of the 'stop' buttons. I did hear a couple of other passengers commenting on the reliability of the service since the new buses came into service though.

There was also one sat on the Hill yesterday, halfway up Ripon Road towards the Cairn hotel with its four way flashers on.

 

[SCH117X]

806 also had its hazard lights on which did imply it had not completely out of juice but then I suppose the leccy needed to work the lights is somewhat less than needed to power the vehicle. Apparently the generator cannot charge at the rate the system would be charging them if connected to the grid and given the traffic chaos with the knitting show at the Conference Centre suppose its possible they could have misjudged how much charge was needed (assuming the fault was power related).

 

[theblackwatch]

806 also had its hazard lights on which did imply it had not completely out of juice but then I suppose the leccy needed to work the lights is somewhat less than needed to power the vehicle. Apparently the generator cannot charge at the rate the system would be charging them if connected to the grid and given the traffic chaos with the knitting show at the Conference Centre suppose its possible they could have misjudged how much charge was needed (assuming the fault was power related).

I did notice though that it lost its 'Sorry Not In Service' message early on in the afternoon. It's a shame they didn't have an extra long USB cable to run down from the bus station to charge it.

One thing I did notice about the generator was that it was still on at around 17.00 (by which time all the electric buses had been put to bed) which I found a bit strange.

 

[SCH117X]

Could explain in part some of Transdevs fare increases;

"A former finance chief at Harrogate's leading bus company defrauded the firm out of almost £90,000 and spent the money on designer and luxury goods. Mark Suter, 44, from Harrogate, falsified invoices and cheques during his time as financial controller at Transdev Blazefield, the parent company of the Harrogate Bus Company, York Crown Court heard. Such was Suter’s reputation as a top-grade accountant and trustworthy employee at the firm’s Harrogate branch on Broughton Way, that he never once came under suspicion during his five-year scam which had cost the company tens of thousands of pounds, said prosecutor Jeremy Barton. Between July 2012 and March 2017, Suter defrauded the company out of just over £88,000 and spent the money on Argos gift vouchers, a £4,800 Rolex watch, Apple products and car tyres that he claimed were a “legitimate business expense”. He also deposited £9,000 into his own pension fund and splurged on gardening equipment and fuel for his own vehicle.
When Suter resigned from his £49,000-a-year job in March 2017 after eight years at the firm, his actions had still not been discovered. He was finally arrested two months later when the firm’s financial director noted a number of invoice irregularities and launched an inquiry
The investigation revealed that none of the £30,000 worth of invoices had been sent out by the company. Suter had also forged signatures on company cheques worth about £60,000, which he paid into his own account. “The defendant had been rather clever in being able to fool those who he worked for,” said Mr Barton. “He was trusted by those around him. ”Following his arrest, Suter told police that he was “resentful (about) his role (in the company) and felt under-appreciated and underpaid”.
He claimed that others were given “perks and benefits” which had been denied to him, so he “went about getting them himself”.
Suter, of Copgrove, Harrogate, initially pleaded his innocence but later owned up to the huge fraud, blaming it on financial pressures. He admitted eight counts of fraud and appeared for sentence on Monday.
'The court heard that the transport company - which has a fleet of over 500 buses and runs services across North and West Yorkshire, including the flagship 36 route linking Harrogate with Ripon and Leeds - had been deeply affected by Suter’s crimes, which had led to innocent staff members and even directors coming under suspicion before his eventual arrest. The father-of-two found new accountancy work after leaving Transdev but did not tell his new employer about his offences. He was sacked about three weeks ago after a staff member at the bus firm contacted his new employer and told them about the court case. Defence barrister Ayesha Smart claimed Suter had embarked on the fraud spree after taking out a large mortgage for a new family home in 2013.She claimed he resigned from the company before he had been caught because of the impact it would have on his family and others. Ms Smart said the “enormous financial strain” on his family had been compounded by his wife being made redundant from her own accountancy job when she was pregnant. Suter, who had led a life free of criminal convictions and was “ashamed of his behaviour”, now faced having to sell his large family home. However, Recorder Simon Myerson cast doubt on Suter’s excuse about financial hardship because he had embarked on the massive fraud a year before he took the mortgage out on his new home. He said Suter had not spent the money on “necessities, but frivolities, luxury items that you did not need”. The judge blasted Suter for his “betrayal” which had led to a “black cloud of suspicion” hanging over innocent staff members. “This was an abuse of a position of power and trust and responsibility,” added Mr Myerson. Suter was given a two-year prison sentence, but this was suspended for 24 months because he had agreed to pay back “every penny”. He was also ordered to complete 300 hours’ unpaid work. The judge postponed financial-confiscation proceedings and Suter will be back before the court early next year when a judge will decide how much he has to pay back."

https://www.harrogateadvertiser.co....rom-harrogate-s-leading-bus-company-1-9464113

 

[johntea]

Just had to wait 25 minutes for the ‘every 7 minutes’ 1A/B/C service at Harrogate bus station

Then three of them showed up in one go!

 

[SCH117X]

Just had to wait 25 minutes for the ‘every 7 minutes’ 1A/B/C service at Harrogate bus station

Then three of them showed up in one go!

Starbeck Level Crossing no doubt being a major factor.

NYCC being as incompetent as ever have finally updated their service change pdf showing changes from 1 Dec (which do not involve Transdev or Connexions) so skipping all of the November changes.

 

[Stan Drews]

Just had to wait 25 minutes for the ‘every 7 minutes’ 1A/B/C service at Harrogate bus station

Then three of them showed up in one go!

Are the major roadworks still ongoing in Knaresborough?
I noticed something on twitter re Connexions taking an extra 45 mins on their one hour round trip on the X1. Must be a nightmare for both operators at the moment!

 

[Swimbar]

Are the major roadworks still ongoing in Knaresborough?
I noticed something on twitter re Connexions taking an extra 45 mins on their one hour round trip on the X1. Must be a nightmare for both operators at the moment!

Bond End roadworks are completed

 

[SCH117X]

Bond End roadworks are completed

Yes traffic flows through Bond End better than it ever has; problem is it shows up how poor traffic moves along Knaresborough High Street, it only needs a couple of delivery vehicles parked on it and an X1 (or two) waiting time for it to back up significantly. The timings Connexions apply to their X1 compared to Transdevs 1A can't help their timekeeping with an X1 being required to get to Harrogate 2 minutes quicker from Knaresborough High St/Bus Station. More crazily St James to the Swimming Pool/King James School is apparently 4 minutes on an X1, a full 6 minutes quicker than a 1A .

 

[Smidster]

And if people in our neck of the woods haven't suffered enough at the hands of industrial action - Drivers in Keighley are to strike next Tuesday (December 4th)

http://www.keighleybus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2558

 

[SCH117X]

A late morning trip by car today gave a snap shot of both operators unreliability as I saw by the time I passed through Empress Roundabout c 1128 two route 1s and 2 X1s along with both a X70 and a 7 inbound to the bus station and then no bus was seen the entire length of Knaresborough Road as far as the turning used until last Saturday by the X4 - on Transdevs 7 minute interval at least one more route 1 service should have been seen while the 2 X1s did seen remarkably too close together for a 15 minute interval. Looping back to Wetherby Road another X70 "via Follifoot" was at Sainsburys.
Checking the timetable that latter X70 was the 1020 from York and should have been at Empress Roundabout. The other X70 I had seen was presumably the 1055 from Wetherby via Plumpton and should have been somewhere behind me on the 1125 to Wetherby via Follifoot. The 7 was only around 3 minutes late (assuming it was not the previous 33 minutes late). I imagine the X70 would have occupied the Wetherby stand with the 7 having to arrive elsewhere (of course if was the other way round no doubt their would annoyed tweets).
Harrogate was chaos as usual which no doubt the operators will point to but after last years VOSAs investigations where it made clear to them that they know what the traffic is like the lesson does not seem to have been learnt.

 

[Cesarcollie]

A late morning trip by car today gave a snap shot of both operators unreliability as I saw by the time I passed through Empress Roundabout c 1128 two route 1s and 2 X1s along with both a X70 and a 7 inbound to the bus station and then no bus was seen the entire length of Knaresborough Road as far as the turning used until last Saturday by the X4 - on Transdevs 7 minute interval at least one more route 1 service should have been seen while the 2 X1s did seen remarkably too close together for a 15 minute interval. Looping back to Wetherby Road another X70 "via Follifoot" was at Sainsburys.
Checking the timetable that latter X70 was the 1020 from York and should have been at Empress Roundabout. The other X70 I had seen was presumably the 1055 from Wetherby via Plumpton and should have been somewhere behind me on the 1125 to Wetherby via Follifoot. The 7 was only around 3 minutes late (assuming it was not the previous 33 minutes late). I imagine the X70 would have occupied the Wetherby stand with the 7 having to arrive elsewhere (of course if was the other way round no doubt their would annoyed tweets).
Harrogate was chaos as usual which no doubt the operators will point to but after last years VOSAs investigations where it made clear to them that they know what the traffic is like the lesson does not seem to have been learnt.

So 'they know what the traffic is like'? How much running time should they allow? An average? The longest ever recorded?

 

[SCH117X]

So 'they know what the traffic is like'? How much running time should they allow? An average? The longest ever recorded?

Ensuring enough recovery time would help - take Connexions timetables, their is no additional time allowed for peak period journeys - 25 minutes St James to Harrogate is simply impossible, typically it can take most of that getting beyond Empress Roundabout from Starbeck Crossing. Transdevs 0804 1A gets 13 minutes longer than the 0800 X1 for the same journey.
The issue with the X70 running just in front of a 7 is nothing new, seems to invariably happen at that time of day, presumably as a cumulative effect of services running late and which the new timetable has not improved on with just 2 minutes allowed at Wetherby for terminating services on top of a minute reduced running time from Spofforth for services via Follifoot compared those the service along the A661.
Will be interesting to see if their is a PVR reduction arising from the X1 running at a 20 minute interval now on Saturdays or is an acknowledgement that a 15 minute interval cannot be maintained with a PVR of 4.
Transdev could improve their service by having a vehicle readily available for a replacement driver; all too often a incoming service arrives late and their is a driver change which by the time the departing driver has done his paperwork and the new driver his checks any chance of a quick turn round has vanished and the service departs well late.

 

[philthetube]

If services are constantly late, when there are no unusual circumstances then contact the traffic commissioners, they may be interested.

 

[goldisgood]

If services are constantly late, when there are no unusual circumstances then contact the traffic commissioners, they may be interested.

I know a certain working of a service that is 10 minutes late 90% of the time, and has been for the last 4 years! People are so used to it now that they don't realise it's late until the bus 15 minutes later from another operator which shares most of the route turns up and becomes full and standing...