Connections at Basel

[LesS]

I am planning a European visit next year. This includes a journey from Frankfurt to Milan. I have been planning on making the change of trains; from a DB ICE to a EC; at Basel SBB.

I note from the European Timetable that connections at Basel SBB cannot be guaranteed. The alternative seems to be to make the connection at Bern.

Is there a connections problem at Basel? If so, what is the nature of it?

From the experience of contributors, what is your experience at Basel? What suggestions do you make?

 

[blackfive460]

Providing your arrival is on time, there's no particular problem with connections at Basel SBB.

However, DB trains have a habit of being late while SBB trains tend to usually be on time.
Since most trains from Frankfurt to Basel will have come from places further north, you should be able to check to see if there are any delays to your incoming train well before it's due to arrive and try to make alternative plans.

 

[Quakkerillo]

I am planning a European visit next year. This includes a journey from Frankfurt to Milan. I have been planning on making the change of trains; from a DB ICE to a EC; at Basel SBB.

I note from the European Timetable that connections at Basel SBB cannot be guaranteed. The alternative seems to be to make the connection at Bern.

Is there a connections problem at Basel? If so, what is the nature of it?

From the experience of contributors, what is your experience at Basel? What suggestions do you make?

I've myself had to make a connection from a DB ICE onto a Swiss ICN at Basel SBB, and it went smooth. The ICE had some issues, which is why it started its route short at our station where we boarded, but SBB is quite a clear and logical station with no real issue for transferring, so you should technically be completely fine.
Just try to be in the middle to front of the train from Germany, as that's where the stairs and escalators can be found at the station to speed things up a bit.

 

[duesselmartin]

I usually Plan a lunch break buffer at Basel when going to Italy. Mind you, returning Trenitalia also has a punctuality problem.

 

[306024]

There did seem to be some long term engineering work between Basel and Freiburg that reduced capacity when I did the journey a couple of months back. We crawled along as soon as we left Basel and ended up 30 late by Cologne.

If I'm doing a long international journey I'll plan 'fire breaks' in whatever city takes my fancy. It breaks up being sat on a train for hours on end, and gives you the chance to make up time if something goes wrong.

 

[30907]

If I'm doing a long international journey I'll plan 'fire breaks' in whatever city takes my fancy. It breaks up being sat on a train for hours on end, and gives you the chance to make up time if something goes wrong.

If arrival time in Milan is critical it makes sense to start an hour earlier - delays even happen in Switzerland!

If it's only a question of ticketing, you have a through Saver ticket to Chiasso (you can't get a Sparpreis Italien on that route ATM) your ticket is automatically valid on the next train anyway. If you are splitting then you are still unlikely to have problems getting your ticket endorsed.

 

[Groningen]

Remember that all trains to Italy need to be reserved except that small stoppingservice from Chiasso to Milano. I would worry more on the connection in Arth-Goldau of 4 minutes (11.46 - 11.50). Shortest connection is the 14.54 - 15.04 in Basel SBB, One can also travel further to Zürich HB and wait there for a hour to arrive in Milano at 20.45 instead of 19.45 via the short connection in Basel.

 

[Please Explain]

Basel / Bâle is a cultural delight! One of my favorite cities and I can heartily recommend a longer stopover there to see and do all the city has to offer.

It's a really interesting city and the wider Dreiländereck region where France, Deutschland und der Schweiz all come together with the mix of languages, (Deutsch, Français and Baseldytsch).
The old trams are a must and be sure to visit the Kunsthalle and Voltaplatz is very interesting too with all the construction going on there. You can take a cruise along the Rhine too or cross it on a ferry that runs on a wire.

Because Switzerland is not in the EU customs union the border checkpoints all around the city with St Louis (France), Weil am Reihn and Lörrach (Germany) are still manned by die Grenzwache! Same applies at the three stations too Basel SBB, (Swiss), / Bâle (SNCF) (French of course) and until recently at die Basel Badischer Bahnhof (German). It gave me a bit of a feeling of Berlin in the old days when I arrived at Bâle (SNCF) for the first time one dark December night off the EC Iris from Brussel, (which sadly now runs no longer..) and came face to face with die Grenzwache!!

Basel ist die schönste stadt der Schweiz! :

 

[Groningen]

One can take a tram from Basel through France and back to Switzerland. Line 10 to Rodersdorf.

 

[duesselmartin]

Sounds like a recommendation. So gar I only been in Basel toll change trains.

 

[Gordon]

Is there a connections problem at Basel? If so, what is the nature of it?

There is no specific problem. The ICE from Germany will come into the same area of Basel SBB as the EC to Milano will leave from. Possibly the same platform but usually a platform or two apart (can be worked out but only if we know your proposed times already). What the phrase you have seen means is that there is a risk that an ICE from Germany may arrive late into Basel and this does happen quite often)

As others have said, build in some time at Basel. Even if you just go outside the station entrance you get a really 'Swiss' scene as the station square is a massive tramway interchange, with various cafes around it. Basel SBB also has one of the last traditional grandiose 'belle epoque' station buffet restaurants in Europe

The Swiss will recognise if an ICE has arrived late and it would be unusual if staff were unsympathetic if you did miss your connection.

Don't forget that even if you did miss your connection at Basel you can get all the way from Basel to the Swiss / Italian border (Chiasso or Domodossola) on any other internal Swiss train or EC without reservation as there are no obligatory reservations on Swiss internal journeys.

Other things to note:
1) If you go Frankfurt - Zurich - Milano via the Gotthard, internal Swiss trains from Zurich to Lugano will be traditional loco hauled trains (= more comfortable seats IMO)

2) Basel - Milano EC trains go EITHER via the Gotthard OR vie the Lotschberg - Simplon. Make sure you book the route you prefer!



.

 

[blackfive460]

1) If you go Frankfurt - Zurich - Milano via the Gotthard, internal Swiss trains from Zurich to Lugano will be traditional loco hauled trains (= more comfortable seats IMO)

Sadly no longer the case.
All international trains, indeed most passenger trains now go via the Gotthard Basis Tunnel and, as far as I am aware, none will be loco hauled.

There are loco hauled trains between Basel and Erstfeld but if you want to go over the old route and avoid the tunnel, aside from some tourist trains, it will be a FLIRT EMU from Erstfeld to Bellinzona.

 

[duesselmartin]

the Basel-Locarno IR should still be loco hauled.

 

[Groningen]

Basel SBB has every hour at least 20 traindepatures during weekdays.

Trams of Basel (source Wikipedia 2014):

 

[Gordon]

Sadly no longer the case.
as far as I am aware, none will be loco hauled.
.

Happily it is the case, yes they will be loco hauled!

Most Zurich - Lugano ICs in the 2017 timetable are Class 460 with push/pull EC/EWIV sets which is why I made the suggestion of that route.

The planned Gotthard base tunnel fast EMU trains have not been built yet hence the use of class 460s in the 2017 timetable


.

 

[Gordon]

the Basel-Locarno IR should still be loco hauled.

I'm afraid not. The Basel / Zürich - Locarno IR loco hauled trains were withdrawn at the timetable change last week.




.

 

[Gordon]

Trams of Basel (source Wikipedia 2014):
]

current network map 2016-2017

http://www.bvb.ch/docs/default-source/regiofahrplan/liniennetz_bs_stelen_2017.pdf?sfvrsn=2

I am a big fan of the Basel transport network. Very interesting rail and tramways. I remember the last 4-wheel trams running, and the last Swiss standard trams have just about gone, so perhaps a little less interesting stock wise from now on, although the Re4/4II and old stock commuter trains survive into 2017


.

 

[LesS]

I thank each of you for the information you have contributed. It is helping me considerably.
I plan to be travelling in early May. My intention has been to take ICE 275 from Frankfurt to Basel and change to EC57. The tabled connection time is 45 minutes. If the ICE runs late the connection might be at risk. I particularly wish to travel by the Simplon route.

From my present understanding of the timetable I could leave Frankfurt 1 hour earlier on ICE101 to Zurich but this entails another change of trains at Mannheim. It would give 1hr 45min for the connection and this seems safe.

There seems to be a few IC services from Basel to Brig with a reasonable connection to Milan. This also involves another change of trains at Spiez. This too looks a bit messy.

The only later EC from Basel is EC59 which is not due in Milan until 9.30pm.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm afraid not. The Basel / Zürich - Locarno IR loco hauled trains were withdrawn at the timetable change last week.

Locarno down to S-bahn only - that's a heck of a cut for a popular holiday destination.

 

[blackfive460]

Most Zurich - Lugano ICs in the 2017 timetable are Class 460 with push/pull EC/EWIV sets which is why I made the suggestion of that route.

Well, you may have access to information that I don't have.
While I haven't seen SBB loco diagrams post the timetable change, the information I have is that there are two Re460s diagramed on weekdays with the rest being ICN. I'm not sure about weekends.

I'll be extremely happy if I'm wrong and you are right!

 

[Gordon]

Well, you may have access to information that I don't have.
While I haven't seen SBB loco diagrams post the timetable change, the information I have is that there are two Re460s diagramed on weekdays with the rest being ICN. I'm not sure about weekends.

I'll be extremely happy if I'm wrong and you are right!

Official lists suggest at least five each way Zurich - Lugano - Zurich runs are 460 every day of the week, other services shown as 460 at weekends and ICN in the week.


.

 

[Gordon]

I plan to be travelling in early May. My intention has been to take ICE 275 from Frankfurt to Basel and change to EC57. The tabled connection time is 45 minutes. If the ICE runs late the connection might be at risk. I particularly wish to travel by the Simplon route.

From my present understanding of the timetable I could leave Frankfurt 1 hour earlier on ICE101 to Zurich but this entails another change of trains at Mannheim. It would give 1hr 45min for the connection and this seems safe.

Don't forget that the DB Bahn journeyplanner has the facility to add 'via' points and change the connection time at an intermediate station, with it's 'leave later' or 'arrive earlier than the computer has suggested' options, so you can force it to get close to your desired route and timings.

As such on your behalf I input Frankfurt to Milano via Basel and Brig. It indeed showed up exactly your original choice - ICE275 connecting to EC57.

By asking for 'arrive earlier in Basel' I got a new train from Frankfurt - EC207 at 08.01. This is not an ICE so no good if you wanted the ICE experience. Personally I would choose it as it is a traditional loco hauled train and therefore less likely to to be here next time you come to Europe!
However this itinerary extends your connecting time in Basel SBB to 1 hour 37 minutes potentially giving time for the tram watching


.

 

[Groningen]

I note from the European Timetable that connections at Basel SBB cannot be guaranteed. The alternative seems to be to make the connection at Bern.

Changing in Bern is not an option because all Basel - Milano trains (via Brig) pass through Bern. So much choice. There is a direct train from Basel at 15.04 to Milano. Strange is that that train in Italy is slow. From Como nonstop in 47 minutes to Milano. The local train (15 minutes later) stopping also in Seregno and Monza is 10 minutes faster! 30 years ago; Milano to Basel direct train Tiziano took 5,5 hours. So improvement!

 

[axlecounter]

Changing in Bern is not an option because all Basel - Milano trains (via Brig) pass through Bern. So much choice. There is a direct train from Basel at 15.04 to Milano. Strange is that that train in Italy is slow. From Como nonstop in 47 minutes to Milano. The local train (15 minutes later) stopping also in Seregno and Monza is 10 minutes faster! 30 years ago; Milano to Basel direct train Tiziano took 5,5 hours. So improvement!

You've picked a specific EC which is planned with an extra 10 minutes for some reason. The others run with the same timing to those local train you refer to, which are in fact RE, direct services with only two stops. Really local trains take about 1:15!
As for 30 years ago, many many things were different and comparisons should be done only with great care...

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

To return to the OP's question, 45 mins connection at Basel SBB should be just fine. 95-97%% chance that you'll make it! The reference to the connection at Bern is that the ICE goes on to Bern (en route to Interlaken) and also connects with the EC train there. I expect you can also make the connection at Spiez if you check the timetable out! There will be others making the same connection as you so in the unlikely event of a delay, advise the DB train staff who will advise SBB control that passengers are connecting and they can hold the EC train by 5 mins or so without it messing up the timetable across Switzerland too much!

 

[30907]

You could consider booking yourself via the old Loetschberg route. Put "via Kandersteg" into the booking engine.

It's an hour slower, but as well as giving you the spectacular scenery of the south ramp instead of the base tunnel, you would have a 40 minute connection in Spiez and 20 minutes in Brig - and if things go really pearshaped you can switch back to the tunnel route and regain lost time.

There's a Geneva-Milan EC an hour after the Basel-Milan, so you still get ICE 275 (through to Spiez).

Happy Christmas!

 

[Groningen]

There is a hourly train from Brig to Bern on the old line (not via Visp) in 1 hour and 44 minutes. The EC takes 41 minutes less time and remember you seem to have the train reserved between Domodossola and Milano and v.v..

 

[Gordon]

You could consider booking yourself via the old Loetschberg route.
It's an hour slower, but as well as giving you the spectacular scenery of the south ramp instead of the base tunnel,

That's a good call.

The OP appears to not want things too "messy" but as a stalwart of the route I can vouch that it would be pretty hassle free, even though it would be two changes of train.

Take ICE275 through to Spiez, thereby omitting the busy multi-platform stations of both Basel SBB and Bern (during the stops at both places just sit back and watch the rush from the ridiculous comfort of the ICE seats).

Change st Spiez where, even if ICE275 is running late there ought to be time to appreciate the stunning view of Lake Thun from just outside the station.

Spiez is a 'manageable' open aspect station with only five (modernised high) platforms and subways, so a good place to change trains.

ICE275 arrives Spiez platform 1 at 13.32. Lötschberger RE4273 departs platform 3 at 14.12, arrive Brig platform 9 at 15.20. Change to Genève - Milano train EC39. Depart Brig platform 6 at 15.44. Milano Cle arrive 17.37.

Brig is also a very easy place to change trains.



.

 

[stephenhartley]

To return to the OP's question, 45 mins connection at Basel SBB should be just fine. 95-97%% chance that you'll make it! The reference to the connection at Bern is that the ICE goes on to Bern (en route to Interlaken) and also connects with the EC train there. I expect you can also make the connection at Spiez if you check the timetable out! There will be others making the same connection as you so in the unlikely event of a delay, advise the DB train staff who will advise SBB control that passengers are connecting and they can hold the EC train by 5 mins or so without it messing up the timetable across Switzerland too much!

+1 all of the above