Contactless but can't remember which card...

[pethadine82]

Most cards are issued as contactless these days, and it got me thinking that if you have 2 near identical credit cards with the same logo etc but relate to different accounts.
Most blokes keep their card in their wallet, and in the rush you touch in with one card, you get to your destination, or worse still there is RPI check, how do you know which card has been "activated"
How do you prevent double charges on both cards as you could end up with 2 incomplete journeys.


Love to know what your thoughts are. I know the simple answer would be to remember which card you used, but is there another way?

 

[cactustwirly]

Most cards are issued as contactless these days, and it got me thinking that if you have 2 near identical credit cards with the same logo etc but relate to different accounts.
Most blokes keep their card in their wallet, and in the rush you touch in with one card, you get to your destination, or worse still there is RPI check, how do you know which card has been "activated"
How do you prevent double charges on both cards as you could end up with 2 incomplete journeys.


Love to know what your thoughts are. I know the simple answer would be to remember which card you used, but is there another way?

I wouldn't worry about an RPI check, as a bank statement would prove that you correctly paid for your journey.

It's probably best if you only use 1 card for your contactless journeys, which would then remove ambiguity

 

[jon0844]

Best advice really is not to rush, as besides the RPI/penalty fare/MG11 issues, there's also the more likely problem of being charged a maximum cash fare and ending up with cards getting blacklisted.

 

[PeterC]

Slip the card that you are using into an Oyster wallet.

 

[Be3G]

This is actually a real problem to a certain extent: I've got three cards with First Direct, they're all black and look very similar, with two looking identical except for the account details. I use contactless via Apple Pay so have to be very careful that I'm always choosing the same one on my phone for a day's travel!

 

[some bloke]

I know the simple answer would be to remember which card you used, but is there another way?

With a fold-out wallet you could keep a card you use regularly for PAYG in a different flap from the others.

and/or

Stick a big enough label on one or more cards.

 

[Clip]

Stick a big enough label on one or more cards.

Or see if your card provider does different coloured cards for you.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Surely it would go something like this:

RPI: Can we scan your card to see it's been activated?
Pax: Ok, here go *hands over card*
RPI: *scans* This card hasn't been activated
Pax: Ohh, hang on, I have another card that looks very similar, maybe I used that, here *hands over second near identical card*
RPI *scans* Ahh yes, this is the one you used, all seems to be fine, thank you very much

And you both go on your way

 

[kristiang85]

If you have similar looking cards, just put a sticker on one indicating you use that for rail. Or put it in a certain part of your wallet, and only that one goes there.

 

[Clip]

Surely it would go something like this:

RPI: Can we scan your card to see it's been activated?
Pax: Ok, here go *hands over card*
RPI: *scans* This card hasn't been activated
Pax: Ohh, hang on, I have another card that looks very similar, maybe I used that, here *hands over second near identical card*
RPI *scans* Ahh yes, this is the one you used, all seems to be fine, thank you very much

And you both go on your way

Thats not how contactless work im afraid - they only know about the usage at the end of the day or unless it has been blacklisted already AFAIR

 

[swt_passenger]

Surely it would go something like this:

RPI: Can we scan your card to see it's been activated?
Pax: Ok, here go *hands over card*
RPI: *scans* This card hasn't been activated
Pax: Ohh, hang on, I have another card that looks very similar, maybe I used that, here *hands over second near identical card*
RPI *scans* Ahh yes, this is the one you used, all seems to be fine, thank you very much

And you both go on your way

I think your scenario above only works on buses.

 

[PeterC]

When I use a contactless card on the Tube I take it out of my main wallet and carry it separately so that it is more easily accessible at the barrier.

 

[35B]

And I use Apple Pay on my phone, which defaults the card for which I have an account. Although I do have to remember which phone I’m using, dependent on whether my journey is for work or personal use, as they are set to different cards!

 

[causton]

Surely it would go something like this:

RPI: Can we scan your card to see it's been activated?
Pax: Ok, here go *hands over card*
RPI: *scans* This card hasn't been activated
Pax: Ohh, hang on, I have another card that looks very similar, maybe I used that, here *hands over second near identical card*
RPI *scans* Ahh yes, this is the one you used, all seems to be fine, thank you very much

And you both go on your way

On a train I think it would then mark both of the cards the customer presented as 'used' for a journey, so the one that wasn't touched in will receive some sort of penalty charge or potential blacklisting on their TfL contactless account.

 

[najaB]

On a train I think it would then mark both of the cards the customer presented as 'used' for a journey, so the one that wasn't touched in will receive some sort of penalty charge or potential blacklisting on their TfL contactless account.

I'm in no way an expert on Oyster but I think the worst that would happen is that both cards would get charged a maximum fare. If they're registered, it should be possible to call the helpdesk and get the two 'ends' of the journey matched up.

 

[causton]

I'm in no way an expert on Oyster but I think the worst that would happen is that both cards would get charged a maximum fare. If they're registered, it should be possible to call the helpdesk and get the two 'ends' of the journey matched up.

If they were not checked, yes. However if they were inspected, it does not work 100% the same way as an Oyster reader. I am not exactly sure of the technicalities but if a Contactless card is scanned, it is not necessarily instantly known whether it is touched in or not, so if they scan a card that is then found out to not be touched in TfL will presumably apply some sort of penalty to it.

 

[paddington]

I'm in no way an expert on Oyster but I think the worst that would happen is that both cards would get charged a maximum fare. If they're registered, it should be possible to call the helpdesk and get the two 'ends' of the journey matched up.

If they were not checked, yes. However if they were inspected, it does not work 100% the same way as an Oyster reader. I am not exactly sure of the technicalities but if a Contactless card is scanned, it is not necessarily instantly known whether it is touched in or not, so if they scan a card that is then found out to not be touched in TfL will presumably apply some sort of penalty to it.

You're both saying the same thing. The penalty is the maximum fare - the same that would be charged if you used an Oyster and weren't inspected - precisely because it is not known whether the card is touched in.

Both ticket barriers/oyster readers and inspectors merely record the card number and the time, then it is all worked out later.

I continue to use an Oyster because I have many cards, and they all have different uses and different times to be used. By topping up an Oyster I can spend on the card which I need to spend on, at the time I need to spend, rather than having to match this up with my travel. Sometimes I use contactless and then I have to keep hold of the card the entire journey otherwise there is a high risk I will touch out with the wrong card.

 

[some bloke]

Or see if your card provider does different coloured cards for you.

Or paint it, glue a textured surface on it, or after touching in, make a habit of putting the card away in front of or behind the other card(s).

 

[radamfi]

You're both saying the same thing. The penalty is the maximum fare - the same that would be charged if you used an Oyster and weren't inspected - precisely because it is not known whether the card is touched in.

So contactless is a lot safer, as it offers immunisation against prosecution, in case of a technical fault with the Oyster card means that it looks like you didn't touch in.

 

[MotCO]

Surely the other danger of having multiple contactless cards in your wallet is 'card clash' - where more than one card could be read by the barriers.

 

[PermitToTravel]

I just keep the relevant card in my pocket outside my wallet - also means I can get to it more quickly at the other end, and not spend a few seconds looking for it at the gate

 

[causton]

You're both saying the same thing. The penalty is the maximum fare - the same that would be charged if you used an Oyster and weren't inspected - precisely because it is not known whether the card is touched in.

Now I have read back what I wrote, that is correct! I meant to emphasise more on the fact that this could also result in one or both cards being 'blacklisted' if this happens more than once and less about the maximum fare.

 

[yorkie]

Surely it would go something like this:

RPI: Can we scan your card to see it's been activated?
Pax: Ok, here go *hands over card*
RPI: *scans* This card hasn't been activated
Pax: Ohh, hang on, I have another card that looks very similar, maybe I used that, here *hands over second near identical card*
RPI *scans* Ahh yes, this is the one you used, all seems to be fine, thank you very much

And you both go on your way

I am sure it would not.

... and in the rush you touch in with one card, you get to your destination, or worse still there is RPI check, how do you know which card has been "activated"
...

If you do not know, you do not know. An RPI won't know either!

...How do you prevent double charges on both cards as you could end up with 2 incomplete journeys...

If you have incomplete journeys, you can get the helpdesk to resolve that for you.

 

[some bloke]

If you have incomplete journeys, you can get the helpdesk to resolve that for you.

Underground station staff can resolve incomplete journeys.

Edit: ...on Oyster.

 

[jimbo99]

This is akin to a problem I had a few years ago.

Had boarded a train from a station where there was no barrier. Then couldn't remember if I had touched in or not. It was annoying there was no way to know. If I knew I had forgotten, I could have got off and touched the pad at the next station. But in event I had touched in, then this would have been a touch out. I resented the situation where it was impossible to "do the right thing" to be sure I was travelling with a valid ticket. (Well not impossible, I suppose. Could have got off and bought a paper ticket....)

 

[najaB]

I resented the situation where it was impossible to "do the right thing" to be sure I was travelling with a valid ticket.

I'm not sure 'resented' is the right word to use for a situation caused by your own failure to pay attention to what you were doing.

 

[pethadine82]

I have just realised with some banks and mobile phone banking contactless comes under TFL pending and happens pretty quickly. So if you can't remember go to your mobile banking app and it will tell you which account so you can figure out which card.

 

[Stigy]

I wouldn't worry about an RPI check, as a bank statement would prove that you correctly paid for your journey.

It's probably best if you only use 1 card for your contactless journeys, which would then remove ambiguity

All well and good, but if you make the same mistake several times (albeit honestly), the card would be blocked for use on services and you’d find yourself in hot water if said RPI check occurred. Contactless works differently for rail journeys than Oyster Pay as you go does in that you can’t tell “real time” whether a card has been tapped, and when scanned by a Revenue Inspection Device (RID), the card is activated regardless, so at worst you pay twice for your journey if you inadvertently use two cards. If the same thing happens a few times (I won’t say how many ), and it’s activated by a RID, the card is blocked, and staff should report the passenger by way of MG11 or if they’re feeling lenient, a Penalty Fare Notice. The reason it’s not real time is because contactless/apple pay etc has to go in to a back office system, so only updated at the end of the day, not instantly.

I fund it’s easier to physically take the card out of my wallet when I need to use it. I have two similar cards, one is a credit card and one is a debit card. They’re both black but one says credit on it and the other says debit. If I didn’t look closely it would be easy to mistakenly use the wrong one.

 

[MikeWh]

Contactless works differently for rail journeys than Oyster Pay as you go does in that you can’t tell “real time” whether a card has been tapped,

Depends how up-to-date you mean by "real time". If your card is registered on the TfL website then you can see todays journeys on the account dashboard, or alternatively on the TfL app. There is a delay of upto about 15 minutes before a touch will appear, though I find rail touches are usually there in 5 minutes. Buses can take a little longer.

 

[PeterC]

Underground station staff can resolve incomplete journeys.

Still?

Depends how up-to-date you mean by "real time". If your card is registered on the TfL website then you can see todays journeys on the account dashboard, or alternatively on the TfL app. There is a delay of upto about 15 minutes before a touch will appear, though I find rail touches are usually there in 5 minutes. Buses can take a little longer.

I wouldn't describe a five minute lag as "real time".