Conwy, Penmaenmawr and Llanfairfechan now compulsory stops?

[splashoutradio]

A query for someone local or someone in the know...

I was recently compiling a timetable for the North Wales Mainline (file attached), and noticed that Conwy, Penmaenmawr and Llanfairfechan are no longer listed as request stops. Personally I think that this makes sense, especially for Conwy which had 52,568 passengers last year and is a tourist destination in it's own right. Additionally, there are times when the conductor is unable to get through the whole train between Llandudno Junction and Bangor to know which stations are being requested.

As I haven't seen anything official regarding this change, I was wondering whether, in practice, these stations are now compulsory calls, or whether it is a data issue?

Thanks

 

[L401CJF]

As of the latest timetable change they are no longer request stops. Hope this helps

 

[trainJam]

I've noticed something locally. In a similar vein, it sems that all of WMR's request stops are no longer marked as request anymore. Anyone know exactly when this changed?

 

[33017]

As L401CJF says, now mandatory stops rather than request.

I remember asking years back why they were requests given it was rare for a train not to call and was told it was a fudge to make the time table work. The minute or two saved allowed tighter Holyhead turn rounds.

 

[Lucy1501]

I've noticed something locally. In a similar vein, it sems that all of WMR's request stops are no longer marked as request anymore. Anyone know exactly when this changed?

It appears that all stops on the Cumbrian Coast bar Nethertown and Braystones have been made standard stops as well. I’m assuming this was part of the December timetable change.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting. The Conwy Valley still has them so they haven't been abolished entirely as a thing.

 

[L401CJF]

Interesting. The Conwy Valley still has them so they haven't been abolished entirely as a thing.

They're still used on the Bangor to Holyhead section too. To be fair it made complete sense to make Conwy/Pen/Llanfairfechan as normal stops anyway, very rare there isn't somebody boarding or alighting at them from my experience. Across Anglesey however it is still quite common to have no requests (and is quite handy for clawing back a few minutes).

 

[richa2002]

Is there some kind of incoming legislation that requires request stops to have a button to alert the driver rather than the old fashioned holding out your hand/arm? If so, a widescale reduction of request stops would reduce the number of stations needing work done to make them compliant.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there some kind of incoming legislation that requires request stops to have a button to alert the driver rather than the old fashioned holding out your hand/arm?

I've not heard of such a thing. ScotRail did it by choice on the Far North because it allows improved running times because some of the stations have very poor sighting.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It appears that all stops on the Cumbrian Coast bar Nethertown and Braystones have been made standard stops as well. I’m assuming this was part of the December timetable change.

Very possibly. In the previous (Summer 2023) timetable, Kirkby-in-Furness, Green Road, Silecroft, Bootle (Cumbria), Drigg, Parton and Flimby were also all listed as request stop stations as well.

 

[mrd269697]

Slightly off topic, but that’s the most easy to read timetable for the North Wales Coast line I’ve seen. The calling patterns aren’t half bizarre.

Conwy should really have an hourly service such is its appeal as a tourist destination. I’m glad it’s not a request stop any more. It would be nice if one day the platforms could be extended slightly so a 3 car train can not rely on single door operation.

Also why are the last trains from Holyhead so early? The last Sunday departure is an hour later than Monday to Saturday.

Also the only day the late night train from Chester to Holyhead fails to run is Saturday.

And also why on a Sunday is there a 4 hour gap for Chester bound services at Shotton (1200-1600)

Such a bizarre service on that line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TBH it's a bit rubbish. It's almost clockface, but not, thus the value of clockface is lost.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Reckon Wikipedia now needs updating to reflect the various recent changes...

Category:Railway request stops in Great Britain - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Flying Snail]

It's the same mess of a timetable the NW coast has been for years with all the same issues.

Wildly inconsistent service pattern, particularly for Hoyhead and Bangor, the most unbalanced times of any line in the country with very early last trains eastward, awful service at Shotton even though it is station connecting with another line, late train carefully timed to miss the ferry connection.

 

[craigybagel]

Conwy should really have an hourly service such is its appeal as a tourist destination. I’m glad it’s not a request stop any more. It would be nice if one day the platforms could be extended slightly so a 3 car train can not rely on single door operation.

Now that the units working the line have ASDO they should be able to open more than one door.

TBH it's a bit rubbish. It's almost clockface, but not, thus the value of clockface is lost.

Hopefully they're waiting for the big TfW recast to fix it.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I've noticed something locally. In a similar vein, it sems that all of WMR's request stops are no longer marked as request anymore. Anyone know exactly when this changed?

December 2022 timetable I think

 

[craigybagel]

December 2022 timetable I think

I think that was down to the use of the ex LO and Chiltern 172s meaning the guards couldn't guarantee getting through a multiple set?

 

[Krokodil]

As of the latest timetable change they are no longer request stops. Hope this helps

Not that anyone bothered to tell the staff, the "R"s just vanished from the diagrams overnight. Whereas when Deganwy became a booked stop there were notices up.

Is there some kind of incoming legislation that requires request stops to have a button to alert the driver rather than the old fashioned holding out your hand/arm? If so, a widescale reduction of request stops would reduce the number of stations needing work done to make them compliant.

Reclassifying request stops isn't a new thing. Many stations on the Borderlands Line used to be request stops but only Hawarden Bridge is left. If trains are routinely stopping everywhere because the station is more popular than it once was, then you'd be better off timetabling on that basis.

And also why on a Sunday is there a 4 hour gap for Chester bound services at Shotton (1200-1600)

Conversely why does the first Up train on a Sunday call at all the request stops (and former request stops) but then run fast from Rhyl to Shotton?

Why is there a three hour gap in the Sunday evening timetable between Llandudno Junction and Llandudno?

If Holyhead-Shrewsbury (and beyond) trains run semi-fast, and Llandudno-Manchester trains call at all stations, why do some of the latter not call, but some of the former do, leaving a 90 minute gap?

I long since came to the conclusion that the timetable was generated by one of those one-armed bandits you used to see in pubs. "Two lemons and a cherry, we'll make that one depart one minute short of the minimum connection..."

 

[Northerngirl]

I think their policy for connections is "good luck mate" I'm sure Shotton had been planed to wind up passengers with it's connection times

 

[The exile]

I think their policy for connections is "good luck mate" I'm sure Shotton had been planed to wind up passengers with it's connection times

Sometimes (and not just in this country) you wonder whether the person doing the planning has ever actually been there and tried it (on a wet day with luggage!)

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I think that was down to the use of the ex LO and Chiltern 172s meaning the guards couldn't guarantee getting through a multiple set?

No, I worked those units back in 2020. Whilst annoying to work, we still had them as request stops at that point.
It was rare that you wouldn't stop at at least 1 on each trip, so I wasn't surprised they changed.

 

[L401CJF]

Not that anyone bothered to tell the staff, the "R"s just vanished from the diagrams overnight. Whereas when Deganwy became a booked stop there were notices up.

Absolutely but let's not get into that discussion!

 

[Llandudno]

You would think that west of Chester it would be fairly straightforward to provide a clock face timetable to/from Llandudno/Holyhead with the occasional Avanti overlaid on top of the base TfW timetable?

Then there would be the opportunity for trains at Bangor to connect into the Traws bus service network and Arriva buses to Caernarfon.

If needs be could trains to/from England be held a few minutes at Chester to provide an easily memorable clock face frequency along the coast?

I doubt many ipeople use Shotton as an interchange despite it being flagged as a key interchange in the ‘north Wales Metro!!’ owing to the infrequent and irregular stopping pattern of north Wales coast trains ….and the ongoing Class 230 debacle on the Borderlands line.

 

[185]

Is there some kind of incoming legislation that requires request stops to have a button to alert the driver rather than the old fashioned holding out your hand/arm?

Sounds like the third rail police from the ORR are pretending to be the request stop police this week.

 

[The exile]

You would think that west of Chester it would be fairly straightforward to provide a clock face timetable to/from Llandudno/Holyhead with the occasional Avanti overlaid on top of the base TfW timetable?

Then there would be the opportunity for trains at Bangor to connect into the Traws bus service network and Arriva buses to Caernarfon.

If needs be could trains to/from England be held a few minutes at Chester to provide an easily memorable clock face frequency along the coast?

I doubt many ipeople use Shotton as an interchange despite it being flagged as a key interchange in the ‘north Wales Metro!!’ owing to the infrequent and irregular stopping pattern of north Wales coast trains ….and the ongoing Class 230 debacle on the Borderlands line.

Last time I did I was by no means the only one - though clearly statistically insignificant if your baseline is Clapham Junction.

 

[Dr Day]

Drifting a bit off-topic and possibly more one for the 'controversial opinions' thread, but sometimes 'clock face' may not actually best serve the markets the railway is trying to serve, or provide the optimal use of relatively scarce resources including track capacity. External factors such as school/college start and end times, ferry times, irregular freight times as well as efficient traincrew and unit diagramming will probably have all played a part in driving the current 'messy' timetable over the years to meet various specific local requirements.

 

[Mordac]

Sounds like the third rail police from the ORR are pretending to be the request stop police this week.

One day they'll work out that if no trains run, no one can be hurt on the railway anymore. The person who realises that will get a run of gongs.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Drifting a bit off-topic and possibly more one for the 'controversial opinions' thread, but sometimes 'clock face' may not actually best serve the markets the railway is trying to serve, or provide the optimal use of relatively scarce resources including track capacity. External factors such as school/college start and end times, ferry times, irregular freight times as well as efficient traincrew and unit diagramming will probably have all played a part in driving the current 'messy' timetable over the years to meet various specific local requirements.

Not in North Wales, its just a messy timetable, large gaps at busy parts of the days, trains that used to connect with Ferries that now dont. Its a real mish mash.

 

[Kite159]

I doubt many ipeople use Shotton as an interchange despite it being flagged as a key interchange in the ‘north Wales Metro!!’ owing to the infrequent and irregular stopping pattern of north Wales coast trains ….and the ongoing Class 230 debacle on the Borderlands line.

Especially since before the timetable changed on the Wrexham - Bidston line the connections at Shotton were a bit crap at times where both a Bidston bound train & Llandudno bound train departed near enough the same time

 

[Krokodil]

Drifting a bit off-topic and possibly more one for the 'controversial opinions' thread, but sometimes 'clock face' may not actually best serve the markets the railway is trying to serve, or provide the optimal use of relatively scarce resources including track capacity. External factors such as school/college start and end times, ferry times, irregular freight times as well as efficient traincrew and unit diagramming will probably have all played a part in driving the current 'messy' timetable over the years to meet various specific local requirements.

There are a few cases where there are genuine reasons (1V94 departs Holyhead earlier than the usual pattern to get the kids to school in Bangor, plus some trains run to Holyhead to meet the boats) but otherwise the timetable is just poorly thought-out. For a start, where the Manchester trains run to Holyhead it's poor to leave substantial gaps in the Llandudno timetable - they should be filled in some way.

There's nothing "efficient" about the current diagramming - though probably more efficient than certain other operators.

Last time I did I was by no means the only one - though clearly statistically insignificant if your baseline is Clapham Junction.

Most of those who do use the interchange will be those who had no choice. Plenty of 59 minute (or similar) connections. The interchange would probably be well used if the timings were more convenient.