Confirmed : HS2 West Midlands-Manchester line to be scrapped and replaced with other projects.

[LNW-GW Joint]

https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1709576175733944566?t=0JyLoW_ljOxkafJgzWTWUw&s=19

Just above Stoke and Gobowen

That will be a road project, surely.
The map looks like they are reopening the Port Road from Dumfries to Stranraer, but that must be a road scheme too.
And the Cumbrian coast upgrade is only Workington-Carlisle.

 

[Megafuss]

It's hard to think what services could use the Leamside line if it were reopened. The issue being that any services would still hit capacity issues south of Ferryhill, so there's no new long distance services that could be added.

It could form part of the T&W Metro, though you think that would be mentioned if it that were the intention. It would be a long way to run a Metro service to reopen all of it, but if you only open as far as Fencehouses then it could work perhaps.

A Newcastle - Middlesbrough Northern service could come onto it, using the Stillington branch. That would fit with reopening Ferryhill. Such a service would be used, but it would be a lot of money spent to reopen a line to run a service that would between Teesside and Tyneside not serve anywhere very conveniently. You could have stations at:

* Washington, but not in the town centre
* Fencehouses or Shiney Row, but the settlements here are quite low density and distributed so there's no location which is all that convenient
* Belmont or Sherburn, though really Durham would be better served by having more services at its main station

You could reroute the TPE service along here but then who serves Chester-le-Street? I don't suppose CrossCountry will fancy it. And that seems no good for Durham which could go from one station to two stations 4-5 miles apart but with minimal extra services. And this wouldn't help congestion on the ECML because the TPE services would rejoin it south of Ferryhill.

I guess you could make some of these through services from Morpeth or the Metrocentre of some such in order to develop regional connections a bit more, though I doubt there is huge demand here.

It's not that enticing really.

I genuinely do not see the benefit of the Leamside line at all.

I actually challenged one of the vocal pro-leamside line politicians about this privately and they couldn't tell me how many new homes were planned on the line of the route

So, I fail to see where the passengers would come from for the two planned Washington Metro stations (Follingsby may get some workers using it) and you've already highlighted the other issues.

 

[Greybeard33]

The Government has published a separate list here: This is a shorter list and doesn't give the same items. As far as I can see there are some items on this list not on the other list, and vice versa. So it's a little confusing.

There are actually three HS2-related documents, all from the PM's office (not the DfT) on the gov.uk website.

What the plan to launch Network North means for you

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak explains his new approach to transport in our country.

www.gov.uk

- this is an "authored article" and appears to be the script for the relevant part of Sunak's conference speech.

PM redirects HS2 funding to revolutionise transport across the North and Midlands

A revolution in the country’s transport infrastructure will see billions of pounds redirected from spiralling HS2 costs to build the daily connections that people depend on – unlocking potential, driving growth and transforming communities.

www.gov.uk

- this is a press release and seems to align with the speech.

Find out about every new transport project in your region

As a result of the decision to scrap the extension of HS2, every region will now receive investment in the modes of transport that matter to you most.

www.gov.uk

- this is called a "news story" and gives more detail about the projects that are promised funding in each region. However, it omits some of the "big ticket" items from the other two documents, e.g. Midlands Rail Hub, new Bradford station, and the £12bn link between Manchester and Liverpool. I surmise it was compiled before Sunak and his team had finalised what they would announce.

Edit: since I first posted this on 4th October, the third, "news story" document has been amended - now dated 5th October. It has been brought more in line with the other documents and with the DfT Network North "policy paper" at:

Network North

A £36 billion plan to improve the transport that people use every day.

www.gov.uk

For example, the promise to reopen the Leamside line has been replaced by a comment that the North East's CRSTS2 funding allocation could be used to part fund the reopening. The original wording can still be viewed in post #76 for comparison.

 

[Energy]

Part 74 Electrification Chippenham - Bristol Temple Meads & Bristol Parkway

Finally. All the difficult civils were done years ago.

6 platform Euston will be interesting, I'd rather have 7 platforms to have 1 spare.

 

[The Planner]

NR can start worrying about electrifying the line to Chester and beyond, and replacing all the signalling.
And maybe fixing the roof and canopies...

Roof and canopies are the last thing on the list, the infrastructure there is knackered.

 

[nr758123]

My guess is the proposed new sections of NPR (Liverpool-Manchester Airport and Piccadilly-Marsden) are dead, with existing lines upgraded instead.

Piccadilly-Marsden was only included in the Integrated Rail Plan so that Grant Shapps could go on regional TV and claim that high speed rail was still coming to Yorkshire. It was never more than a press release falsely pretending to be a serious proposal.

 

[urbophile]

Funnily enough...

Philip Davies MP

Latest news and campaigns from Philip Davies, Member of Parliament for the Shipley constituency

www.philip-davies.org.uk

Just not marginal sadly...

Everywhere is these days. There is always hope.

 

[Llandudno]

Liverpool has Merseyrail. Leeds has nowt. It's ludicrous that such a large, important city has an almost entirely bus based public transport system.



It's much easier to reinstate Phase 2A than Euston. It's just farmland.

and Leeds’s bus based public transport system is operated mainly by First…!

Hilariously it's listed as costing just £1bn.

I doubt it will need a thread as I can’t see the wires ever extending west of Chester!

 

[bluenoxid]

Massive government giveaway on transport projects. Surely, Skipton-Colne must be funded!

Just a gentle reminder that reopening Leamside could be Pelaw-Washington (east) once it has been scoped.

Baildon will have improved access using the Shipley East bypass, which will do a great job of moving the traffic jams round slightly.

 

[Monty]

Wouldn't be so bad if all of the money for the Manchester leg was being spent on the rail network, but much of it is being spent on roads. I doubt even half of it will even happen, if they can't build one railway line i have a serious time about them delivering a litany of smaller but complex projects.

 

[Llandudno]

I'd rather he'd flung the money at the borderlands line instead but there we are..

The Borderlands line is going to be two trains per hour from December….

I suppose when they cancel half of them, or they are running 20 minutes late it shouldn’t be too long for the next one!

 

[InTheEastMids]

Many of the rail schemes listed as going ahead have been through cost analysis and reports before and they’ve all failed as not having a high enough cost to benefit ratio. What’s changed now?? 80% of these schemes will never happen.

It smacks of quick write down every scheme we've even been vaguely thinking about as we need some stuff to announce in an hours time.

These were my thoughts - Unless these all have appropriate benefit cost ratios, they presumably won't go ahead.
So, Rishi gets to announce a lot of projects that will never get built.

Can anybody point me towards some decent analysis of tipping all of the non-Birmingham HS2 services onto the Trent Valley just south of Colwich Junction and Shugborough Tunnel? I'd sort-of gathered that it was a critical point that anybody in their right mind would want to bypass?

 

[Rikki Lamb]

According to the Network North docs, Bradford to Manchester will take 55 mins and bradford to Huddersfield will take 12 minutes. Reopening the Spen Valley line or Pickle Bridge?

 

[urbophile]

Is there even an issue with the links between Manchester and Liverpool?

Motorway works fine and the trains are fast enough.

So-called 'fast' trains are (at present) not that reliable. Even if that were solved (probably mainly a staffing issue), both routes have a poor local service, especially at the Manchester end. Increasing their frequency would restrict capacity, so you either need a completely new line or four-tracking one or the other. And I wouldn't call 40 minutes for an express service between two major cities 30+ miles apart 'fast enough'.

 

[brad465]

Quelle surprise, Netwrok Rail wasn't consulted on this Network North plan:

https://twitter.com/christianwolmar/status/1709575467546587275

Extraordinary but I'm told @networkrail was not consulted on today's rail announcement on Network North nor was it asked for advice or information. The company is awaiting further information.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

#44 - Bradford-Huddersfield in 12 minutes, Bradford-Manchester in 30.
How do they do that without major tunnelling?

#58 - Nottingham-Newark-ECML-Yorkshire (extending MML trains).
This was mooted as a possible route for HS2 trains following the axe of the eastern leg.
Only now they will be MML trains.

The Welsh government is lukewarm about the electrification of the North Wales main line.
"Nowhere near the top of Welsh priorities", the Welsh transport minister has said.
What we don't want is Cardiff to purloin the £1 billion to spend on its own vanity projects in South Wales.
Actually the North Wales project will mean wiring from Crewe and Warrington to Chester first.

 

[A0wen]

Notice they use a year old passenger numbers to help make the case worse.

Not sure that's a fair criticism - 2022 is the last 'full' year of figures, whereas 2023 still has 1/4 left before the 2023 figures are known. The trend will be apparent from previous years though.

 

[Purple Train]

Quelle surprise, Netwrok Rail wasn't consulted on this Network North plan:

https://twitter.com/christianwolmar/status/1709575467546587275

Rishi presumably thinks Network Rail is a helicopter company - they do have one or two, after all...

 

[Rikki Lamb]

#44 - Bradford-Huddersfield in 12 minutes, Bradford-Manchester in 30.
How do they do that without major tunnelling?

#58 - Nottingham-Newark-ECML-Yorkshire (extending MML trains).
This was mooted as a possible route for HS2 trains following the axe of the eastern leg.
Only now they will be MML trains.

The Welsh government is lukewarm about the electrification of the North Wales main line.
"Nowhere near the top of Welsh priorities", the Welsh transport minister has said.
What we don't want is Cardiff to purloin the £1 billion to spend on its own vanity projects in South Wales.
Actually the North Wales project will mean wiring from Crewe and Warrington to Chester first.

They could reopen the Pickle Bridge line through Baliff Bridge. BR had a plan to reopen it circa 1971 when the M62 was being built but instead built a new bridge on the Spen Valley line.

 

[Russel]

Any electrification is good, but why go for North Wales first?

I'd love to see the North Wales Coast wired but is it really worth it at the moment, the Euston services will benefit but most local services will still need DMUs, won't they?

And I'd put money on the Ffestiniog branch remaining diesel only in the same way the Windermere branch was never electrified.

 

[Arkeeos]

Apparently network rail was not consulted for any of this, I highly doubt this will ever happen, thankfully.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Any electrification is good, but why go for North Wales first?

My guess is that he had to say something about cross-border improvements, and joining up the union (plus the Irish link).
The NW electrification is probably the simplest way to do that, and also avoids the Welsh government counter-claiming Barnett consequentials.
The WG would then spend that money on its own projects.
I also thought Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury would get a shout for the West Midlands, but nothing doing.

 

[HSTEd]

Any electrification is good, but why go for North Wales first?

To provide positive political capital.
A bunch of the constituencies along the line are going to be marginals at the next election.

 

[lineclear]

Quelle surprise, Netwrok Rail wasn't consulted on this Network North plan:

https://twitter.com/christianwolmar/status/1709575467546587275

Presumably, Sunak wanted some good news alongside the cancellation of HS2 phase 2, so brought in Andrew Gilligan and his crayon.

 

[DC1989]

Wow - Euston reduced to 6 and the sale of compulsory land that that the government bought for phase 2 has begun. Scorched earth policy so Labour can't reinstate. Disgraceful behaviour and a failure of democracy

 

[renegademaster]

The cost of everything, the value of nothing.


£35bn for an app that doesn’t work anyone?

Most of that infamous figure was not spent on the app

 

[Delenn]

Scorched earth policy so Labour can't reinstate. Disgraceful behaviour and a failure of democracy

They want the money to bribe the electorate with.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Actually the North Wales project will mean wiring from Crewe and Warrington to Chester first.

Which, IMHO, makes sense

 

[LTJ87]

I wonder if interested parties will seek a judicial review of the PM’s decision?

 

[stratford]

Wow - Euston reduced to 6 and the sale of compulsory land that that the government bought for phase 2 has begun. Scorched earth policy so Labour can't reinstate. Disgraceful behaviour and a failure of democracy

The land should still be covered by a covenant that it can be bought by compulsory purchase for 8 more years (I think).