Concessionary Travel - Rules

[railboy]

I have a Scottish Blind Persons National Entitlement Card that allows free travel on buses within Scotland. I understand that this allows free travel on all scheduled buses within Scotland, with the exception of premium fare night buses, excursions or tours.

On Thursday I tried to use my card on a bus service that is operated by Parks of Hamilton, it runs once per day from Glasgow to Strathaven. It had a card reading machine on the bus so I placed it as usual on the reader, but the driver said the card was not valid on the bus because it received no SPT funding. I explained to him that this wasn't true because I have used my card on many other buses that do not get support from SPT, including those outside the Strathclyde area. The driver kept insisting it isn't valid and that it would be £8 if I wanted to travel. At this point, another passenger rudely butted in stating that it was a private bus, while I ignored her, I knew for a fact it couldn't possibly be a private bus since I was being offered the chance to pay a fare and get on. I'm very surprised at being refused travel with my pass as I have never had problems on any other bus.

I couldn't pay the fare as I had no cash on me so I feel I was refused travel on a bus that I believe I should have been able to use for free. I've had problems in the past with this bus but I was given student funding for travel so it wasn't much a problem, but now I want to try and get to the bottom of this, to find out why they are refusing to take concession cards and if there is anything I can do to change this.

I have done some research online which mainly presents generic information about the scheme that I already know, but what I am after is some specific rules that can clearly define whether the bus company is right to refuse my card or whether I am right to fight my case. I want to be sure before I make a complaint to the operator so that I can present factual information to back my complaint up as I feel without it; the bus company will just say tough luck.

Does anyone know if there is a specific set of rules that I could refer to or the best way to get hold of these in order for me to decide how to proceed, or even any help on how I could proceed with this? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[overthewater]

Have you phone parks and asked them if the cards are valid on route 54?

There is one more exception to the cards and that is to non local services ie premium service. From the looks of it route 54 is one of them as 21 mile gap between stops, which means it will not get bus grant.

Also that Coach operates other routes during the day.

 

[Stan Drews]

Parks do not have a registered local bus service operating between Glasgow and Strathaven (i.e. registered with the TC), therefore the Scottish National Entitlement will not be valid on this journey that you describe.

 

[transmanche]

Parks do not have a registered local bus service operating between Glasgow and Strathaven (i.e. registered with the TC), therefore the Scottish National Entitlement will not be valid on this journey that you describe.

That's odd, as I thought the Scottish Entitlement Card allowed free travel on both registered local and long-distance services - e.g. travel on Citylink services is free with the card (except for overnight services).

 

[34D]

Hmmm. My area of expertise is the English rather than scottish scheme, however this faq on the national express website is interesting.

If natex give free travel, then possibly Parks will too?

 

[railboy]

I've been able to use my card on other "long distance" routes before such as Glasgow to Edinburgh and it sometimes uses a Parks of Hamilton bus and it works fine. I have also used it on Citylink's express service from Glasgow to Aberdeen which are longer distances and had no problems.

I have just come across a new Citylink service that states that concession cards not valid - http://www.citylink.co.uk/citylinkair.php

I think they just dont want to accept it and hope they can get away with it!

 

[90019]

I think they just dont want to accept it and hope they can get away with it!

If they're not getting a subsidy for it, they're perfectly entitled to not accept concession passes.

 

[overthewater]

I've been able to use my card on other "long distance" routes before such as Glasgow to Edinburgh and it sometimes uses a Parks of Hamilton bus and it works fine. I have also used it on Citylink's express service from Glasgow to Aberdeen which are longer distances and had no problems.

I have just come across a new Citylink service that states that concession cards not valid - http://www.citylink.co.uk/citylinkair.php

I think they just dont want to accept it and hope they can get away with it!

Nearly ALL the Scottish Citylink/megabus/parks of Hamilton services on the Scottish Citylink network are registered local bus service.

That Airport service is not registered

 

[Stan Drews]

Nearly ALL the Scottish Citylink/megabus/parks of Hamilton services on the Scottish Citylink network are registered local bus service.

That Airport service is not registered

Indeed, the length of the service is irrelevant, but the fact that it is registered, or not, with the TC. The length of the route will simply determine which set of drivers hours rules apply.
So, as I said before, the Parks service you speak of isn't registered, so they are under no obligation to accept the National Entitlement Card on it, and certainly will not get reimbursed if they did.

 

[bus man]

from what I understand I it is registered as a stopping service under the 1985 transport act (ie its not a coach service) then your pass should be valid. Look on vosa site and local bus tt site.

 

[railboy]

Indeed, the length of the service is irrelevant, but the fact that it is registered, or not, with the TC. The length of the route will simply determine which set of drivers hours rules apply.
So, as I said before, the Parks service you speak of isn't registered, so they are under no obligation to accept the National Entitlement Card on it, and certainly will not get reimbursed if they did.

I thought that all bus services within Scotland had to be registered with the Traffic Commissioner in Edinburgh unless it ran less than once every two weeks, was a rail replacement service or was under some kind of private hire. If it was the case that concessions could be refused if not registered, then wouldn't all companies just refuse to register their bus service to get around having to accept concessionary travel passes? This surely cant be right. I have always been under the impression that concessionary travel passes were valid on all local and long distance bus services within Scotland except tours, excursions and premium fare night buses. I do not believe that the bus service that refused my pass meets this description of a service that can refuse my concession pass.

 

[transmanche]

I have always been under the impression that concessionary travel passes were valid on all local and long distance bus services within Scotland except tours, excursions and premium fare night buses.

That concurs with my opinion (see post #4). Although the Transport Scotland website qualifies it by saying "virtually all local registered and long distance scheduled bus services available to the general public." - but I guess that refers to the "small number of services on which your National Entitlement Card cannot be used, for example premium fare night buses and City Sightseeing Buses."

 

[overthewater]

I thought that all bus services within Scotland had to be registered with the Traffic Commissioner in Edinburgh unless it ran less than once every two weeks, was a rail replacement service or was under some kind of private hire. If it was the case that concessions could be refused if not registered, then wouldn't all companies just refuse to register their bus service to get around having to accept concessionary travel passes? This surely cant be right. I have always been under the impression that concessionary travel passes were valid on all local and long distance bus services within Scotland except tours, excursions and premium fare night buses. I do not believe that the bus service that refused my pass meets this description of a service that can refuse my concession pass.

NO, back in 2011 a company did pull out of the scheme:

http://www.acadvertiser.co.uk/lanar...-for-concessionary-passengers-65864-28711121/

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/...s-pass-pensioners-pay-fares-up-front.13544168

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/...mpanys-u-turn-on-free-oap-travel-ban.14065965

If the services are not registered said companies do not get fuel rebate.

 

[transmanche]

NO, back in 2011 a company did pull out of the scheme:

http://www.acadvertiser.co.uk/lanar...-for-concessionary-passengers-65864-28711121/

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/...s-pass-pensioners-pay-fares-up-front.13544168

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/...mpanys-u-turn-on-free-oap-travel-ban.14065965

If the services are not registered said companies do not get fuel rebate.

Well the first article is bit confusing, as it refers to Travelcards a few times - so it seemed (at first) like the operator had just left the SPT Travelcard scheme. But it then becomes clearer that it's a dispute over payments.

The final article makes it clear that Transport Scotland served notice that the operator must accept the SNEC.

 

[Stan Drews]

At the risk of repeating myself, .....the Parks Strathaven - Glasgow commuter service is NOT a registered local bus service. If you go on the Parks website the concession fare comes up as £4 single, so presumably it does not meet the Transport Scotland criteria to qualify as a "long distance scheduled bus service". However if you go to the megabus site and try to book a Glasgow - Aberdeen as a concessionary card holder it will come as £0.00, as they are part of the scheme, even although they too are not registered as local bus services.

Registered local bus services must have regular stops which allow passengers to make journeys of less than 15 miles.

 

[transmanche]

Registered local bus services must have regular stops which allow passengers to make journeys of less than 15 miles.

And at the risk of repeating myself, I don't see how this is relevant - being as the Scottish scheme includes long-distance as well as local buses...

 

[overthewater]

And at the risk of repeating myself, I don't see how this is relevant - being as the Scottish scheme includes long-distance as well as local buses...

Glasgow - Edinburgh Airport is long distance but does not take the cards.



Concessionary Travel and Integrated Ticketing Unit
Transport Scotland
Tel: 0141 272 7170
Email: [email protected]

 

[transmanche]

Glasgow - Edinburgh Airport is long distance but does not take the cards.

Mentioned back in post #6. I think a case could be made for CityLinkAir being a 'premium' service.

 

[overthewater]

Mentioned back in post #6. I think a case could be made for CityLinkAir being a 'premium' service.

So could Service 54, It operate NON stop between Glasgow and Stonehouse

 

[transmanche]

Mentioned back in post #6. I think a case could be made for CityLinkAir being a 'premium' service.

So could Service 54, It operate NON stop between Glasgow and Stonehouse

Jolly good. But irrelevant.

Glasgow to Edinburgh on Citylink is £10.40 standard return. Glasgow to Edinburgh Airport on CitylinkAir is £16 standard return. So it looks to me that the airport service is a 'premium fare' service.

 

[Stan Drews]

Well it's clearly not part of the scheme, and Parks obviously aren't getting any concessionary reimbursement from Transport Scotland.

However you feel free to continue debating the point, although a phone call to the operator/TS would perhaps have been easier!

 

[transmanche]

Well it's clearly not part of the scheme, and Parks obviously aren't getting any concessionary reimbursement from Transport Scotland.

That's not obvious at all.

However you feel free to continue debating the point, although a phone call to the operator/TS would perhaps have been easier!

I don't think there's anybody questioning what they're actually doing. Just whether or not what they're doing is correct.