Connection not Guaranteed ...

[joke2711]

Morning Forum Members

I am commencing a regular commute from Rainford to Hoylake.

I notice that on the displayed Northern Rail Timetable at Kirkby Station, it states that "connections are not guaranteed".

This doesn't cause any problems travelling in the Morning as the Merseyrail Services are frequent enough, however, if for whatever reason there was a delay on Merseyrail in the evening and I missed the last connection at Kirkby to Rainford or the Rainford Service was cancelled, what is the position for onward travel to destination?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Morning Forum Members

I am commencing a regular commute from Rainford to Hoylake.

I notice that on the displayed Northern Rail Timetable at Kirkby Station, it states that "connections are not guaranteed".

This doesn't cause any problems travelling in the Morning as the Merseyrail Services are frequent enough, however, if for whatever reason there was a delay on Merseyrail in the evening and I missed the last connection at Kirkby to Rainford or the Rainford Service was cancelled, what is the position for onward travel to destination?

Perhaps they mean that they won't hold one train for t'other. But it would be ludicrous for them to think that by displaying a sign at a station they can somehow get out of their obligation to provide alternative transport.

Suffice to say, if you have left the required minimum connection time (5 minutes at Kirkby) in your intended itinerary, you are entitled to onward transport if there are delays that cause you to miss the last train.

That entitlement might not always be respected, so it would be a good idea to make sure you have enough money on you to pay for a taxi if necessary - recovering this from any TOC that has refused assistance.

 

[joke2711]

I didn't think connections were held anywhere on the Network?
Will be interesting when this situation does arise ... I will report back if and when it does .. guess I will be in the hands of the Kirkby Merseyrail ticket office ...

 

[mallard]

I didn't think connections were held anywhere on the Network?

They definitely are from time-to-time. Last time I was on the EMT Liverpool-Norwich service, it was delayed around Manchester and they held the London-bound connection at Sheffield for us (unfortunately, they didn't announce this on the train, so as I'd already resigned myself to missing the connection and getting a later one from Nottingham, I wasn't prepared to disembark).

 

[Kite159]

I didn't think connections were held anywhere on the Network?
Will be interesting when this situation does arise ... I will report back if and when it does .. guess I will be in the hands of the Kirkby Merseyrail ticket office ...

Some GA branch line trains get held for small delays during off-peak hours. Sudbury & Harwich branch springs to mind.

 

[GW43125]

Some GA branch line trains get held for small delays during off-peak hours. Sudbury & Harwich branch springs to mind.

I've also had the Marlow donkey (back in FGW days) held for a late stopper

 

[scrapy]

They are much more likely to be held if it's the same TOC for both services.

 

[Camden]

Remember the old BR slogan, "we're getting there", which was parodied mercilessly at the time with the addition of "... Eventually".

Comes to something when you can look at that and think: at least you arrived!

These days, it seems some TOCs would prefer for a passenger reaching their planned end destination at all to be regarded as some kind of optional luxury. What on earth do they expect people to think when they can't get home or to work on services which are meant to run (or alternative provided)? "Oh well, never mind. I'll just wait here until the morning."?? How can you rely on a public transport service that doesn't guarantee to run (something, at least)?

Never mind the RDG planning to make things sweeter for the TOCs by plotting to end cheaper split ticketing fares, or the RMT plotting to keep guards on trains. Where's the passengers "union" to take these companies to task, and punish them into reasonableness and compliance??

 

[bb21]

Never mind the RDG planning to make things sweeter for the TOCs by plotting to end cheaper split ticketing fares, or the RMT plotting to keep guards on trains. Where's the passengers "union" to take these companies to task, and punish them into reasonableness and compliance??

Why not start one yourself if things are as bad as you suggest?

I'm sure there are plenty of issues that you can focus on which catch the imagination of the wider user groups.

 

[Camden]

Why not start one yourself if things are as bad as you suggest?

I don't think that (your entire initial unedited post above) is an appropriate comment from a moderator, in response to a perfectly reasonable ponderance.

 

[bb21]

Why not? I wasn't criticising your comments, just a genuine question, seeing how vocal and critical you are of most things.

If things are as bad as you make out, would it not make sense to start your own advocacy group? Plenty of people do that.

Do you have a solution to this issue of connection not being held then?

 

[Camden]

I've also edited my post, to include your post as it originally appeared. If you're suggesting there was a constructive way to read that, then I would say that is certainly not the impression you gave me and that my confidence in the integrity of this site is compromised as a result.

 

[bb21]

Yes, I added the second sentence within about 10 seconds. What is the issue?

 

[DelW]

My (anecdotal) impression is that 'last service of the day' connections are more likely to be held, presumably (a) to avoid expensive late-night taxi journeys, and (b) because there is less risk of consequential knock-on delays later in the timetable. Does anyone know whether that is actually an official policy, or if the instances I've seen are just on-the-ground staff being kind to passengers where possible?

 

[Camden]

Yes, I added the second sentence within about 10 seconds. What is the issue?

On the basis of your original post, which made your sentiments clear - inappropriately so in my view, given your moderator status - I could ask you the same thing, if I was interested.

The fact is, I contributed to a forum asking a reasonable, on topic, question as to what exactly the organisations that are supposed to support passengers do for them.

And the fact is you responded with a message that I felt was overtly unwelcoming, personally critical, self serving and needless, which would make me think twice about posting on these forums in future, given you are a moderator.

I believe I have made myself perfectly clear as to what the issue is, certainly by now.

 

[bb21]

I disagree with your interpretation, but I am not going to continue discussing this in public. Please lodge a complaint with another member of the team if you are unhappy with my posts, and they can look at it without my presence. As I already stated, you are one of those who are highly critical of just about everything, and your post above made out as if the customers were held to random on the operators' whim and freely ignored when it cannot be further from the truth, even allowing for possible sarcasm which may or may not be what you intended.

All I will say is that there is a lot of hype and untruths in your original rant, and there are plenty of advocacy groups which fight for passenger rights. Just because you don't see or understand the work they do doesn't mean they don't exist, or are ineffective. Some are actually surprisingly good at getting what they want, so either joining one or starting your own may make you see the amount of effort that goes in and what is out there, addressing the points in the rant you made, assuming you are at all interested in doing that. There are also plenty of eyes kept on all aspects of each operation. The DfT are certainly no pushovers if you ever had the (mis)pleasure of dealing with them. They may not be very good at some aspects of their regulatory role, but they are certainly on the ball with the majority of it. Just because some myths keep being peddled around this forum does not make them true.

 

[30907]

your moderator status
overtly unwelcoming, personally critical, self serving and needless
given you are a moderator.

Unless the mod is using their status improperly, they are perfectly entitled to make comments.

There is a report facility....

 

[Camden]

I disagree with your interpretation, but I am not going to continue discussing this in public. Please lodge a complaint with another member of the team if you are unhappy with my posts, and they can look at it without my presence. As I already stated, you are one of those who are highly critical of just about everything, and your post above made out as if the customers were held to random on the operators' whim and freely ignored when it cannot be further from the truth, even allowing for possible sarcasm which may or may not be what you intended.

All I will say is that there is a lot of hype and untruths in your original rant, and there are plenty of advocacy groups which fight for passenger rights. Just because you don't see or understand the work they do doesn't mean they don't exist, or are ineffective. Some are actually surprisingly good at getting what they want, so either joining one or starting your own may make you see the amount of effort that goes in and what is out there, addressing the points in the rant you made, assuming you are at all interested in doing that. There are also plenty of eyes kept on all aspects of each operation. The DfT are certainly no pushovers if you ever had the (mis)pleasure of dealing with them. They may not be very good at some aspects of their regulatory role, but they are certainly on the ball with the majority of it. Just because some myths keep being peddled around this forum does not make them true.

Yes, I do intend to lodge a complaint, including about the above.