Condition of some Scotrail stock (158s in particular)

[Clansman]

This week I've been on a fair share of Scotrail 158s, and I have to say the state of some is appalling. Aside from the Haymarket units which are long due refurbishment, how come some of the units cascaded from England a few years ago have never been done, even by previous operator First? Unit 789 has probably got to be the worst. The interior has tell tale shades of 5 operators and is falling apart: SWT seat coverings on the flip down seats and on the ex first class seats, first class seats from NSE, SPT Rail cushion on 1 of the seats, Arriva Trains Wales standard class seat coverings (which for some reason replaced the SWT seat coverings and bases) and Scotrail Saltire flooring. It is clearly evident that this unit has been partially refurbished due to the new floor covering but why not everything else?
Second place is probably unit 870 which has Alphaline seat bases and old square style buttons as well as interior colours (pink and purple). Also National Express Scotrail seat/floor coverings.

The Class 320s, which also didn't receive much interior work, need an overhaul haul as well along with the original batch of Class 170s in the same situation.

My only guess as to why these units haven't been refurbished is that they are the ones going off-lease in 2018.

 

[Carntyne]

40 of the 48 158 units are being refurbished (12 done so far I think).

The 170 fleet has begun it's refurbishment. Must be a few of them out now.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I havnt had the pleasure of refurbed anything yet. What are the 170s having done?

 

[43096]

This week I've been on a fair share of Scotrail 158s, and I have to say the state of some is appalling. Aside from the Haymarket units which are long due refurbishment, how come some of the units cascaded from England a few years ago have never been done, even by previous operator First? Unit 789 has probably got to be the worst. The interior has tell tale shades of 5 operators and is falling apart: SWT seat coverings on the flip down seats and on the ex first class seats, first class seats from NSE, SPT Rail cushion on 1 of the seats, Arriva Trains Wales standard class seat coverings (which for some reason replaced the SWT seat coverings and bases) and Scotrail Saltire flooring. It is clearly evident that this unit has been partially refurbished due to the new floor covering but why not everything else?

Second place is probably unit 870 which has Alphaline seat bases and old square style buttons as well as interior colours (pink and purple). Also National Express Scotrail seat/floor coverings.



The Class 320s, which also didn't receive much interior work, need an overhaul haul as well along with the original batch of Class 170s in the same situation.



My only guess as to why these units haven't been refurbished is that they are the ones going off-lease in 2018.

With the 158s, units 701-736/738-741 stay with ScotRail and are being refurbished currently. Sets 782/786/789/867-871 are the 8 being off-leased and transferred to Northern.

 

[scotraildriver]

170401-404 are done, 405 in works just now. New seat covers, carpets, sockets at every seat in standard, new CCTV , toilet refurb. The reason the already refurbished Inverness 158's are being refurbished again first is because they get a C4 mechanical overhaul at the same time. So although the Haymarket 158's are in dire need of internal attention the Inverness ones need their mechanical overhauls first, so are done in this order. 158867-871, 782,786,789 were never touched as they were on a short lease initally - they werent even to get a repaint. Then the lease was extended twice more but they are still not long term stayers so no work will be done. If it had been known at the start they would be here 10 years they would have had work done although they did get their cabs refurbished and the air con system replaced.

 

[me123]

I have to agree that the 320 refurbishment was pretty poor. It was an extensive overhaul, with upgrades to the running speed, a relivery and installation of a toilet. I cannot fathom why they didn't complete the job, and just finish things off. At present, the trains look refreshed on the outside with the blue satire livery, but step inside and there's been no change. It's still got the green SPT seats and very worn interior. With the exception of the carriage with the toilet - that's got some new style seating with the Scotrail moquette, but is otherwise untouched. It's a mess.

The 158s are being done, as has been said.

 

[Clansman]

I havnt had the pleasure of refurbed anything yet. What are the 170s having done?

170s are getting a full strip. New seat and floor coverings, refurbished toilets etc. Not sure why the original 1999-2000 batch have only been done on the outside though.

 

[fgwrich]

So although the Haymarket 158's are in dire need of internal attention the Inverness ones need their mechanical overhauls first, so are done in this order. 158867-871, 782,786,789 were never touched as they were on a short lease initally - they werent even to get a repaint. Then the lease was extended twice more but they are still not long term stayers so no work will be done. If it had been known at the start they would be here 10 years they would have had work done although they did get their cabs refurbished and the air con system replaced.

Just to add to this, most of them ran in their respective liveries for a good few years - 2010 Saw the ex Wessex units still running around in Alphaline Silver with Maroon doors and First ScotRail sticker placed on the side. The ex SWT Units, as they were subleased at the time from Northern Rail along with the rest of the Haymarket 8, were repainted during overhauls by Northern Rail at Neville Hill depot into base purple livery with neither TOC Branding until the leases were made permanent and the 8 units transferred to ScotRail where they were then repainted again at Springburn into ScotRail's new livery.

All in all, 158789 Must be the 47832 of 158s - It's carried Regional Railways, Central, South West Trains, Northern Rail purple and ScotRail all within it's 20 year life span.

However, I'm rather puzzled by the interior choices of SCR over the Haymarket 8, with some receiving ex National Express ScotRail seat covers, others ex ATW. And new carpet.

 

[Clansman]

If it had been known at the start they would be here 10 years they would have had work done although they did get their cabs refurbished and the air con system replaced.

Do you know why the SWT standard class seats were replaced with the ATW on unit 789 if the units didn't have any major work done?

Proper First Class seating on 158789 (Former SWT unit?)

 

[fgwrich]

Do you know why the SWT standard class seats were replaced with the ATW on unit 789 if the units didn't have any major work done?

At a guess, Maintenance spares? Plenty of them coming out of the ATW units at the time, and possibly in better condition than the original BR Seats found in 786/789 previously?

The interior of those two is a right mishmash - SWT didn't do that much to them other than new carpet and seat covers, so you can still see the old Reggie Rail two tone stripes on the overhead luggage racks. That said, the ex NX condition units are still the same. Perhaps the most surprising feature is that they still retain the ex SWT First Class section, with SWT FC Moquette.

 

[Clansman]

At a guess, Maintenance spares? Plenty of them coming out of the ATW units at the time, and possibly in better condition than the original BR Seats found in 786/789 previously?

The interior of those two is a right mishmash - SWT didn't do that much to them other than new carpet and seat covers, so you can still see the old Reggie Rail two tone stripes on the overhead luggage racks. That said, the ex NX condition units are still the same. Perhaps the most surprising feature is that they still retain the ex SWT First Class section, with SWT FC Moquette.

If I remember rightly, when 789 was brought up to Scotland it was used a lot on Inverness services in conjunction with the 170s so there was probably no need to remove the first class section. The unit was up in Inverness 2 weeks ago so maybe it allows for flexibility? May 789 forever be kept off Express journeys.

The base for the Arriva seats are the same as those used on the 170s so I don't know if that's got anything to do with it.
Looks like I could add RR to the list of operators to be currently engraved in 789 - within you can see 6 now! The vestibules don't make for a nice sight either.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Il be honest Id rather have one of the above 8 than one of the native NX refurbished ones which were good when first done but are now shocking.

Thanks for the info on 170s, was rather hoping theyd be reseated with something decent but are well. Are the 170 toilets just being repainted and new flooring?

 

[Clansman]

Il be honest Id rather have one of the above 8 than one of the native NX refurbished ones which were good when first done but are now shocking.

Thanks for the info on 170s, was rather hoping theyd be reseated with something decent but are well. Are the 170 toilets just being repainted and new flooring?

The toilets received new tanks I believe, and the entire cabin stuck all over with cartoon depiction of a real bathroom.

 

[LowLevel]

The unrefurbed 158s, both those from the English batch and the ones with Richmond seating, are a disgrace - they smell of damp and mould and the carpets look like they haven't seen a hoover in years. There's being tired and there's being filthy - all the old rubbish stuck to the floor under the seats suggests cleaning leaves much to be desired. Our stock was refurbed up to 8 years ago but regularly hoovering etc takes place and it helps it stay in reasonable nick.

 

[Clansman]

The unrefurbed 158s, both those from the English batch and the ones with Richmond seating, are a disgrace - they smell of damp and mould and the carpets look like they haven't seen a hoover in years. There's being tired and there's being filthy - all the old rubbish stuck to the floor under the seats suggests cleaning leaves much to be desired. Our stock was refurbed up to 8 years ago but regularly hoovering etc takes place and it helps it stay in reasonable nick.

I agree, the cascaded ones have been badly neglected. Made even worse by mashing up the interiors to form a 2 coach "Where's the TOC"? (158789). Where did the English cascades originate? I know there was 2 SWT (786/789) and a least 2 Alphaline (1588xx)

 

[47271]

I posted this in another thread the other day, but I had a pleasant surprise a month or so ago on 158726. My heart sank when yet another clapped out Haymarket unit pulled up. It took me a few minutes to realise that I wasn't as uncomfortable as usual - no lumps and edges in the bottom cushion as normal.

It must've got so bad that they'd replaced all of the cushions in old National Express material - they were obviously brand new when I looked along the coach.

Everything else was as wretched as usual.

The power points in the refurbed 170s are much appreciated, shame about the USB only charging in the redone 158s.

 

[LowLevel]

I agree, the cascaded ones have been badly neglected. Made even worse by mashing up the interiors to form a 2 coach "Where's the TOC"? (158789). Where did the English cascades originate? I know there was 2 SWT (786/789) and a least 2 Alphaline (1588xx)

782/786/789 were originally with Central Trains. 782 went to Wessex Trains along with a few other units as a sort of internal cascade once the 350/1s and Midland Mainline 170s appeared. 786 and 789 were cascaded from Central to South West Trains and were sent to ScotRail as I believe they were owned by a different ROSCO to the rest of the fleet once the TPE units became available.

The rest were also from Wessex having originally been Wales and West units and were originally destined for Northern. They instead hung around much longer in Scotland and I assume for the whole fleet the interiors have been cobbled together to repair the most broken parts.

 

[Clansman]

I posted this in another thread the other day, but I had a pleasant surprise a month or so ago on 158726. My heart sank when yet another clapped out Haymarket unit pulled up. It took me a few minutes to realise that I wasn't as uncomfortable as usual - no lumps and edges in the bottom cushion as normal.

It must've got so bad that they'd replaced all of the cushions in old National Express material - they were obviously brand new when I looked along the coach.

Everything else was as wretched as usual.

The power points in the refurbed 170s are much appreciated, shame about the USB only charging in the redone 158s.

There's one unit which is the most refurbished out of all English cascades. I'm not sure of the exact number but the interior had new Saltire floor and seat coverings, but the seats were the old style ones with the blue handle above (same type as seen in screenshot in page 1). It didn't have anything else major done so I wonder why that unit was the only one to get the strip, but not fully?

The unit is featured in an Abellio Scotrail poster, although I can't find it. It shows a passenger sitting on the train as it crosses the Forth Rail Bridge.

 

[JohnR]

Are there any thoughts on doing anything with the 170s that will remain after the HSTs arrive? Their interior layout isnt suited - they really need more cycle accomodation, for instance.

 

[Clansman]

Are there any thoughts on doing anything with the 170s that will remain after the HSTs arrive? Their interior layout isn't suited - they really need more cycle accommodation, for instance.

They will be displaced on Intercity duties. They will take over local services already in place such as Perth/Dundee to Edinburgh/Glasgow, and the Fife Circle. The retention of 13 units means that they will also pave way for new stopping routes which will compliment the HST and free up the need for HSTs to call at intermediate stations as often as Intercity services do currently. The Class 170s, in conjunction with the remaining Class 158s in the central belt (aside from both Highland Lines) from 2018 will service on the following routes in total:

-Edinburgh to Perth/Dundee
-Edinburgh to (Fife Circle)
-Edinburgh to Tweedbank
-Glasgow QS to Perth/Dundee
-Glasgow QS to Anniesland (also in conjunction with Class 156s)
-Perth to Arbroath (All stops)
-Montrose to Inverurie/Insch (All stops)
-Kingussie to Elgin (All stops)

On the cycling side of things the HSTs will cater for and provide more bike space than the Class 170s. Once demoted to (the better suited overall) suburban and commuter duties, the Class 170s will probably no longer require more than 1 bike space, which would definitely not be the case if they were still working Intercity routes beyond 2018 (thankfully they're not).

 

[scotraildriver]

there's one unit which is the most refurbished out of all english cascades. I'm not sure of the exact number but the interior had new saltire floor and seat coverings, but the seats were the old style ones with the blue handle above (same type as seen in screenshot in page 1). It didn't have anything else major done so i wonder why that unit was the only one to get the strip, but not fully?

The unit is featured in an abellio scotrail poster, although i can't find it. It shows a passenger sitting on the train as it crosses the forth rail bridge.

158782

 

[Haig paxton]

I like the 158s that have the automated safety announcement from their previous lives. I've also heard "welcome aboard this Alphaline Wales and Borders service, shortly the Guard will carry out a full ticket check" etc etc.

 

[Clansman]

I like the 158s that have the automated safety announcement from their previous lives. I've also heard "welcome aboard this Alphaline Wales and Borders service, shortly the Guard will carry out a full ticket check" etc etc.

Heard that a good few times now. You would of thought Scotrail would take advantage and install their own one.

 

[SC318250]

Is it still planned for 158s for Fort William/Mallaig and Oban? Or is this to remain 156s?

 

[northwichcat]

170s are getting a full strip. New seat and floor coverings, refurbished toilets etc. Not sure why the original 1999-2000 batch have only been done on the outside though.

16 x 170s are being transferred to Northern in 2018 so I doubt Scotrail will be doing anything major to them.

 

[47271]

16 x 170s are being transferred to Northern in 2018 so I doubt Scotrail will be doing anything major to them.

They really will be very grubby by that time. I hope Northern are planning to gut them straight away or their 'new trains' will be a big disappointment.

 

[Mordac]

Is it still planned for 158s for Fort William/Mallaig and Oban? Or is this to remain 156s?

Still to have 'scenic' 158s I believe.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They really will be very grubby by that time. I hope Northern are planning to gut them straight away or their 'new trains' will be a big disappointment.

Last time they said anything about it all new trains were to have a full treatment. I guess we'll see later this year when the 12 319s arrive from Thameslink exactly what this will involve.

 

[Clansman]

16 x 170s are being transferred to Northern in 2018 so I doubt Scotrail will be doing anything major to them.

But does the 16 units (+ any being released) equate to the number of 1999-2004 units - excluding the 2 that went to Southern? The only units that have been refurbished interiorly are the ones that had additional first class' put into them and the former SPT, Hull Trains units and a couple of other Scotrail oneas. I'm going to assume that that's why the seat bases are the same as that in Standard Class aside from the recliner - I can't imagine Scotrail would replace the larger seats with the smaller. But that doesn't explain why theres already 1999-2004 units in Saltire livery that haven't had an interior change. Are all the outcasts getting "Saltired" before 2018?

 

[47271]

Aren't the original lot the ones that are getting sorted out properly now? You can tell them apart inside from the earlier Saltire interiors since they have power points (at last) in Standard.

I'm not that great with taking down numbers but I'm sure than I've been on 401 and 402 recently and they've both been done and don't look like they'll be leaving Scotland for quite some time.

 

[Clansman]

Aren't the original lot the ones that are getting sorted out properly now? You can tell them apart inside from the earlier Saltire interiors since they have power points (at last) in Standard.

I'm not that great with taking down numbers but I'm sure than I've been on 401 and 402 recently and they've both been done and don't look like they'll be leaving Scotland for quite some time.

Are you mistaking the socketed units for the former Hull Trains ones? Although I think they are 170/3s?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Aren't the original lot the ones that are getting sorted out properly now? You can tell them apart inside from the earlier Saltire interiors since they have power points (at last) in Standard.

I'm not that great with taking down numbers but I'm sure than I've been on 401 and 402 recently and they've both been done and don't look like they'll be leaving Scotland for quite some time.

The original units are the ones with the yellow ring above the interior door controls and have the open/close buttons the other way around, have 2 sets of 3 headlights (opposed to the ringed pair of 2). The original ones also don't have the light up door sensors between coaches and in first class and have squared W/C illuminates as opposed to the circular ones.