Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

[SCH117X]

Connexions are also withdrawing the Ripon city services
"Connexions Buses have announced that the RS1-3 service will cease to operate from November 25 - the firm's managing director, Craig Temple, said there simply isn't enough revenue generated from the routes to cover costs. Mr Temple told the 'Gazette: "We only receive about £1 per pass, and the majority of customers on the town bus are pass holders. Legally they can't pay and use a pass - and apart from market day, there simply aren't enough to cover costs unfortunately." Residents who depend on the bus to access shops and services are calling for other regular users to write to Ripon City Council, North Yorkshire County Council, and Ripon and Skipton MP Julian Smith"

https://www.harrogateadvertiser.co....-after-loss-of-lifeline-bus-service-1-9383837

 

[SCH117X]

492, 493 Tadcaster to Sherburn
From Monday 8 October to Friday 19 October only

Looks like it will be run by NYCC thereafter as well a this entry is in VOSAs latest publication

Permit number CB001401/B1524

NORTH YORKSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL,INTEGRATED PASSENGER

TRANSPORT,1 RACECOURSE LANE,NORTHALLERTON ,DL7 8AD

Route numbers 492,493,494

To operate between Sherburn in Elmet and Tadcaster Bus Station

Application to register new service received on 24/9/2018

Effective date 22/10/2018
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ile/744603/np-2338-28-september-2018.pdf..pdf

 

[SCH117X]

Transdev are reducing the Mon-Sat 24 Harrogate-Pateley Bridge to largely a 90 min interval from the current hourly interval from 28 October meaning 8 return workings compared to the present 11. Sundays remain with three return workings. For some reason Mon-Fri times will differ in the early afternoon from Saturdays with departures from Harrogate being 0630 0830 1000 1130 1300 SO 1330 SX 1430 SO 1500 SX 1600 1730.
http://harrogatebus.co.uk/cmsUploads/route/files/24OCT2018TTWEB.pdf

 

[James101]

Legally they can't pay and use a pass - and apart from market day, there simply aren't enough to cover costs unfortunately."

I’ve seen the same or similar line repeated when town services have been withdrawn over the past few years, pass holders saying they would pay to keep the service. Does it occur to them they simply could pay a fare and leave the pass at home if they felt so strongly?

 

[SCH117X]

I’ve seen the same or similar line repeated when town services have been withdrawn over the past few years, pass holders saying they would pay to keep the service. Does it occur to them they simply could pay a fare and leave the pass at home if they felt so strongly?

Probably not and interestingly according to Connexions web site the fare is £1.20
http://www.connexionsbuses.com/routes-fares/ripon-town-services/
so they are only losing 20p a journey on ENCTS passes which makes their blaming of the ENCTS payment for the withdrawal of the service a bit odder.

 

[Alexbus12]

Probably not and interestingly according to Connexions web site the fare is £1.20
http://www.connexionsbuses.com/routes-fares/ripon-town-services/
so they are only losing 20p a journey on ENCTS passes which makes their blaming of the ENCTS payment for the withdrawal of the service a bit odder.

"Only" a company doesn't, nor shouldn't be loosing any money on a commercial service.

 

[Deerfold]

"Only" a company doesn't, nor shouldn't be loosing any money on a commercial service.

Is that supposed to mean something?

 

[Swimbar]

Tweet this evening " the first of our pioneering, zero-emission buses hit the streets tomorrow". According to the yesterdays WYIS fleetlist only 4 of the 8 have arrived.

All appear to be sat in the depot this morning!! (along with 2763 which is no longer 'Pride of the North')

 

[Alexbus12]

Is that supposed to mean something?

A company won't run a service if it's losing money. Simple.

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[Bungle965]

A company won't run a service if it's losing money. Simple.

They will if they see it making money in the future, for example the York to Leeds CityZap, I doubt it was making money from the word go. With many new services it takes time to grow patronage and as a business you have got to plan and expect that.
Bigger businesses such as Transdev have the ability to sustain loses much more than a smaller one such as Connexion has.
Sam

 

[spuddie]

All appear to be sat in the depot this morning!! (along with 2763 which is no longer 'Pride of the North')

What happened to 2763? I saw a mention of a bad rta on another forum with mentions of it being seen on twitter but I've searched and can't find anything.

 

[SCH117X]

I used the word "only" as NYCC are known to only pay operators peanuts for ENTCS payments yet here is an example of them paying 83.5% of the normal fare so if the service was so fragile Connexions should have increased the fare for some journeys rather than having a flat fare across the town - would be interesting to know by comparison what Transdev charge for a Ripon-Gallows Hill single. Re the Volvo Electrics one was trying to exit the deport this morning when large parts of Harrogate were at a standstill due to part of the A59 being closed due to an accident so whether it made it to the bus station is another matter

 

[Bungle965]

I used the word "only" as NYCC are known to only pay operators peanuts for ENTCS payments yet here is an example of them paying 83.5% of the normal fare so if the service was so fragile Connexions should have increased the fare for some journeys rather than having a flat fare across the town - would be interesting to know by comparison what Transdev charge for a Ripon-Gallows Hill single. Re the Volvo Electrics one was trying to exit the deport this morning when large parts of Harrogate were at a standstill due to part of the A59 being closed due to an accident so whether it made it to the bus station is another matter

Run out of leccy before it got there?
Sam

 

[Deerfold]

A company won't run a service if it's losing money. Simple.

That makes more sense, thanks.

 

[johntea]

What on earth happened this morning with the Transdev '1' services from Harrogate bus station?

I turned up around 09:15 and the next service was advertised as about 15 minutes away which seemed unusual, then about 4 buses all turned up at once and put their 'Out Of Service' destination up, eventually a packed 1A finally departed around 09:55!

Rumour on board the bus that Transdev are a bit short of drivers at the moment and their priority is the 36 service which apparently runs with a lot of 'thin air' on board during the day anyway!

I have noticed the 'every 7 minutes or less' claim for the route is pretty much completely useless!

 

[Bungle965]

What on earth happened this morning with the Transdev '1' services from Harrogate bus station?

I turned up around 09:15 and the next service was advertised as about 15 minutes away which seemed unusual, then about 4 buses all turned up at once and put their 'Out Of Service' destination up, eventually a packed 1A finally departed around 09:55!

Rumour on board the bus that Transdev are a bit short of drivers at the moment and their priority is the 36 service which apparently runs with a lot of 'thin air' on board during the day anyway!

I have noticed the 'every 7 minutes or less' claim for the route is pretty much completely useless!

First Manchester had an issue with a shortage of drivers a few months ago when they closed down the Bury depot there. This led to people not transferring over either Bolton or Queens Road depots therefore creating a shortage. I believe they did end up getting into some sort of trouble by the Traffic Commissioner (?).
Hopefully it is not as serious as that and that it will be solved soon, but if not I imagine the commissioner would be interested.
Sam

 

[SCH117X]

Road works in Knaresborough are causing major delays to Route 1 (and Connexions X1) workings - 4 way temporary traffic lights at Bond End (A59/A6055/B6165 junctions) whilst the previously traffic light controlled junctions are replaced by mini roundabouts. They have put in the mini roundabout at the A59/A6055 junction but are working on the A59/B6165 junction, the consequence of this is the temporary traffic light controlling A59 Harrogate and B6165 traffic is between the two junctions. When it goes green, due to the priority at the mini roundabout, traffic on the A59 Knaresborough High Street (including Route 1 and X1 buses) has to give way to traffic on the A6055 with the consequence that the lights often go back to red before many, if any, vehicles have moved off the High Street. Knaresborough bound at the time of day John was waiting for a bus at Harrogate the queue is typically back across the river bridge to Mother Shiptons.

Additional comment: Possibly the reason for the vehicles going NIS was to run them back to Knaresborough via Calcutt avoiding the road works as the main custom flow at that time of day would be to Harrogate.

 

[theblackwatch]

I had been going to comment on the roadworks, but SCH117X beat me to it. Earlier this evening, around 18.15 (so after the rush hour), I spent around 15 minutes queuing on Knaresborough High Street as a result of them. It is no surprise the timetable has gone out of the window.

Earlier on today, I went for a ride on the Volvo B8RLE Demonstrator (Transdev 1900) which normally works the 21 (Knaresborough to Boroughbridge) service. I'd been going to do it to Minskip or Boroughbridge but discovered the fare was a whopping £8.90 return! I settled for a ride to Lidl instead. The fare is very interesting, compared with other journeys of a similar or much longer distance (eg Harrogate to Wetherby or Leeds) it is much more expensive. I guess one major difference is that there isn't a competing bus or train service on the route...

 

[SCH117X]

The 21 is the old 57 which was a NYCC subsidised service, would not NYCC have a role in setting the fares.

 

[SCH117X]

The NYCC 492/493/494 timetable from 22 Oct https://www.northyorkstravel.info/timetable/492oct18.pdf
reverts to the timetable operated by Connexions in comparison to the limited service they are currently providing https://www.northyorkstravel.info/timetable/492oct181.pdf. Connexions despite seemingly revamping their web site still list the service in their somewhat scrambled listing of services http://www.connexionsbuses.com/routes-fares/

 

[Stan Drews]

The NYCC 492/493/494 timetable from 22 Oct https://www.northyorkstravel.info/timetable/492oct18.pdf
reverts to the timetable operated by Connexions in comparison to the limited service they are currently providing https://www.northyorkstravel.info/timetable/492oct181.pdf. Connexions despite seemingly revamping their web site still list the service in their somewhat scrambled listing of services http://www.connexionsbuses.com/routes-fares/

They withdrew the 38, accompanied by a big celebration, but still list it as running on their website, so I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for the 492/3/4 to disappear!!

 

[SCH117X]

They withdrew the 38, accompanied by a big celebration, but still list it as running on their website, so I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for the 492/3/4 to disappear!!

I'm not - I did enquire some time back why the service listing was so shambolic and of course it was not their fault, they blamed their service provider - the service listing is a simple <li> list which could readily be sorted into a coherent list.

 

[theblackwatch]

Judging by an e-mail we've had at work today, it sounds like there are some changes to the X70 from/to Tadcaster on November 24th and it will no longer be serving Thorp Arch Trading Estate. Anyone know any more?

 

[Ianigsy]

Something certainly heated up today, as a Connexions double decker caught fire in the middle of Otley this afternoon!

 

[theblackwatch]

Judging by an e-mail we've had at work today, it sounds like there are some changes to the X70 from/to Tadcaster on November 24th and it will no longer be serving Thorp Arch Trading Estate. Anyone know any more?

Further to this, Transdev has posted this on Facebook this morning:

‪Good morning. Customers are beginning to contact us about a significant number of withdrawals being made by another operator in Harrogate. We are currently awaiting confirmed details, and will discuss with our colleagues at North Yorkshire County Council before letting you know if we can step in to assist.‬

No changes are planned to our existing services other than those already announced for the 24 and V32 from 28 October.

Anyone know more about this?

 

[SCH117X]

VOSA https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...a06c24c12890ed448ac93bd&form-actions[submit]=
has a cancellation of the X4 from 25 Nov along with cancellations of the 780 Knaresborough-Wetherby service, and the Ripon local services. Also new registrations for the X1, X6A and X12 from the same date. No mention of the X6 but the X6A registration is a variation of that which includes the X6. Separately the variation of the X70 from the same date was received by VOSA on 11 Oct https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/526303/

 

[billio]

Judging by an e-mail we've had at work today, it sounds like there are some changes to the X70 from/to Tadcaster on November 24th and it will no longer be serving Thorp Arch Trading Estate. Anyone know any more?

Apparently the X70 from Tadcaster to Harrogate will stop running at the end of November. This service is not subsidised and Connexions cannot afford to keep it running. I think there was some initial subsidy for the service from the builders of the new housing at Newton Kyme.
Whether NYCC will step in and run a service between Tadcaster and Wetherby, where you can get to Harrogate using the 7, is not known.
The elimination of the X70 will mean no connection to Thorp Arch trading estate from Tadcaster. Also, as all the banks have closed in Tadcaster many older people switched their accounts to the Wetherby branches and will now have no access unless they have a car.
We are trying to get our local politicians interested in the impact of this loss of service so please write to Nigel Adams MP.
As North Yorkshire are "nationalising" the Tadcaster - Sherburn service, I was thinking they might like to extend this route through to Wetherby. Two buses would be required, but there would be 10 spare minutes in the schedule which would allow the service to be extended to South Milford past Aldi and the station.

 

[SCH117X]

Wetherby-Tadcaster was served by the 923 from Otley; it got truncated at Wetherby in order that it did not compete with the commercial X70 so possibly that rather limited service will get re-extended to Tadcaster. Seems that the comments re the 38 applies to a number of other services to some extent "Owing partly to competition and partly due to the impending Euro 6 Low Emission zone which will mean our buses need replacing, we are having to withdraw the Service...This was not an easy decision as we have got some lovely loyal customers who use our buses – but in simple terms, it doesn’t make enough money to cover its costs now and certainly wouldn’t sustain the £200k plus per bus we would need to invest to keep the service running into the Low emission era." http://www.connexionsbuses.com/uncategorized/service-38-to-cease/

 

[Stan Drews]

Connexions have only been running the X70 through to Tadcaster for a relatively short time, so difficult to understand how it’s loss will cause such great hardship to a community that managed without it for many years previously. I wouldn’t be surprised if WYCA/NYCC retender a link running a few times a day as the 923 used to do, although much will depend on their budgets.

Also, if I relied on public transport and had to get somewhere else from Tadcaster after my bank closed, I think I’d have chosen York, with its regular 30 minute service throughout the day!