Conductor Job - What is it like?

[Ciel]

I always like to know some poor sod is worse of than I am.

We go by a set of regulations called "Hidden" (not secret, that was the blokes name). These define our working hours, perhaps the most important part of this is a minimum 12 hours between shifts or "jobs".

Picking a fairly standard week for me my shifts would go something like this:

Sunday: Rest Day
Monday: 0454-1008 (Best job in the depot!)
Tuesday: 0434-1002 (Second best job in the depot!)
Wednesday: 0540-1336
Thursday: 0450-1328

4 Days rest then back in at 0845, finishing that set of work 5 days later at 2222.

So you see the days progress round earlies into lates then back into earlies. Or at least for me. Start/Finish times vary nationwide and are depot specific.

You will work trains not many people know exist they're so early/late. You will often ponder the existence of said trains yourself, then you will remember you're getting paid to sit there and all will be ok!

So for early shifts, it's 4 days on, then 4 days off. For later shifts would be the same? 4 days on then 4 days off?

If so, that shift pattern is brilliant!

 

[TheEdge]

So for early shifts, it's 4 days on, then 4 days off. For later shifts would be the same? 4 days on then 4 days off?

If so, that shift pattern is brilliant!

Not all weeks are like that, mine this week is.

Sunday: Rest Day
Monday: Rest Day
Tuesday: 0450-1232
Wednesday: 0415-1248
Thursday: 0415-1152
Friday: 0415-1115
Saturday: 0438-1138

And it all varies by depot, some places have shorter weeks but much longer diagrams, adversely some places have longer weeks and shorter diagrams.

 

[grumblingalong]

So for early shifts, it's 4 days on, then 4 days off. For later shifts would be the same? 4 days on then 4 days off?

If so, that shift pattern is brilliant!

As the edge said that's not always the case, sometimes 4 on 4 off, sometimes 8 on 5 off, 6 on 2 off, anything really, sometimes great sometimes rubbish!

 

[MartinG]

As the edge said that's not always the case, sometimes 4 on 4 off, sometimes 8 on 5 off, 6 on 2 off, anything really, sometimes great sometimes rubbish!

Sometimes 3 on then 9 off - you'll not be doing 9 to 5, you'll be working with the public as tired and exacting early morning commuters and tired and over emotional late night travellers. If you're confrontational or have to win, then back off now. If you can cope with the public, follow rules and regulations, help sort out mechanical faults, deal with emergencies and multi task - then you'll be OK.

 

[jay3562]

I really enjoyed the years I spent as a guard/conductor

The pros -
The pay + commission plus overtime and sundays at the toc I worked at meant you could come out with 30k easily for not a lot of work

Assuming you do your job properly , dont take any risks safety wise , offer the best customer service you can you wont get hassled by your manager . 1st 2 years you will be assessed more often , but after that I only used to see my manager for a ride out every 6 months . and a full summary rules assesment every 2 years , sometimes it wasnt even my manager who did the rideouts it was a suitably qualified instructor or another manager .

That feeling you get when you do something really simply but it makes a passengers day , there where numerous occassions when id return someones wallet and they would be so thankful .

Colleagues , you will find a real mix of people , on my guards course there was 2 ex coppers , an ex teacher , 2 ex shop workers , an ex civil engineer and a civil servant . At my depot there was a real mix of old and young , men and women , people who had been railway for life and people who had done a range of other jobs . Despite the numerous backgrounds everyone got on .

Time off , guards at my place still have a decent shift pattern meaning every 3 weeks they have a 5 day weekend with Fri , Sat , Sun ,Mon and Tue as rest days . All Sundays are also optional and extra pay for guards . Guards at my place are also on 4 day weeks so their 28 days of holidays actually goes very far

guranteed your 12 hours between shifts which I value so much after doing jobs where I was rostered 7 and 8 hours between days

One massive pro to being a guard is if you are having a crap day , or some customer has just given you abuse or you dont feel too good you can retreat to the back cab and sit there relaxing for 5 minutes . I dont advocate confining yourself to the back cab and depending on TOC you wont be able too anyway because of revenue targets but it is there for those rare occassions , wheras drivers have to be concentrating and in work mode the whole time the train is moving .

Cons -

The shifts , Getting up for an 04:08 start on a monday when you finished at 23:58 the saturday night is hard . Getting up one week for a 03:45 when the last week you might have just gone to bed that time can take its toll on you , I personally used to prefer the mega earlies like 04:00 starts because you usually finished at about 11:45 at the latest . Also driving in to work at that time is bliss . once you are in the role and fully productive in a link you might be better placed to find a partner to swap with so you do continuous earlies . I did this for a number of years after my son was born to allow me some stability in my family life . Be warned though permanent mega earlies really does turn you weird .

Another big con is fact that you have annual leave planned for you , because everybody would want it at the same time the LDC draw up a holiday planner and most of your leave is planned for you , you have to save days for christmas and boxing day as well if you are booked to work them . You are entitled to cancel your allocated leave and book your own however that is a lot easier said than done , you usually end up with all of the guards with kids swapping their summer leave with guards who dont have kids or whose kids have flown the nest .

The biggest con is when the job goes to pot and you are stuck in the middle of nowhere on a train whose aircon relies on the engines that have failed . And you are sealed inside of a train with a load of drunk football fans who have no understanding of how dangerous it is for them to open the doors and walk back to a station . You will come accross awkward passengers . Ones who didnt want to pay or tried to hide in toilets I left to it most of the time . My toc policy was to avoid confrontation so I did just that , if they where a persistant offender I would put a report in .

Another con is having to have your own transport because in many cases your journey to or from work will be after public transport is running . We used to have a job as a guard as well which brought me on empty stock past the train station I live about 150m away from all the way back to my depot . I then had to get in my car and drive nearly 20 miles back to my house

With regards to job security . I would not worry about that too much depending on the TOC . Some tocs have no interest in replacing guards , even the TOC's it has been announced at like Northern have got a long way to go yet . The devil with these things is in the detail . Even if it was announced today that a particular route was going DOO it would take years for the first DOO service to run over it . There are countless risk assessments , operational plans and methods of work that need to be drawn up first . Not to mention the inevitable industrial dispute involving both guards who dont want to loose their jobs , and drivers who dont want to drive trains without guards and dont want to take responsibility for doors and even if they do concede to it they want a lot of extra money .

with regards to shift patterns they depend really on TOC and depot . Although when I was a guard I signed a contract that gave my TOC the right to give us jobs 24/7 I never did have any nightwork in depots I was at although it is not unheard of . The shifts I did and that guards at the depot I am at are like this

Earlies - 04:00 starts with 10:00 - 11:45 finishes
Later Earliers 06:00-08:00 starts with 14:00-16:00 finishes
Middles 09:30 to 11:30 starts with 18:30-20:30 finishes
Lates 12:00 to 13:45 starts with 21:00-22:45 finishes
late lates 15:45 to 16:45 starts with finishes past midnight , latest about 01:20

 

[tony6499]

that's far too much of a sweeping generalisation for me!.........one slip of the tongue and DOO mentioned and everyone panics and says the conductor grade isn't secure!

some toc's still see the conductor grade as pivotal and wouldn't dream of getting rid!......besides three quarters of the network is light years away from being able to cater DOO!.

always in the wrong?? i did 7 years as a guard and that certainly wasn't the case at all!..........in fact i would say it's completely the opposite of that.......i find it more like do your job right and you're left alone!........stick your head above the parapet and take risks whether that be safety of poor customer service and you make a rod for your own back!

it's still a great job and one i'd recommend to anyone!.........i passed out as a driver 2 months ago and i know i wouldn't be where i am without the conductor job!.

I did 34 years as a Guard and a Conductor before retiring last year so I'd like to think I have a bit of a clue about the way the job has got worse over the years and the harder it has become to satisfy everyone

 

[Ciel]

I really enjoyed the years I spent as a guard/conductor

The pros -
The pay + commission plus overtime and sundays at the toc I worked at meant you could come out with 30k easily for not a lot of work

Assuming you do your job properly , dont take any risks safety wise , offer the best customer service you can you wont get hassled by your manager . 1st 2 years you will be assessed more often , but after that I only used to see my manager for a ride out every 6 months . and a full summary rules assesment every 2 years , sometimes it wasnt even my manager who did the rideouts it was a suitably qualified instructor or another manager .

That feeling you get when you do something really simply but it makes a passengers day , there where numerous occassions when id return someones wallet and they would be so thankful .

Colleagues , you will find a real mix of people , on my guards course there was 2 ex coppers , an ex teacher , 2 ex shop workers , an ex civil engineer and a civil servant . At my depot there was a real mix of old and young , men and women , people who had been railway for life and people who had done a range of other jobs . Despite the numerous backgrounds everyone got on .

Time off , guards at my place still have a decent shift pattern meaning every 3 weeks they have a 5 day weekend with Fri , Sat , Sun ,Mon and Tue as rest days . All Sundays are also optional and extra pay for guards . Guards at my place are also on 4 day weeks so their 28 days of holidays actually goes very far

guranteed your 12 hours between shifts which I value so much after doing jobs where I was rostered 7 and 8 hours between days

One massive pro to being a guard is if you are having a crap day , or some customer has just given you abuse or you dont feel too good you can retreat to the back cab and sit there relaxing for 5 minutes . I dont advocate confining yourself to the back cab and depending on TOC you wont be able too anyway because of revenue targets but it is there for those rare occassions , wheras drivers have to be concentrating and in work mode the whole time the train is moving .

Cons -

The shifts , Getting up for an 04:08 start on a monday when you finished at 23:58 the saturday night is hard . Getting up one week for a 03:45 when the last week you might have just gone to bed that time can take its toll on you , I personally used to prefer the mega earlies like 04:00 starts because you usually finished at about 11:45 at the latest . Also driving in to work at that time is bliss . once you are in the role and fully productive in a link you might be better placed to find a partner to swap with so you do continuous earlies . I did this for a number of years after my son was born to allow me some stability in my family life . Be warned though permanent mega earlies really does turn you weird .

Another big con is fact that you have annual leave planned for you , because everybody would want it at the same time the LDC draw up a holiday planner and most of your leave is planned for you , you have to save days for christmas and boxing day as well if you are booked to work them . You are entitled to cancel your allocated leave and book your own however that is a lot easier said than done , you usually end up with all of the guards with kids swapping their summer leave with guards who dont have kids or whose kids have flown the nest .

The biggest con is when the job goes to pot and you are stuck in the middle of nowhere on a train whose aircon relies on the engines that have failed . And you are sealed inside of a train with a load of drunk football fans who have no understanding of how dangerous it is for them to open the doors and walk back to a station . You will come accross awkward passengers . Ones who didnt want to pay or tried to hide in toilets I left to it most of the time . My toc policy was to avoid confrontation so I did just that , if they where a persistant offender I would put a report in .

Another con is having to have your own transport because in many cases your journey to or from work will be after public transport is running . We used to have a job as a guard as well which brought me on empty stock past the train station I live about 150m away from all the way back to my depot . I then had to get in my car and drive nearly 20 miles back to my house

With regards to job security . I would not worry about that too much depending on the TOC . Some tocs have no interest in replacing guards , even the TOC's it has been announced at like Northern have got a long way to go yet . The devil with these things is in the detail . Even if it was announced today that a particular route was going DOO it would take years for the first DOO service to run over it . There are countless risk assessments , operational plans and methods of work that need to be drawn up first . Not to mention the inevitable industrial dispute involving both guards who dont want to loose their jobs , and drivers who dont want to drive trains without guards and dont want to take responsibility for doors and even if they do concede to it they want a lot of extra money .

with regards to shift patterns they depend really on TOC and depot . Although when I was a guard I signed a contract that gave my TOC the right to give us jobs 24/7 I never did have any nightwork in depots I was at although it is not unheard of . The shifts I did and that guards at the depot I am at are like this

Earlies - 04:00 starts with 10:00 - 11:45 finishes
Later Earliers 06:00-08:00 starts with 14:00-16:00 finishes
Middles 09:30 to 11:30 starts with 18:30-20:30 finishes
Lates 12:00 to 13:45 starts with 21:00-22:45 finishes
late lates 15:45 to 16:45 starts with finishes past midnight , latest about 01:20

Hey, I just wanted to say thank you for writing this post. It was exactly what I was looking for!

It sounds like a great job, to be honest. The times you've mentioned (especially the earlies) seem like they can be a real drag, but what customer service role isn't?

Thanks again.

 

[red2005]

I did 34 years as a Guard and a Conductor before retiring last year so I'd like to think I have a bit of a clue about the way the job has got worse over the years and the harder it has become to satisfy everyone

well the first mistake there is the fact that you seem to have taken to heart that your attempts to satisfy/please everyone may have fallen short at times!......it's absolutely impossible to please everyone whether it's 1970 or 2015!.....some people will simply go out of their way to make life difficult for you no matter what you do!......the only people i see struggle in our industry are the ones that take that kind of behaviour personally!

Granted times have changed and there are a lot more throbbers/idiots using the railway than ever before and respect went out of the window years ago but does that really make it a position that isn't secure or a bad job???......i don't think it does and the sheer numbers applying for it pretty much say the same thing.

don't get me wrong i was glad to get out of the grade after as little time as 7 years (in comparison to your long career) but i am far from a people person (by my own admission) and (kind of selfishly i admit) used the position as a means to an end to get my driving job!......i do believe though for the right character it is an amazing job!

yes there were times when i felt like jacking it in after a bad shift where i had some kind of abuse or when management had made some form of ridiculous decision but when i had those thoughts creeping into my head i also reminded myself that i was there for a purpose and also that i had actually worked out there in the "real world" before joining the railway and it was still a really good job to have in comparison!........to those who think otherwise i'd suggest try a 12 hour day hod carrying on a building site for £6 an hour and then time yourself on how quick you run back!

no one said that you haven't seen a lot of changes over your time in the industry!.....after 34 years that's bound to happen..........afterall you've gone from an era where a driver could have a pint whilst awaiting signal to a time where you have to be careful what you take for a headache!.........my point was that generalising about always being in the wrong etc was far too sweeping as that's definitely not the case for everyone!........i was saying from my time in the industry the companies i've worked for have never been more receptive to criticism from their staff and have generally looked favourably on those who hold their own hands up after they have made a mistake!.

there are still LOADS of improvements that need to be made in the industry (as there are in most) from top to bottom it's far from perfect or a paradise but the positives in my opinion do outweigh the negatives!...... is it a bad industry?? is it one that isn't secure?? ..........is it eck!.........it's one that may not be for everyone granted but there is far FAR worse out there!......just my opinion obviously!

if i was to have one main criticism about the industry......operational grades i've worked in obviously........it would be the gossip,backstabbing and generall snideyness (if that's how you spell it) of some people.......some are more interested in what others are booked to do than they are in their own work!.....but i've no time for them anyway and they don't stop the money going in the bank every 4 weeks!

 

[tony6499]

well the first mistake there is the fact that you've tried or attempted to satisfy/please everyone!......that's absolutely impossible whether it's 1970 or 2015!.....some people will simply go out of their way to make life difficult for you no matter what you do!......the only people i see struggle in our industry are the ones that take that kind of behaviour personally!

Granted times have changed and there are a lot more throbbers/idiots using the railway than ever before and respect went out of the window years ago but does that really make it a position that isn't secure or a bad job???......i don't think it does and the sheer numbers applying for it pretty much say the same thing.

don't get me wrong i was glad to get out of the grade after as little time as 7 years (in comparison to your long career) but i am far from a people person and (kind of selfishly i admit) used the position as a means to an end to get my driving job!......i do believe though for the right character it is an amazing job!

yes there were times when i felt like jacking it in after a bad shift where i had some kind of abuse or when management had made some form of ridiculous decision but when i had those thoughts creeping into my head i also reminded myself that i was there for a purpose and also that i had actually worked out there in the "real world" before joining the railway and it was still a really good job to have in comparison!

no one said that you haven't seen a lot of changes over your time in the industry!.....after 34 years that's bound to happen.....my point was that generalising about always being in the wrong etc was far too sweeping as that's definitely not the case for everyone!........i was saying from my time in the industry the companies i've worked for have never been more receptive to criticism from their staff and have generally looked favourably on those who hold their own hands up after they have made a mistake!

You forget the most important thing, everything depends on what TOC you work for and if they value the role of the Conductor or not and that would be the first thing I found out before I considered a job with them.

And of course you always get people who have been on the job 5 minutes and think they know everything

 

[red2005]

i was saying from my time in the industry the companies i've worked for have never been more receptive to criticism from their staff and have generally looked favourably on those who hold their own hands up after they have made a mistake!.


read the above and you'll see i was talking specifically about my own experiences and companies I!! had worked for so i'd actually not forgotten anything!

you also get the types who wouldn't know a good thing if it smacked them in the face and instead of looking for something else they just sit there in the mess room moaning about how bad they've got it lol......oh my there are a few of those!

and the fact you are saying that it's now TOC specific does in fact prove that your initial post was far to much of a sweeping generalisation and was not based on any facts

 

[Flamingo]

Assuming you do your job properly , dont take any risks safety wise , offer the best customer service you can you will always find somebody to put in a good word for you at your disciplinary hearing .

Fixed that for you

 

[tony6499]

i was saying from my time in the industry the companies i've worked for have never been more receptive to criticism from their staff and have generally looked favourably on those who hold their own hands up after they have made a mistake!.


read the above and you'll see i was talking specifically about my own experiences and companies I!! had worked for so i'd actually not forgotten anything!

you also get the types who wouldn't know a good thing if it smacked them in the face and instead of looking for something else they just sit there in the mess room moaning about how bad they've got it lol......oh my there are a few of those!

and the fact you are saying that it's now TOC specific does in fact prove that your initial post was far to much of a sweeping generalisation and was not based on any facts

As are your 'facts' as they are simply based on your own experiences and that as you say you simply used the Conductor job as a way up front says what you thought of the job from the start

 

[red2005]

As are your 'facts' as they are simply based on your own experiences and that as you say you simply used the Conductor job as a way up front says what you thought of the job from the start

i have never given any facts and stated from the start it was only my opinion which is all i can give!??

well seeing as you do seem to know it all about everything and everybody why don't you tell me what i thought of the job from the start???

the only thoughts i could give at the start were based on the research i had done on the role!..so i formed my own opinions......i certainly didn't listen to the doom mongers too much as listening to people like that would have simply had me thinking like........well like you to be honest!........which would be the last thing i'd want!

just because i had a certain career path in mind doesn't mean i had bad thoughts on the job at all!.........i got into the grade to aid me in getting more safety critical experience than what i had.....to get a closer look at what the drivers job was like close up.......and to get extra customer service experience!..........are you trying to say because i adopted that approach i am somehow in the wrong? or that i hated the job?

couldn't be more wrong! i was very satisfied in my job gave 100% and knew how many others wanted it so knew how lucky i was.......however from working alongside drivers it just strengthened my desire to do the job!.........i'd choose another skillset mate as mind reading is not your thing.

 

[scott118]

perhaps, Tony didn't make the cut for being a driver, so perhaps that's the reason, for the bitterest pill...

 

[red2005]

certainly sounds like a bitter mate!.......if it was THAT bad you certainly don't do 34 years!!!! lol

 

[the sniper]

perhaps, Tony didn't make the cut for being a driver, so perhaps that's the reason, for the bitterest pill...

This is getting ridiculous now... What a silly little comment. How does what he said indicate that?

To an extent I agree with everything he's said... I don't understand why you're both trying to undermine him and his opinion with snide comments.

 

[red2005]

This is getting ridiculous now... What a silly little comment. How does what he said indicate that?

To an extent I agree with everything he's said... I don't understand why you're both trying to undermine him and his opinion with snide comments.

no undermining here! just a difference in opinion!

and it's obvious he does seem very bitter towards the industry! it's an observation not a criticism!......if he wanted to spend 34 years being bitter and hating the job that's his problem!

 

[scott118]

I'm not making any snide comments - they are here for anyone to respond to, as you have done so. There are lots of guards who fail the driver assessment. There is nothing uncommon in that. Maybe he was simply happy just bumbling along as a guard, not wishing to 'progress' to being a driver. For those who choose to see the guards role as a stepping stone, to becoming a driver, and openly admit that, then why, should they be pulled up on their own personal comments? Good on them for being so honest i say.. A drivers role is very different from a guard, as i've previously mentioned, either here or in another post. Forum posts can be read in so many different ways, which is why, it makes them 'interesting'.....

 

[red2005]

I'm not making any snide comments - they are here for anyone to respond to, as you have done so. There are lots of guards who fail the driver assessment. There is nothing uncommon in that. Maybe he was simply happy just bumbling along as a guard, not wishing to 'progress' to being a driver. For those who choose to see the guards role as a stepping stone, to becoming a driver, and openly admit that, then why, should they be pulled up their own personal comments? Good on them for being so honest i say.. A drivers role is very different from a guard, as i've previously mentioned, either here or in another post. Forum posts can be read in so many different ways, which is why, it makes them 'interesting'.....[/QU

well said mate!

 

[Flamingo]

I'm a Guard, I would not consider applying for a Drivers job. Not because I consider it a role that I would not "progress" to, but because it is an entirely different job I would not like.

I know all drivers think that everybody else working on the railway wants to be a driver and just can't make the cut, but that is far from being the case. I'm not alone in thinking I would find it boring and repetitive.

Under no circumstances would I consider the change from Guard to Driver as either a progression or a promotion - just a change in job.

 

[the sniper]

no undermining here! just a difference in opinion!

and it's obvious he does seem very bitter towards the industry! it's an observation not a criticism!......if he wanted to spend 34 years being bitter and hating the job that's his problem!

I thought he was just miffed with what the industry/grade had become. If you'd been a Guard for, say, 25 years, with protected pension/travel, would you really quit then just because you thought the job wasn't as good as it had been anymore (I didn't get the impression he hated it)? Or would you stick with it, see out the last few years of your working life, earning a good wage, and then take the protected pension/travel rights you'd built up? I know a good few guys in the Police who actually despise what the job has become, but are effectively trapped in it for the last few years as you'd be mad to leave before retirement having done the 'hard yards'.

For the record by the way I agree with much of what you said too, I can just sympathise with Tony's position. I've only been on the railway for a few years, but I literally feel sorry for the old hand Guards and Drivers when you talk about the difference between the work they had back in the day and the jobs we have now. Obviously the money makes up for the changes, but I have no doubt believing the job 'ain't what is was'.

I'm not making any snide comments - they are here for anyone to respond to, as you have done so. There are lots of guards who fail the driver assessment. There is nothing uncommon in that. Maybe he was simply happy just bumbling along as a guard, not wishing to 'progress' to being a driver.

Someone who joined as a Guard in 1980 most probably wasn't doing so with the intention of becoming a Driver. I just find the 'failed driver' kind of comment used towards any Guard to be such a cliché insult that it just isn't really helpful in any conversation, particularly where there's not evidence or relevance to support it.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I'm a Guard, I would not consider applying for a Drivers job. Not because I consider it a role that I would not "progress" to, but because it is an entirely different job I would not like.

I know all drivers think that everybody else working on the railway wants to be a driver and just can't make the cut, but that is far from being the case. I'm not alone in thinking I would find it boring and repetitive.

Under no circumstances would I consider the change from Guard to Driver as either a progression or a promotion - just a change in job.

That took the words out of my mouth Flamingo! They were my thoughts exactly.

 

[red2005]

I thought he was just miffed with what the industry/grade had become. If you'd been a Guard for, say, 25 years, with protected pension/travel, would you really quit then just because you thought the job wasn't as good as it had been anymore (I didn't get the impression he hated it)? Or would you stick with it, see out the last few years of your working life, earning a good wage, and then take the protected pension/travel rights you'd built up? I know a good few guys in the Police who actually despise what the job has become, but are effectively trapped in it for the last few years as you'd be mad to leave before retirement having done the 'hard yards'.

For the record by the way I agree with much of what you said too, I can just sympathise with Tony's position. I've only been on the railway for a few years, but I literally feel sorry for the old hand Guards and Drivers when you talk about the difference between the work they had back in the day and the jobs we have now. Obviously the money makes up for the changes, but I have no doubt believing the job 'ain't what is was'.



Someone who joined as a Guard in 1980 most probably wasn't doing so with the intention of becoming a Driver. I just find the 'failed driver' kind of comment used towards any Guard to be such a cliché insult that it just isn't really helpful in any conversation, particularly where there's not evidence or relevance to support it.

me personally?.......it wouldn't bother me how long i'd been in the job, if i've become disillusioned with the industry or i wasn't happy going to work every day i'd be away on my toes and give the opportunity to someone who really wanted it!....but that's just me!. we'd all like a nice 1950's "the railway children" environment where passengers pay for their tickets ALL the time and children were respectful etc etc etc but it's simply not like that anymore!

maybe the job isn't what it was but do you honestly think the job will be what it is now in 30 years time? changes will happen but that's not always a bad thing! for the larger part it's society that changes and if the industry doesn't change with it there may not be a job to go to!..........for example as i said in another post there are some complete phlegmwads that use the railways nowadays which is awful but in comparison to 30 years ago we are paid a really good wage to deal with it! I've found the railway is a very "take the rough with the smooth" environment anyway.


most of the old hands say to me that the money used to be crap but you loved coming into work etc........well once again i think society has had a big say in that changing simply because they used to be able to say what they liked when they liked in a mess room that includes racism and homophobia for example.......but in today's society you can't do that!.........and if you do whether individually or as a company/industry you are for the high jump!.......is that solely the industries fault? i don't believe so personally as most industries follow that model now anyway.

hey i can totally sympathise with his position also as i've been in positions/industries i really wasn't happy in myself and it really isn't nice but there is only one solution to that.......do something about it!.........if you weigh things up and the pension,hours,time off,money,free travel and any other perks you have outweigh the negativity you are feeling then to me it isn't a bad job/industry...........if it's vice versa i say look for something else!

like i said earlier i honestly think the railway isn't for everyone for many reasons......but despite it maybe not being what it was 30 years ago you'll find more people sticking around than you will heading for the exit gates!

 

[scott118]

Someone who joined as a Guard in 1980 most probably wasn't doing so with the intention of becoming a Driver. I just find the 'failed driver' kind of comment used towards any Guard to be such a cliché insult that it just isn't really helpful in any conversation, particularly where there's not evidence or relevance to support it.

why ever not? Insult? That's your interpretation surely. I'm aware of the fact that the monetary rewards driver's receive today, wasn't available in the 1980's, however, wasn't it, back in the day, one of the most sought after, respected jobs, to have gotten yourself? It wasn't long before that, that every railway worker would have hopefully progress through the ranks, like perhaps their own father had done, and their father before that..Becoming a driver was always the ultimate job on the railway, and for some, it still is, the mutt's nuts, as tradition dictates. Driving isn't for everyone though, that's a given. However at the depot I was based at, the percentage of wannabe drivers, was very high in comparison. Talking to the older generation, and you will also hear, the bitterness from those, who never made the driver grade..
Today's railway, like the world around it, is very much, a more diverse place than it once was for sure, and I've only been within the industry for 10 years. Prior to that, I'd had 20 years, in the telecoms sector, where I had become disillusioned and unhappy. What did I do? Sought a completely different career path! Some have said I was mad to leave the security of my previous, as it was also, a so called 'job for life', however I was miserable. Now don't get me wrong, the railway also at times, has made me miserable. I've had setbacks within, that I wouldn't wish on anyone, but that's not for discussion here! However the skill set I had gained since joining, has allowed myself to move, within the industry, to rekindle my enthusiasm. Something that I am, and will always be, very thankful for...

 

[tony6499]

Again the boil in the bags jump in and show how little they know, if I had wanted to be a driver I would have been one in 1980 when I joined the railway instead of the career path I took.

If someone asks my advice I always tell them that there is not the job security there was as a Guard/Conductor, there are not the perks there once were with the free travel boxes and you are under a lot more pressure not only from managers but passengers these days. If that is bitter and twisted so be it but I'm sure all you 5 minute wonders know better.
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no undermining here! just a difference in opinion!

and it's obvious he does seem very bitter towards the industry! it's an observation not a criticism!......if he wanted to spend 34 years being bitter and hating the job that's his problem!

You show how little you know , why would anyone spend 34 years doing a job in an industry they hated ?

 

[red2005]

Again the boil in the bags jump in and show how little they know, if I had wanted to be a driver I would have been one in 1980 when I joined the railway instead of the career path I took.

If someone asks my advice I always tell them that there is not the job security there was as a Guard/Conductor, there are not the perks there once were with the free travel boxes and you are under a lot more pressure not only from managers but passengers these days. If that is bitter and twisted so be it but I'm sure all you 5 minute wonders know better.
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You show how little you know , why would anyone spend 34 years doing a job in an industry they hated ?

Why would someone spend 34 years in the job and basically tell people to steer clear of the industry??

 

[tony6499]

Why would someone spend 34 years in the job and basically tell people to steer clear of the industry??

Why not ? Am I not allowed to say that then ? It's called using ones experience and knowledge to help others rather than be happy, clappy trying to make sarky replies which are of no help.

 

[red2005]

Why not ? Am I not allowed to say that then ? It's called using ones experience and knowledge to help others rather than be happy, clappy trying to make sarky replies which are of no help.

so you spend 34 years in an industry and advise people to steer clear because you don't hate the job?

the rest of us who've promoted the industry/role in a positive light whilst ALSO advising of the negatives by the way haven't been "clappy,happy" or sarky with our replies!?............we've been honest........so by your logic unless we portray the industry in a negative light it's all clappy happy and sarky in terms of our replies??

i suppose we just realise how good we've got it from having been out there in the "real world" for a while! like i said earlier some people wouldn't know a good thing if it smacked them in the face!.......anyone thinking that the conductor grade isn't a secure one is living in a dream world

 

[jay3562]

Why not ? Am I not allowed to say that then ? It's called using ones experience and knowledge to help others rather than be happy, clappy trying to make sarky replies which are of no help.

Im sorry but I resnt your view that anybody trying to highlight positive aspects of the job is being happy,clappy . I happen to think the job is a fairly deecnt job , and when everything is going smooth £26k(at least) + commission is a fairly decent wage for the job

The issues that you highlighted about job security , as well as the way the role is changing so you are always seen as operationally wrong are systematic of your own experiences in the role and will really depend on the TOC and the manager at the time

during my time as a guard I had numerous instances of passengers complaining about me because I challenged their drunken or rowdy behavior , because I dared question the validity of their ticket and because i threw them off the service , not once was I presumed to be at fault and I never recieved any disciplinary action as a result of it . I also once had a £35 loss on my machine when cashing in which due to my managers fairness as well as my honesty and my impeccable record was dealt with by way of an informal chat .I was never once badgered by my manager about lateness , or revenue performance .

I am aware that in some depots in some tocs around the country there will be managers and tocs that encourage their managers to badger staff about revenue targets , and would take a more official stance on money going missing and customer complaints .

 

[red2005]

Im sorry but I resnt your view that anybody trying to highlight positive aspects of the job is being happy,clappy . I happen to think the job is a fairly deecnt job , and when everything is going smooth £26k(at least) + commission is a fairly decent wage for the job

The issues that you highlighted about job security , as well as the way the role is changing so you are always seen as operationally wrong are systematic of your own experiences in the role and will really depend on the TOC and the manager at the time

during my time as a guard I had numerous instances of passengers complaining about me because I challenged their drunken or rowdy behavior , because I dared question the validity of their ticket and because i threw them off the service , not once was I presumed to be at fault and I never recieved any disciplinary action as a result of it . I also once had a £35 loss on my machine when cashing in which due to my managers fairness as well as my honesty and my impeccable record was dealt with by way of an informal chat .I was never once badgered by my manager about lateness , or revenue performance .

I am aware that in some depots in some tocs around the country there will be managers and tocs that encourage their managers to badger staff about revenue targets , and would take a more official stance on money going missing and customer complaints .

Spot on Jay!! The way I see it is if you do your job in accordance to the rules and keep your head down there's no worries about being in the wrong!.....If people wanna wing their way through the job they should expect the consequences!! I have to obey the rules why shouldn't they?


From my time on the job the only people I've seen moaning about the job are the ones that continuously have incidents where it IS actually their fault or they continue to pull sickies!! Then all of a sudden they have the gall to complain that it's the INDUSTRY that's bad!!! Lol hilarious