Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

[Andyh82]

There is no way in a million years a service would be withdrawn because sometimes they can’t pull in on the correct stand.

If that happens they’d just pull onto the next stand, or in extreme cases the one beyond that and the driver should get out and shout out the service number.

They are basically just blaming someone else like they always do. It’s always either Transdev’s fault, or NYCC, or Metro, or Leeds City Council, or Northern Gas Networks, or Northern Power Grid, or Yorkshire Water...

 

[Swimbar]

There is no way in a million years a service would be withdrawn because sometimes they can’t pull in on the correct stand.

If that happens they’d just pull onto the next stand, or in extreme cases the one beyond that and the driver should get out and shout out the service number.

They are basically just blaming someone else like they always do. It’s always either Transdev’s fault, or NYCC, or Metro, or Leeds City Council, or Northern Gas Networks, or Northern Power Grid, or Yorkshire Water...

We have learnt that Transdev rules when it comes to the Harrogate Bus Station and nothing is ever their fault.
The 22 frequently sits in the bay from the time it arrives until it departs and nobody does anything about it!
The fact is that the Bus Station is not big enough for the number of bus movements. It can only get worse once the electrics enter regular service.

 

[SCH117X]

The fact is that the Bus Station is not big enough for the number of bus movements. It can only get worse once the electrics enter regular service. It can only get worse once the electrics enter regular service.

And why is that? The new electrics will charge whilst loading and having a range of IIRC around 35 miles will just be topping up rather than having a full charge. Also the new electrics will be using stands exclusive for the services they, and the two traditionally charged electric solos (which are to be used on the 24 to Pateley Bridge) work, Stand 3 being the 6 and (Transdev) X6 Stand 4 being the 2A and 2B, Stand 5 the 3 and 24 so they should not impact on any other service.
Most stands only have 4 departures a hour which is hardly running at capacity, where there can be a problem is the limited arrival only stands which poses issues with late running particularly with Route 1 / X1 and 36s arrive bunched together or a 7 or X70 arrives when a X70 or 7 is on stand. Stand 13 is usually used subject to no National Express working being due.
The only reason the bus station exists is because Blazefield bought the site off its prospective developer after it had been closed for a number of years and buses relocated onto surrounding streets. The bus station was consequently redeveloped by Blazefield to meet, as it was at the time, their needs, Firsts and National Expresses. If Connexions find it unworkable the choices apart from withdrawing services would be retime them to improve stand availability (for example retiming the X6/X6A so they could share stand 3 with the 6 which would have improved the service from the crazy situation of buses following each other) or terminate elsewhere.
As for Connexions blaming everyone they now have a new gripe as Metro have listed the changes the 412 and X70 and the withdrawal of the 780 as occurring last Thursday in the latest service changes https://www.wymetro.com/plan-a-journey/travel-news/service-changes/

 

[Swimbar]

And why is that? The new electrics will charge whilst loading and having a range of IIRC around 35 miles will just be topping up rather than having a full charge. Also the new electrics will be using stands exclusive for the services they, and the two traditionally charged electric solos (which are to be used on the 24 to Pateley Bridge) work, Stand 3 being the 6 and (Transdev) X6 Stand 4 being the 2A and 2B, Stand 5 the 3 and 24 so they should not impact on any other service.
Most stands only have 4 departures a hour which is hardly running at capacity, where there can be a problem is the limited arrival only stands which poses issues with late running particularly with Route 1 / X1 and 36s arrive bunched together or a 7 or X70 arrives when a X70 or 7 is on stand. Stand 13 is usually used subject to no National Express working being due.
The only reason the bus station exists is because Blazefield bought the site off its prospective developer after it had been closed for a number of years and buses relocated onto surrounding streets. The bus station was consequently redeveloped by Blazefield to meet, as it was at the time, their needs, Firsts and National Expresses. If Connexions find it unworkable the choices apart from withdrawing services would be retime them to improve stand availability (for example retiming the X6/X6A so they could share stand 3 with the 6 which would have improved the service from the crazy situation of buses following each other) or terminate elsewhere.
As for Connexions blaming everyone they now have a new gripe as Metro have listed the changes the 412 and X70 and the withdrawal of the 780 as occurring this coming Thursday in the latest service changes https://www.wymetro.com/plan-a-journey/travel-news/service-changes/

I see that the 'electric' service 24 can get from the Bus Station to the Hydro in 3 minutes during the evening peak! Electric power is clearly the future!!

 

[Alexbus12]

I see that the 'electric' service 24 can get from the Bus Station to the Hydro in 3 minutes during the evening peak! Electric power is clearly the future!!

Our Magical friend Mr Hornby seems to think so.. I guess what ever he says the minions will always follow

 

[SCH117X]

Presumably the Saturday times are more accurate for Mon-Fri but even then 7 minutes can easily be the time it takes to the Royal Hall.

Connexions X70 timetable still remains odd; between Spofforth and Wetherby those running via Plompton are timed for 7 minutes while those via Follifoot will be given 8 instead of 5 minutes. Going the other way the Follifoots still get 10 minutes between Woodlands Corner and the Bus Station while the Plumptons have 2 minutes longer.

 

[Andyh82]

Another exchange on Twitter

A Harrogate twitter account asked Transdev why they are using a diesel generator in the bus station to power the electric buses, meaning more not less pollution

Transdev didn’t respond immediately

The twitter account chased them up criticising Transdev for not responding - Connexions retweeted this one.

Transdev then responded, and the original account thanked them.

 

[SCH117X]

The diesel generator is for backup purposes in the event of their being an electric power cut - presumably it has been tried to check it functions properly but its certainly not a main feature of the system, and because the electric supply still has not been connected up the five remaining Versas plus B7s are the mainstay of the routes the new Electrics will work

 

[SCH117X]

Three awards for Transdev in this year Route One Awards, Alex Hornby for Large Operator Manager of the Year, Andy Turnbull (The Harrogate Bus Company) for Rising Star and The Harrogate Bus Company for Small/Medium Bus Operator of the Year

 

[theblackwatch]

Three awards for Transdev in this year Route One Awards, Alex Hornby for Large Operator Manager of the Year, Andy Turnbull (The Harrogate Bus Company) for Rising Star and The Harrogate Bus Company for Small/Medium Bus Operator of the Year

I find it a bit sad that some Connexions employees have posted an 'angry' reaction to the announcements regarding the winners on Route One's facebook page. Still, I'm sure they think it shows them in a good light!

 

[JP78]

Goodness the Transdev fans are rife on here aren't they - defending the company on every occasion! You should check out if they're hiring a new PR person....

They're both as bad as each other. They've both aimed low at times on Social Media and regardless of who owns it, a Bus Station should really be allowed to accommodate any services that serve passengers, regardless. I do think it was a wrong move to kick Connexions' services out of the bus station and at the end of the day, as an enthusiast I'd rather they both succeeded and worked together, providing more bus driver jobs, better services and more.

That said, maybe if Connexions grew up and stopped making snappy unprofessional comments at the same time as then saying they were trying to have a constructive discussion, they might not have had their services moved. They're just as bad as each other.

I was sent a rather interesting copy of the European Workers' Council newsletter for Blazefield a couple of weeks ago which highlighted a great number of issues across all their depots. One that did make me chuckle was "
Alex Hornby’s high social media presence does nothing to help the general feeling of unrest, members see him trotting around this country and Europe telling everyone one what an amazing company he runs, surrounding himself with sycophantic lackeys and quite frankly fiddling whilst Rome burns.
"

Transdev are far from perfect, so are Connexions. But I think Transdev do a better job displaying themselves as being professional to people from the outside.

 

[peterblue]

Thanks for your post, JP78. I agree with your views.

https://www.docdroid.net/jw15brV/ewc-newsletter-2018.docx

This is the document if anyone else is interested in reading it !

 

[SCH117X]

I do think it was a wrong move to kick Connexions' services out of the bus station

Pretty obvious to any one using the bus station the decision was made on the least number of passengers that would be affected whilst the works went on; if Transdev really wanted to spiteful they would have kicked the X1 out. And yes time keeping is appalling at times for both operators; its not unusual to see two X1s, 3's and 2A/B's running together on what should be 15 minute interval services, never mind bunched up 36s and Route 1s on what should be 10 and 7 minute intervals, with consequential issues stand wise at the bus station. This was certainly the case bar a minute or two as a 2B then a 2A passed me this evening (both being B7s, and the one on the 2B not sounding particularly well). There is some form of working together in terms of timetabling on the Wetherby service no doubt forced through the use of the same stand.

 

[AJW12]

Thanks for your post, JP78. I agree with your views.

https://www.docdroid.net/jw15brV/ewc-newsletter-2018.docx

This is the document if anyone else is interested in reading it !

That was interesting....jeez. If that's valid (a lot of the content sounds familiar) then it sounds like things are more than slightly problematic.

 

[Andyh82]

So where is the MD Russell Revill supposed to have gone then?

 

[SCH117X]

Some oddities arising from that document - Keighley cannot put branded buses on other services but Harrogate do it all the time; and at times of complete chaos its not unknown for a 36 vehicles to turn up on Harrogate local services.

Warranty repairs - hardly the operators fault if a new vehicle goes pop, but why were covering vehicles not provided as part of the warranty ? Surely the Mainline buses "falling to bits" will be dealt with under warranty (or have been)

Pretty certain seen a tweet of Mr Hornby at Malton in the intervening period since the date of that document.

The replacement buses at Burnley are 16-17 years old, not 20, and personally I would rather travel on a neatly presented
solid on the road B10BLE than more recent very plastic flimsy vehicles

 

[Deerfold]

Goodness the Transdev fans are rife on here aren't they - defending the company on every occasion! You should check out if they're hiring a new PR person....

Are you sure you're reading the same forum? There's plenty of things Transdev haven't been defended for.

I think most on here see them as better than the average bus company - but sometimes they let that go to their head and ignore complaints and issues.

I had an e-mail from Alex Hornby recently about a number of complaints I made - it sounded encouraging, but Transdev Keighley still have 3 errors in online timestables (2 dating from this month and one from October).

 

[duncombec]

It's an interesting document, and its true that at first read, it does seem pretty damning. But then I considered it some more, and I'm not so sure it is.

Firstly, it's from the EWC - Whilst not wishing to paint everyone in corporate colours, Works Council and Unionised employees are more likely to present things in a negative light. One presumes any form of response from any level of Transdev management would see things differently, and we only have one side of the story. Most noticeably, it doesn't actually state the way in which the questions were asked - there may have been a negative predisposition from the outset. The more stories I read about the antics of the RMT in London and on National Rail, the less convinced I become that only the employers suffer from belligerent attitudes and handing out 'summons' to meetings. [Tin hat on for that statement!]

Many of the problems listed appear endemic throughout the industry. Shortage of buses? Shortage of drivers? Erroneous timetable leaflets sent to print? Low staff morale? Minimal pay increases? Cost cutting? Timekeeping issues? 'Unrenumerative' services being cut? New vehicles arriving and then being sent elsewhere? Not being listened to because you're not from (somewhere else not directly connected with the area)? Management not there because they are somewhere else? These all happen regularly at my local (non-Transdev) company. It's not unique. They are neither here, nor do they get me there half of the time!

It appears from that document that the majority of the blame actually lies with middle management - and whilst the managing director is ultimately responsible for them (especially if he hired them as his 'cronies'), why is that document not going after the specific individuals? The overly positive social media presence (especially from the MD) may indeed not help matters, but is the era of one aged, staid manager who is barely seen out of his office, running services that have barely changed for years and with no effort to make things better *really* any better?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's an interesting document, and its true that at first read, it does seem pretty damning. But then I considered it some more, and I'm not so sure it is.

Firstly, it's from the EWC - Whilst not wishing to paint everyone in corporate colours, Works Council and Unionised employees are more likely to present things in a negative light. One presumes any form of response from any level of Transdev management would see things differently, and we only have one side of the story. Most noticeably, it doesn't actually state the way in which the questions were asked - there may have been a negative predisposition from the outset. The more stories I read about the antics of the RMT in London and on National Rail, the less convinced I become that only the employers suffer from belligerent attitudes and handing out 'summons' to meetings. [Tin hat on for that statement!]

Many of the problems listed appear endemic throughout the industry. Shortage of buses? Shortage of drivers? Erroneous timetable leaflets sent to print? Low staff morale? Minimal pay increases? Cost cutting? Timekeeping issues? 'Unrenumerative' services being cut? New vehicles arriving and then being sent elsewhere? Not being listened to because you're not from (somewhere else not directly connected with the area)? Management not there because they are somewhere else? These all happen regularly at my local (non-Transdev) company. It's not unique. They are neither here, nor do they get me there half of the time!

It appears from that document that the majority of the blame actually lies with middle management - and whilst the managing director is ultimately responsible for them (especially if he hired them as his 'cronies'), why is that document not going after the specific individuals? The overly positive social media presence (especially from the MD) may indeed not help matters, but is the era of one aged, staid manager who is barely seen out of his office, running services that have barely changed for years and with no effort to make things better *really* any better?

A very balanced view there.

I'm no great fan of Alex Hornby and his flair for self promotion. It's all a bit "I love me - do you love me too?" if I'm being honest.

Clearly there have been mistakes made such as CityZap Manchester and perhaps they underestimated the task of sorting out Rosso. Those are things, and others, that can be put at the door of the management team, and the removal of long service awards seems a perverse thing to do. In the scheme of things, it's pennies, and just provides an easy stick with which to be beaten!

There are many other areas that are clearly industry wide though. The financial pressures and need to get the most out of the fleet, driver shortages, etc. I mean, we've seen Rosso sell out before they went pop, and Stephensons fold with no notice so it's not an easy industry in which to prosper.

I'm sure not everything is as "amazing" as AH would like to point out but, as was said, the EWC have an agenda too. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[Deerfold]

Some oddities arising from that document - Keighley cannot put branded buses on other services but Harrogate do it all the time; and at times of complete chaos its not unknown for a 36 vehicles to turn up on Harrogate local services.

A little unsure of the accuracy, too. The 62 gets 66-branded buses quite often, especially on a Sunday (though it didn't when they were new). The 62 also sometimes gets Keighley Jets which are supposed to be for the K services.

 

[Andyh82]

I don’t think route branding counts on a Sunday both here and in most places.

 

[theblackwatch]

A couple of well-balanced posts at #888 and #889 there. It's not just in the bus industry that some of the items listed exist - lack of pay increases, cost cutting and not being listened to apply to a good number of jobs! Clearly there are some issues which need to be addressed, although given this is dated June, I presume and hope that some of the things mentioned have been resolved now, such as the pay dispute at Harrogate (given that it mentions a postal ballot was taking place, and there as been no industrial action).

I travel with both Connexions and Transdev, and both have their plus and minus points. Transdev's fares seem to go up every few months, whereas Connexions are cheaper and, from my enthusiast point of view, have an interesting fleet - but at the times I often wish to travel, they don't run. Transdev come over as more professional, and on the two occasions I've felt the need to complain, I felt they've dealt with it well and not just fobbed me off with an excuse.

 

[SCH117X]

I find it a bit sad that some Connexions employees have posted an 'angry' reaction to the announcements regarding the winners on Route One's facebook page. Still, I'm sure they think it shows them in a good light!

Seem to have been pulled - the only comments when I looked were congratulatory one. The constant sniping does no one any favours and makes one operator in particular look highly unprofessional and who constantly seems to forget they sparked the war by sticking an X70 5 minutes in front of a 770. Wondering if anyone at Starbeck reads this thread as a nice solid B10BLE is on use on the Harrogate locals this morning hopefully in place of a bouncy B7RLE

 

[theblackwatch]

Seem to have been pulled - the only comments when I looked were congratulatory one. The constant sniping does no one any favours and makes one operator in particular look highly unprofessional and who constantly seems to forget they sparked the war by sticking an X70 5 minutes in front of a 770. Wondering if anyone at Starbeck reads this thread as a nice solid B10BLE is on use on the Harrogate locals this morning hopefully in place of a bouncy B7RLE

They aren't comments, they are reactions - and they are still there. Go to https://www.facebook.com/pg/routeonemagazine/posts/?ref=page_internal and scroll down to the awards and you will see an 'angry' face rather than a thumbs up 'like' given by certain individuals.

 

[Alexbus12]

They aren't comments, they are reactions - and they are still there. Go to https://www.facebook.com/pg/routeonemagazine/posts/?ref=page_internal and scroll down to the awards and you will see an 'angry' face rather than a thumbs up 'like' given by certain individuals.

Maybe we should banish the freedom to comment or react in a negative way on social media. I'm sure this would please transdev

 

[Swimbar]

The diesel generator is for backup purposes in the event of their being an electric power cut - presumably it has been tried to check it functions properly but its certainly not a main feature of the system, and because the electric supply still has not been connected up the five remaining Versas plus B7s are the mainstay of the routes the new Electrics will work

BBC News now have the story https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-46126728

Harrogate's "trailblazing" fleet of electric buses is currently being powered by a diesel generator.

Harrogate Bus Company unveiled eight electric buses in July, announcing a five year vision to make Harrogate a low emission bus town.

But in a statement, the company revealed it needs a generator because it is struggling with "infrastructure".

No doubt there will be a positive spin from Alex shortly!!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Maybe we should banish the freedom to comment or react in a negative way on social media. I'm sure this would please transdev

As with any freedom, there is the responsibility to go with it.

It is difficult not to seem partisan on the subject of Conn vs Transdev. I don't know the man and it doesn't sit easy in watching Alex Hornby and his publicity hungry nature. I don't buy that everything is "amazing" but equally, are we saying that Transdev are utter rubbish? Of course they aren't. They have made some silly moves like the CityZap to Manchester (always struggled to see that one working) and that was rightly questioned. Equally, there's the oft repeated "oh, they reduced Tadcaster to a half hourly service" line or "fares have increased on Coastliner" yet some seem to ignore the understandable reasons for both of those, or to recognise that away from AH's hyperbole, they actually do a lot of very good things.

Similarly, we can argue about Conn and their competitive services but they have tried to make a go of other opportunities. Again, some have succeeded whilst others go into the category of valiant efforts. FWIW, it isn't particularly edifying to see some of the antics of both firms with registration and counter registration etc - each is culpable.

However, it does seem that Transdev tend not to use social media to snipe at Conn though I recall there was one such episode a couple of months back. On the other hand, Conn do seem to be petty in some of their postings - the retweet the other day about the diesel generator by the bus station being a case in point.

It's all just got a bit tiresome!

 

[SCH117X]

BBC News now have the story https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-46126728
No doubt there will be a positive spin from Alex shortly!!

Not sure there needs to be - the use of the electrics is still a rarity and the electrics appear to be charged at the depot and used on a limited number of workings before returning to the depot ; yesterday evening a 2B,3 and 6 were all B7RLE workings. There was one of the 68 reg Electrics on stand 3 with a number of staff on board lit , unlit, lit, lowered on its suspension, raised back up...it did force the 6 to make use stand 5 before the 3 arrived

 

[Andyh82]

Some people seem obsessed with Alex Hornby and are systematically ruining two threads here.

Look in the Rosso thread where some innocent fleet news has be met with a load of childish posts.

 

[AJW12]

Someone said it before, it looks like someone on here is employed by them to jump in as soon as anything critical is mentioned to defend them.

Does seem a bit ridiculous that electric buses are being charged up by diesel generators - there was a separate thread on this forum at some point about it but I do wonder about the amount of money spent on projects about this, compared to the benefit yielded. Not just aiming this at Transdev but in general, a lot of these electric bus projects cost a tonne of money, adjustments need making and then compared to using hybrids etc I wonder what the effects on the area's air quality in general is.

Similar in York. The electric buses introduced on the Poppleton Bar service work well (I just, again, wonder what the difference would've been if they just used Hybrids) after a high set up cost and then they went to get more for the Monks Cross service too - the buses were delayed by over a year, were expensive and then when rolled out there were issues with the charging and massive issues with the fact that they'd replaced large and more spacious B7RLEs with versas which feel very cozy indeed inside.