Connections at Cardiff Central between FGW services from London & a last Valley Line

[Eire Sprinter]

En route to Fishguard for the Rosslare ferry one night recently the FGW train (20.15 Paddington-Swansea) was fractionally late into Cardiff Central at 22.26 (due 22.23)

Within half a minute or so of my train coming to a standstill I saw across the way a Class 150 departing on the 22.26 to Merthyr Tydfil (the last train of the day)

Even if an intending passenger onboard my train was perfectly positioned in the carriage nearest the subway and ran like the clappers I couldn’t be sure if there were quite enough seconds to make the Merthyr train.

Earlier in the evening such a happening wouldn’t matter too much as trains from London to Cardiff and Cardiff to Merthyr are every half an hour.

Appreciably a clockface timetable means that Valley Lines trains can’t really wait but given that this was the last train of the night a wait of a minute or two (the train would still arrive into Merthyr a few minutes ahead of the scheduled 23.30 due to the apparent slack in the schedule) would seem reasonable.

Granted there’s a later bus, Stagecoach route X4, from Central Bus Station (just outside) at 23.05 but this is beside the point. Surely there needs to be a little flexibility in such situations and if contracts etc don’t allow for such flexibility without penalties they perhaps ought to.

Cardiff Central has a recommended connection time of 3 minutes but the last ex Paddington journey to Merthyr is shown as 19.15.

 

[yorkie]

Cardiff Central has a recommended connection time of 3 minutes

Where did you find that? It appears to be 7 minutes...

 

[bb21]

Cardiff Central has a recommended connection time of 3 minutes

Only if you are changing from a Valley Lines service onto another Valley Lines service.

As one of the legs is a GW service, the minimum connection time is 7 minutes. See National Rail Timetable Page 7 (Page 8 of the pdf).

 

[Eagle]

Only if you are changing from a Valley Lines service onto another Valley Lines service.

I assume that excludes Ebbw Vale and Maesteg (i.e. only serices to/from Queen Street) so that then they're always same- or cross-platform interchanges.

 

[bb21]

I assume that excludes Ebbw Vale and Maesteg (i.e. only serices to/from Queen Street) so that then they're always same- or cross-platform interchanges.

Yes, Table 130 services only, which include services to Treherbert, Aberdare, Merthyr, Pontypridd, Rhymney, Coryton, Penarth, Barry, Barry Island and Bridgend (via Rhoose).

 

[Eire Sprinter]

Thanks for clarifying that point regarding the differential in connecting times at Cardiff Central - it's something I hadn't "tuned into" and had seen the 3 minutes in the Valley Lines timetable book.

 

[bb21]

As poorly designed as National Rail Enquiries's journey planner is, I think it is pretty spot on with connection times. Hence if it says that a connection is not official, then I would trust that. Only connections that are given (and longer obviously) are official connections.

 

[Michael.Y]

Normally in a situation like this it is entirely reasonable and possible for the guard to phone control to inform them that they have a passenger for the connecting service. In this case it is possible that a train can be held slightly - it happens all the time on the CDF-HHDs for the SHR connection to Aberystwyth (1tp2h). However this is within the same TOC. I have though been working ATW services off NWP which have been held, sometimes up to 5 minutes, to allow pax from late running PAD-CDF trains to connect, thus making us late (although makeup time is built in at HFD and SHR).

In this case, as FGW would be responsible for the passenger being late and missing their connection, the passenger could be put into a taxi and transported to their final destination at FGW's expense.

There are ways and means around stranding a passenger due to no fault of their own.

 

[WelshBluebird]

In this case, as FGW would be responsible for the passenger being late and missing their connection, the passenger could be put into a taxi and transported to their final destination at FGW's expense.

There are ways and means around stranding a passenger due to no fault of their own.

Doesn't that only apply if the passenger has given time to include the minimum connection time in their journey? So it wouldn't apply in the case of the OP.

 

[Michael.Y]

Doesn't that only apply if the passenger has given time to include the minimum connection time in their journey? So it wouldn't apply in the case of the OP.

Yes, sorry, indeed in the OP's case it isn't a connecting train - I was talking in more general terms. Although if I was making a journey London - Merthyr I wouldn't wait for the last train of the day!

 

[tractakid]

A question about connection times... If a passenger's itinerary allows the minimum connection time but a train arrives late, early enough to make the connection but in less than the minimum time, is a passenger allowed to deliberately miss a train (that they could have caught) and claim delay repay? Is there anything about 'making a reasonable attempt' to board a train in time that could come into play?

 

[bb21]

A question about connection times... If a passenger's itinerary allows the minimum connection time but a train arrives late, early enough to make the connection but in less than the minimum time, is a passenger allowed to deliberately miss a train (that they could have caught) and claim delay repay? Is there anything about 'making a reasonable attempt' to board a train in time that could come into play?

I don't think this is clearly defined. It all depends on the circumstances.

If you had 3 minutes to make your connection and the change is cross-platform, then you would probably be expected to have caught your connecting service, unless you have mobility issues or other reasonable excuses. If you only had 1 minute and had to go up and down a set of stairs then you probably wouldn't have been expected to make it.

Deliberately missing your connection in order to claim Delay Repay could potentially be perceived as being fraudulent.

 

[tractakid]

The lack of a clear line is potentially worrying. Are passengers given the benefit of the doubt, however?

Primarily being a tube challenger, however, I enjoy making connections that shouldn't really be possible, so I doubt I'll encounter the issue personally. I have no intention of trying to defraud the railways.

 

[bb21]

The lack of a clear line is potentially worrying. Are passengers given the benefit of the doubt, however?

I certainly hope that genuine passengers are given the benefit of the doubt.

I have no intention of trying to defraud the railways.

It was a hypothetical scenario anyway.