Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

[billio]

Last time I travelled on the X70, which was on Thursday, there were 27 people on the bus including a mother with baby and pram and quite a few passengers without bus passes. It is not like that all the time I admit, but the hourly service did create considerable patronage. As it is now two hourly, the numbers have fallen off a bit.
I think it unlikely the 923 would be subsidised by NYCC as most of the route is in the West Yorkshire Metro area so I think, to get there interest it needs to be something more than that as I suggested earlier. (There was one advantage of the 923, it took you by a very roundabout route to Harewood House, Otley and Ilkley, which was very useful for me. Now the wait for a connection means it is better to travel by Leeds.)
People who use the bus to visit their bank in Wetherby will obviously have to switch to a York or Leeds bank, but perhaps they combined their bank visits with shopping on the market and elsewhere.
Tadcaster is very lucky to be on the Coastliner route, though the service frequency has been reduced since the introduction of the Zap between Leeds and York and the time of the last bus from Leeds is now too early to spend an evening at the theatre, concert etc. in Leeds.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Tadcaster is very lucky to be on the Coastliner route, though the service frequency has been reduced since the introduction of the Zap between Leeds and York and the time of the last bus from Leeds is now too early to spend an evening at the theatre, concert etc. in Leeds.

Remember that the frequency historically for the 843 (and all antecedents and variations) was only ever half hourly until First elected to compete!

 

[billio]

Remember that the frequency historically for the 843 (and all antecedents and variations) was only ever half hourly until First elected to compete!

Yes, those halcyon days when there were 6 buses an hour !. During the day, there are still 4 buses an hour between Leeds and York, it's just that two of them don't stop in Tadcaster, but flash past on the by-pass.

 

[mlambeuk]

looking at an article in the local "newspaper" i wonder if one of the people who comment works for Transdev or Connexions.
https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/16...b0avoC9Mw5ggIDrDLu-ie1r9MxuOpMZGcZ_0iGXgNtj4w

Three boys and a girl were injured when the exploding tyre caused debris to ‘blow up’ into the passenger area. The girl suffered facial injuries and one of the boys suffered leg injuries. Both were taken to hospital, while the other youngsters were allowed to recuperate at home.

I hope The DVSA do a thorough and effective investigation. In to this company.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, those halcyon days when there were 6 buses an hour !. During the day, there are still 4 buses an hour between Leeds and York, it's just that two of them don't stop in Tadcaster, but flash past on the by-pass.

Here's the nub:

How many vehicles do you need to run Cityzap?
How many vehicles do you need to run extra half hourly shorts on the 843?
How many extra passengers will you get from Tadcaster (a town of about 6,000)?
If you divert via Tad, how many of the Cityzap passengers will you lose?

Work that out and you'll have your answer

ps I don't know the answer

 

[Yorks185]

Here's the nub:

How many vehicles do you need to run Cityzap?
How many vehicles do you need to run extra half hourly shorts on the 843?
How many extra passengers will you get from Tadcaster (a town of about 6,000)?
If you divert via Tad, how many of the Cityzap passengers will you lose?

Work that out and you'll have your answer

ps I don't know the answer

4 Vehicles are needing to run the Cityzap (50-55 min End to End at a Half hour Frequency),843 takes just over an hour so would require another vehicle if they replaced CZ with extra Coastliners. I`m guessing adding Tadcaster would not be enough to pay for the 5th vehicle. If they did not serve Seacroft & run non-stop between Leeds & Tadcaster,it would still make it a little quicker (not sure if they would be able to still run it with 4 vehicles) but it still could be fast enough not to looze any CZ passengers.

 

[Andyh82]

But isn't every 30 minutes from Tadcaster to York a perfectly acceptable frequency?

 

[peterblue]

Tadcaster is a small village of about 8,000 people. Every 30 mins tadcaster to leeds/york seems fine to me.

 

[SCH117X]

Tadcaster is a small village of about 8,000 people. Every 30 mins tadcaster to leeds/york seems fine to me.

Taddy is a market town not a village, although admittedly in some parts of the country "villages" are as big if not bigger than many North Yorkshire towns.

 

[SCH117X]

From Transdev Harrogates Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/harrogatebus/posts/

"Good evening folks. We said we'd keep you updated of changes being made by other bus operators in Harrogate. We now understand that buses on routes X1 and X6 will be reduced from November 25th.

There are also some reductions being made on those buses to Wedderburn and Duchy, local buses in Ripon city and services between Knaresborough & Wetherby and Wetherby & Tadcaster. We are consulting with North Yorkshire County Council on many of these routes and will keep you posted he...re should there be further updates."

The plural reference to other bus operators is because the X1 is operated by Mr Temple, the rest of Connexions services by Harrogate Coach Travel (which he owns). The fact that HCT buses can be found on the X1 without any on hire signage seems to get overlooked.

 

[Alexbus12]

From Transdev Harrogates Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/harrogatebus/posts/

"Good evening folks. We said we'd keep you updated of changes being made by other bus operators in Harrogate. We now understand that buses on routes X1 and X6 will be reduced from November 25th.

There are also some reductions being made on those buses to Wedderburn and Duchy, local buses in Ripon city and services between Knaresborough & Wetherby and Wetherby & Tadcaster. We are consulting with North Yorkshire County Council on many of these routes and will keep you posted he...re should there be further updates."

The plural reference to other bus operators is because the X1 is operated by Mr Temple, the rest of Connexions services by Harrogate Coach Travel (which he owns). The fact that HCT buses can be found on the X1 without any on hire signage seems to get overlooked.

An on hire sign is not required but is preferred.

 

[goldisgood]

Here's what Connexions have said in reply to what HBC have tweeted https://twitter.com/connexionsbuses/status/1055689543553298432
How can't they get their head around the fact that they aren't obliged to space in the bus station which isn't owned by them and is owned by the competition If the bus station wasn't owned by a rival operator I'd have a bit more pity for them, as it should be more fair in that instance, but the bus station is owned by HBC and so they can give them a stand if they want to or not!

 

[Alexbus12]

Here's what Connexions have said in reply to what HBC have tweeted https://twitter.com/connexionsbuses/status/1055689543553298432
How can't they get their head around the fact that they aren't obliged to space in the bus station which isn't owned by them and is owned by the competition If the bus station wasn't owned by a rival operator I'd have a bit more pity for them, as it should be more fair in that instance, but the bus station is owned by HBC and so they can give them a stand if they want to or not!

Isn't there some rules or something in the buses act which states other operators can enter and use bus stations that aren't owned by them? im led to believe One of the problems Connexions was having was that Transdev weren't updating their information at stands. I believe when ever Connexions changed them themselves, they were removed.

 

[carlberry]

Isn't there some rules or something in the buses act which states other operators can enter and use bus stations that aren't owned by them? im led to believe One of the problems Connexions was having was that Transdev weren't updating their information at stands. I believe when ever Connexions changed them themselves, they were removed.

I believe the legislation dates back many years and has been updated recently (There was a case in the Isle of Wight in the early days of deregulation). The owner can charge a 'fair' price for the use of the facilities. I don't know if publicity is covered and, if it was, I suspect it would be down to the owner to agree how it was presented and updated (And the charge for doing so). I can see how having a competitor plastering your facilities with their own publicity might be a problem!

 

[Andyh82]

So they are withdrawing the services because some of their routes were moved about a metre up the road outside the bus station, perfectly viable to all, whilst the electricity works we’re taking place.

They always like to come up with all these excuses but I expect in reality the services just aren’t profitable.

 

[SCH117X]

So they are withdrawing the services because some of their routes were moved about a metre up the road outside the bus station, perfectly viable to all, whilst the electricity works we’re taking place.

They always like to come up with all these excuses but I expect in reality the services just aren’t profitable.

Connexions cannot even get their winge right - its the X4 and X12 that got moved; the X6, X6A and X52 share the same stand (6) along with the 747. The X1 has its own stand (12) and the X70 actually shares a stand with Transdevs 7 (9). If they had timed the X6 and X6A not to depart at the same times as Transdevs 6 they could have shared the stand used by the 6 allowing the X4 and X12 to use stand 6 (subject to the departure times not clashing with the X52 and 747). Now they are apparently reducing the X1 (presumably to half hourly) then they could have alternatively used 12 for the X4 and X12.

 

[Stan Drews]

So they are withdrawing the services because some of their routes were moved about a metre up the road outside the bus station, perfectly viable to all, whilst the electricity works we’re taking place.

They always like to come up with all these excuses but I expect in reality the services just aren’t profitable.

You are aware that nothing is EVER the fault of Connexions. It is always the fault of someone else. Have a trawl through the excuses made to complaints on their twitter account, ...if you want a laugh!!

 

[goldisgood]

You are aware that nothing is EVER the fault of Connexions. It is always the fault of someone else. Have a trawl through the excuses made to complaints on their twitter account, ...if you want a laugh!!

IMO they seem to be incapable of handling any situation that doesn't favour them - if the competition is better and their service is withdrawn then they put a negative spin on it for the competition. It's a free deregulated market, if your service is better then you will usually win.

 

[SCH117X]

You are aware that nothing is EVER the fault of Connexions. It is always the fault of someone else. Have a trawl through the excuses made to complaints on their twitter account, ...if you want a laugh!!

and their facebook site where guess whos fault it is, according to Connexions why have never replaced the previous operators timetable for the Ripon City services they are now withdrawing, and having a dig at a bus going up in flames (oops - what happened to one of theirs in Otley the other week)

 

[theblackwatch]

Full details of the changes (and links to new timetables) are now on Connexions website at http://www.connexionsbuses.com/uncategorized/changes-to-services-from-25th-november/

Two reasons are given

Because of cost pressures (increasing insurance and fuel to name a couple but no increase in concessionary pass re-imbursement) we are having to withdraw and change some services.

We have also taken the decision to withdraw and alter some services in the Harrogate area partly because of the situation in Harrogate Bus Station where we are unable to access the correct stands (or some at all) which is unfair to customers and our drivers.

 

[Stan Drews]

and their facebook site where guess whos fault it is, according to Connexions why have never replaced the previous operators timetable for the Ripon City services they are now withdrawing, and having a dig at a bus going up in flames (oops - what happened to one of theirs in Otley the other week)

Yeah, it’s funny how that particular bus fire seemed to go under the radar. I’m assuming it wasn’t a major one, or I’m sure it would have made more of an impact on social media.

 

[SCH117X]

Full details of the changes (and links to new timetables) are now on Connexions website at http://www.connexionsbuses.com/uncategorized/changes-to-services-from-25th-november/

Note the lack of proof reading re the X12 change - it will still run Mon-Fri but is withdrawn on Sat.
The 412 changes are bit more than a couple of journeys (which is a couple in each direction) - they have axed all journeys serving Thorpe Arch, Bickerton village and Bilton-in-Ainsty, reduced those serving Knapton and the last bus from Wetherby to York will be at 1520 rather than journeys at 1620 and 1725.

 

[Andyh82]

Notice how they’ve also put pressure on Transdev to replace their services, even though they’ve said nothing of the sort.

 

[goldisgood]

Notice how they’ve also put pressure on Transdev to replace their services, even though they’ve said nothing of the sort.

And they know that Transdev haven't said anything of the sort, as they have replied to tweets and also say that they have seen notices...

 

[SCH117X]

Yeah, it’s funny how that particular bus fire seemed to go under the radar. I’m assuming it wasn’t a major one, or I’m sure it would have made more of an impact on social media.

Suppose Transdev were unlucky in the B10BLE was filmed - at the end of the day it was not that badly damaged unlike the one that got well burnt out a couple of years back but had enough press attention to make people well aware. I know a number of people saw the Connexions bus on fire in Otley but it seems no one took a photo or filmed it, or if they did they did not try to sell their picture/film on to the local press on post them on a photo sharing web site.

 

[SCH117X]

Full details of the changes (and links to new timetables) are now on Connexions website at http://www.connexionsbuses.com/uncategorized/changes-to-services-from-25th-november/

Two reasons are given

Not being able to access the correct stand also affects Transdev services - some route 3 workings for example had to use an alternative stand in the past when the designated stand was blocked by an X52 which then shared it. Do not recall Transdev ever publicly complaining but when the reverse happened...

Incidentally just seen an X4 in the bus station using stand 1 rather than the on street stop to which it and the X12 had been diverted (and using which would have saved Connexions money as they obviously had no stand duties to pay). Also noted one of the electric solos has been repainted into the new Harrogate Electric livery.

 

[Alexbus12]

Not being able to access the correct stand also affects Transdev services - some route 3 workings for example had to use an alternative stand in the past when the designated stand was blocked by an X52 which then shared it. Do not recall Transdev ever publicly complaining but when the reverse happened...

Incidentally just seen an X4 in the bus station using stand 1 rather than the on street stop to which it and the X12 had been diverted (and using which would have saved Connexions money as they obviously had no stand duties to pay). Also noted one of the electric solos has been repainted into the new Harrogate Electric livery.

Transdev organise stands at harrogate so for them not to be able to access it is their problem..

 

[SCH117X]

Thinking about it not being able to use the correct stands seems a bit odd given the current arrangements with the X4 and X12 sharing stand 1 with the Transdev York 22 with departures at 25 (X12 between 0925 and 1625) 45 (X4 between 0945 and 1545) and only 4 22's at 1000, 1200, 1400 and 1740. It could be a case that the Transdev York driver has left the bus on the stand or moved it to the stand early having arrived at another- the arrivals are at 0922, 1114, 1314 and 1724. The Connexions winge referencing the X4 probably implies this has been the case.

As for stand 6 the departures are 00 (747 during the period the X6 and X6A run) 15 (X6) 30 (X52) 45 (X6A). Connexions winge references the X6 so it could be issues with late running Yorkshire Tiger 747s.

 

[SCH117X]

Transdev organise stands at harrogate so for them not to be able to access it is their problem..

They do arrange them not to clash but then there are problems caused by late running which is obviously affects every operator and quite reasonably in such instances where services share a stand one service may need to be relocated.

 

[Ianigsy]

I know a number of people saw the Connexions bus on fire in Otley but it seems no one took a photo or filmed it, or if they did they did not try to sell their picture/film on to the local press on post them on a photo sharing web site.

No, but there were a number of photos on the Otley-Our Town Facebook group. Doesn't seem to have interested the Wharfedale Observer, though, possibly because the incident happened on a Tuesday (usually the Wharfedale's press day) and wasn't considered newsworthy enough for the following week's edition.