Contactless from Elizabeth line through to LU

[duncananderson]

Tomorrow I intend to travel from Maidenhead to Belsize Park, using EL to Tottenham Court Road and then LU Northern line.

I can use contactless from Maidenhead (outside the oyster zone), but do I need to touch out and in again at Paddington/Tottenham Court Road? Or can I touch in once at Maidenhead and not touch out until I reach Belsize Park?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[trebor79]

Tomorrow I intend to travel from Maidenhead to Belsize Park, using EL to Tottenham Court Road and then LU Northern line.

I can use contactless from Maidenhead (outside the oyster zone), but do I need to touch out and in again at Paddington/Tottenham Court Road? Or can I touch in once at Maidenhead and not touch out until I reach Belsize Park?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Not sure about TCR but you won't have a choice at Paddington as you have to go through the barriers to get from EL to any other line. I'm pretty sure it's the same at TCR.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I can use contactless from Maidenhead (outside the oyster zone), but do I need to touch out and in again at Paddington/Tottenham Court Road? Or can I touch in once at Maidenhead and not touch out until I reach Belsize Park?

You'll stay on the train at Paddington, so no barrier there, and there's no barrier at Tottenham Court Road within the station, so you won't touch again until you get to Belsize Park, that should work perfectly

 

[sharpinf]

Not sure about TCR but you won't have a choice at Paddington as you have to go through the barriers to get from EL to any other line. I'm pretty sure it's the same at TCR.

Off-topic, however by using the EL to Bakerloo line subway connection at Paddington you can get to the Bakerloo, Circle and District (Praed St) lines without touching out and back in.

 

[Horizon22]

You'll stay on the train at Paddington, so no barrier there, and there's no barrier at Tottenham Court Road within the station, so you won't touch again until you get to Belsize Park, that should work perfectly

Depends if they're getting a GWR train from Maidenhead although their post suggests not.

Tomorrow I intend to travel from Maidenhead to Belsize Park, using EL to Tottenham Court Road and then LU Northern line.

I can use contactless from Maidenhead (outside the oyster zone), but do I need to touch out and in again at Paddington/Tottenham Court Road? Or can I touch in once at Maidenhead and not touch out until I reach Belsize Park?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

You can get straight to the other end at Belsize Park without tapping in again - the interchange at TCR doesn't involve going through barriers.

 

[duncananderson]

Thanks all.

Yes, I'm intending to use the Elizabeth line straight through into the core so no change at Paddington.

The doubt in my mind was around whether it was possible to make one contactless journey from outside the oyster zone through into the classic tfl tube network, but it sounds like it should work, so I'll give it a go.

 

[Horizon22]

Thanks all.

Yes, I'm intending to use the Elizabeth line straight through into the core so no change at Paddington.

The doubt in my mind was around whether it was possible to make one contactless journey from outside the oyster zone through into the classic tfl tube network, but it sounds like it should work, so I'll give it a go.

If you type the details into the single fare finder, you get the following costs, so it's all accounted for:

Peak : £15.90 Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930.

Off Peak: £9.60 At all other times including public holidays.

 

[miklcct]

The doubt in my mind was around whether it was possible to make one contactless journey from outside the oyster zone through into the classic tfl tube network, but it sounds like it should work, so I'll give it a go.

Underground, DLR, National Rail (including Overground, Elizabeth line and other Train Operating Company services) together are considered one single system within the Oyster / contactless boundary when Oyster / contactless is used (except St Pancras - Stratford International on the HS1 which is an island), so you don't touch out and in unless you are forced to, or if you are exiting the station to change trains from another station.

However trams are a separate network (where only touch in is required, but not out) so you always need to touch when changing between heavy rail and tram, i.e. from heavy rail to tram you need to touch out the heavy rail and touch in the tram, and from tram to heavy rail you need to touch in the heavy rail.

 

[Hadders]

As others have said there is absolutely no problem with what the OP is proposing. It's how the contactless system is designed to work.

For completeness the OP could catch a GWR train to Paddington, touch out on the National Rail station, then touch in at the Underground gateline to Euston Square, exit and walk to Euston Underground station and touch in again and travel to Belsize Park. The system would join the three legs of the journey into one charge which would be the same price of £15.90 pean or £9.60 off peak.

 

[fandroid]

As others have said there is absolutely no problem with what the OP is proposing. It's how the contactless system is designed to work.

For completeness the OP could catch a GWR train to Paddington, touch out on the National Rail station, then touch in at the Underground gateline to Euston Square, exit and walk to Euston Underground station and touch in again and travel to Belsize Park. The system would join the three legs of the journey into one charge which would be the same price of £15.90 pean or £9.60 off peak.

Is contactless valid on long-distance GWR trains between Reading and Paddington?

 

[hkstudent]

Is contactless valid on long-distance GWR trains between Reading and Paddington?

That is valid and same fare

 

[fandroid]

That is valid and same fare

Thanks. And how does the evening peak work with contactless? The TOC charges peak fares for Paddington departures between 16.00 and 19.00, except on a few stopping and semifast services. Oyster and, presumably, contactless charge peak fares between IIRC 16.00 and 19.30. Is it a bad idea to use contactless on the western Elizabeth line and on those excepted GWR services in the evening peak?

 

[Watershed]

Thanks. And how does the evening peak work with contactless? The TOC charges peak fares for Paddington departures between 16.00 and 19.00, except on a few stopping and semifast services. Oyster and, presumably, contactless charge peak fares between IIRC 16.00 and 19.30. Is it a bad idea to use contactless on the western Elizabeth line and on those excepted GWR services in the evening peak?

Evening peak contactless fares are charged for journeys touching in between 16:00 and 19:00 (technically there is a slight 'grace period' at either end). So yes, if there are paper tickets that don't bar the use of the service you're intending on catching, then that will likely be the cheapest option.

It's also worth remembering that contactless are charged based on the time of touch in, not any intermediate times (e.g. an OSI at Paddington) or the time of touch out. So if you start your journey at, say, Oxford Circus just before 16:00 then you will benefit from an off-peak fare for the whole of your journey - whereas if you touch in just before 19:00, you will be charged a peak fare even though the majority of your journey is after 19:00.

In the latter situation, it may be cheaper to use different payment cards for each section of your journey so as to prevent the OSI from joining up your journey in such a way that it becomes more expensive. Or of course you could use a paper ticket.

 

[plugwash]

Interestingly though, for the OP's journey the single fare finder makes no mention of an Evening peak, is this an error or is there no evening peak on this journey?

 

[Watershed]

Interestingly though, for the OP's journey the single fare finder makes no mention of an Evening peak, is this an error or is there no evening peak on this journey?

This isn't an error. There is no evening peak for journeys from outside Zone 1 into Zone 1 - see here.

 

[plugwash]

This isn't an error. There is no evening peak for journeys from outside Zone 1 into Zone 1 - see here.

Ah, so there is no evening peak fare from Maidenhead to Belsize Park but there *IS* an evening peak fare from Belsize Park to Maidenhead.

Is it a bad idea to use contactless on the western Elizabeth line and on those excepted GWR services in the evening peak?

The complication is that paper tickets are priced as returns, so you have to consider your overall travel when deciding whether paper or contactless is better.

In the case where the paper ticket doesn't have any relavent evening peak restrictions, then paper is likely better for journeys where the inbound is after the morning peak, but return may be in the oyster/contactless evening peak.

OTOH if your inbound travel is in the morning peak and your return travel may or may not be in the evening peak you are likely better off with contactless.

 

[miklcct]

OP should notice that traditional tickets and PAYG are two completely different systems with different rules, different validity and different fares. None of the reasonings applicable to traditional tickets can be applied into PAYG travel.

For example, in the paper world, National Rail and Tube / DLR are two networks, but in the PAYG world, they are one network; in the paper world, the ticket determines which route and which train you are allowed to take but in the PAYG world, there is no route limitation and the fare charged depends on the time and location of your touches, and the card is valid for travel as long as it is touched in and is within the maximum journey time.

 

[MikeWh]

Interestingly though, for the OP's journey the single fare finder makes no mention of an Evening peak, is this an error or is there no evening peak on this journey?

This isn't an error. There is no evening peak for journeys from outside Zone 1 into Zone 1 - see here.

Almost correct! Remember that Belsize Park is in zone 2 so within zones 1-6 a journey ending there would incur the peak charge in the afternoon. However, all eastbound journeys from outside zone 6 on the GWR mainline are off-peak in the afternoon peak wherever they end.

 

[JonathanH]

Remember that Belsize Park is in zone 2 so within zones 1-6 a journey ending there would incur the peak charge in the afternoon.

...and from outside Zone 6 for anywhere other than the GWR mainline and branches.

(Not obvious why no fares are defined between Thameslink stations and Belsize Park - presumably passengers are expected to walk from Hampstead Heath, rather than circulating via stations further south.)

However, all eastbound journeys from outside zone 6 on the GWR mainline are off-peak in the afternoon peak wherever they end.

Very much an anomaly in Contactless pricing against other routes, and indeed the Elizabeth Line on the east side of London.

 

[MikeWh]

...and from outside Zone 6 for anywhere other than the GWR mainline and branches.

Yes. Tried to over simplify it.

(Not obvious why no fares are defined between Thameslink stations and Belsize Park - presumably passengers are expected to walk from Hampstead Heath, rather than circulating via stations further south.)

It applies to all the Northern line stations between Chalk Farm and Edgware and Thameslink stations from Cricklewood northwards. I guess the lines run so close to each other that no-one would actually make a journey between them.

Very much an anomaly in Contactless pricing against other routes, and indeed the Elizabeth Line on the east side of London.

It's because GWR set the fares and that is what they asked for.