Conwy Valley Line - Now Reopened

[ChiefPlanner]

I had a quick go at a timetable...

If you base it around odd:45 from Llandudno (for retail commuters finishing at 1730) you get even:45 from Betws, which would work for commuters both ways. Journey time from Betws to Llandudno is 48 minutes.

So you could have:
dep Betws 0645, 0845, 1045, 1245, 1445, 1645, 1845 and 2045
dep Llandudno Jn 0745, 0945, 1145, 1345, 1545, 1745, 1945

Maybe add a 2145/2245 on a Friday and Saturday evening, and on a Sunday trim the first and last train.

Arrival in Llandudno at 0730 for work is a *bit* early, but I think it's the most workable. I genuinely think that kind of timetable would significantly up usage.

Sir Herbert Walker would you proud of you Sir - i unit and I guess 2 sets of crews (base resources) .....standard pattern and easily marketed ....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sir Herbert Walker would you proud of you Sir - i unit and I guess 2 sets of crews (base resources) .....standard pattern and easily marketed ....

Exactly. I think now would be the time to try it out while the unit/crew are spare. The timings could be shifted slightly if at the moment it'd slightly miss a connection at the Junction, I haven't checked.

Edited to add 0545 from the Junction (or a bit later if limited-stop as at present) unless we are opening a unit factory in Betws and a scrapyard at Llandudno!

Regarding the bottom bit of the line, I imagine some preservationists could be got interested in that (as they presently are beyond Blaenau) provided the reason for closure wasn't a major tunnel collapse.

 

[daodao]

At some point, someone will bite the bullet and close the line for good.
Little used, expensive to maintain rural branch lines and secondary routes can't be sustained for ever.
Other lines in this category include the Central Wales line, the Kyle of Lochalsh and Mallaig lines in Scotland, the Settle and Carlisle line and the Whitby branch.

 

[Gathursty]

At some point, someone will bite the bullet and close the line for good.
Little used, expensive to maintain rural branch lines and secondary routes can't be sustained for ever.
Other lines in this category include the Central Wales line, the Kyle of Lochalsh and Mallaig lines in Scotland, the Settle and Carlisle line and the Whitby branch.

These are regularly classed as some of the most scenic railway lines in the world. At holiday time, I've had to stand in these trains. The Heart of Wales line and Esk Vallley line are lines that do require some ingenuity to make them worthwhile going forward though. Whitby Goth Weekend and the Royal Welsh Show are at best a couple of days boosted figures in a whole year.

 

[philthetube]

These are regularly classed as some of the most scenic railway lines in the world. At holiday time, I've had to stand in these trains. The Heart of Wales line and Esk Vallley line are lines that do require some ingenuity to make them worthwhile going forward though. Whitby Goth Weekend and the Royal Welsh Show are at best a couple of days boosted figures in a whole year.

If you include revenues from the North Yorks Moors Railway the Whitby branch is probably not doing to badly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

These are regularly classed as some of the most scenic railway lines in the world. At holiday time, I've had to stand in these trains. The Heart of Wales line and Esk Vallley line are lines that do require some ingenuity to make them worthwhile going forward though. Whitby Goth Weekend and the Royal Welsh Show are at best a couple of days boosted figures in a whole year.

It would be interesting to see what having knackered the connections with the FfR (they miss by about 5 minutes now) has done to ridership past Betws on the Valley.

I don't know whose fault that was but it was idiotic in the extreme.

Meanwhile you'd cram it full of coach tour parties in the summer if you put Swiss style scenic stock on it. With about 1/3 of a TPH it wouldn't stop it being a basket case, but it'd improve revenues a bit.

 

[furnessvale]

At some point, someone will bite the bullet and close the line for good.
Little used, expensive to maintain rural branch lines and secondary routes can't be sustained for ever.
Other lines in this category include the Central Wales line, the Kyle of Lochalsh and Mallaig lines in Scotland, the Settle and Carlisle line and the Whitby branch.

As long as the same rules are applied to country roads I see no problem. Had that happened during the Beeching era we may have seen a different outcome.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't like to see it go on an emotional level, but I would accept the closure of the southern section *if* it was integrated with a proper regional bus system with unified ticketing (putting a bus stop hidden round the back by the car park and calling it platform 2 does not count). But the UK remains incapable of doing that properly.

If a preserved line took an interest in the bottom bit, all the better - that would mean it would not be totally lost.

The Betws section really needs its service upgrading (see my posts further up) to reduce the number of cars clogging up the National Park.

Other parts of Europe have used this approach - trim the real basket case parts of branches and use the money saved to improve the service on the bits with higher demand.

I don't, however, think you can apply that to the S&C nor the Scottish regional services - they are rather different from short English and Welsh branch lines. Killing off the Kyle line would be nuts, though the Far North Line's economics are much poorer.

 

[daodao]

Killing off the Kyle line would be nuts.

Why? It doesn't serve any significant settlements and is no longer of any use to connect with Hebridean ferries. There are buses from Inverness to Ullapool for the Stornoway ferry, and since the Kyle bridge opened, direct from Inverness to Portree.

 

[AndrewE]

At some point, someone will bite the bullet and close the line for good.
Little used, expensive to maintain rural branch lines and secondary routes can't be sustained for ever.
Other lines in this category include the Central Wales line, the Kyle of Lochalsh and Mallaig lines in Scotland, the Settle and Carlisle line and the Whitby branch.

See, it didn't take long for someone to come along and propose closures did it? There is a real (if unquantifiable) value to having a unified network - as was found out with the Beeching bustitutions.

 

[PHILIPE]

Reopened today as hoped

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What were the actual infrastructural works carried out during this latest line closure?

 

[snowball]

Press release

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds/conwy-valley-line-reopens-following-recent-storm-damage/

The Conwy Valley line reopened to passengers today, Monday 13 November, after Network Rail engineers carried out extensive repairs following recent storm damage.

The line closed on Friday 20 October following damage reported in the Blaenau Ffestiniog tunnel, the longest of its kind in the UK. This October saw more than average rain fall in Blaenau Ffestiniog, causing more water to enter the tunnel than usual and damaging a structural pillar inside.

Due to the extremely hard rock, natural features and natural water courses through the tunnel walls, Network Rail tunnel and mining specialists were drafted in for the repair work.

Network Rail engineers and contract partners AMCO installed scaffolding within the tunnel to hold an estimated 28 tonnes of rock whilst the damaged pillar was dismantled and rebuilt.

Essential repair work was also necessary on other parts of the line, near Glan Conwy and the Bertheos and Roman Bridge Tunnels.

Chris Howchin, route programme manager for Network Rail in Wales and the Borders, said: “Our engineers worked 24/7 to repair the Blaenau Ffestiniog tunnel after damage caused by recent storms.

“The Conwy Valley line is a vital link for local people and important for economic growth in the area, so we worked hard to reopen the railway as soon as it was safe to do so.

“We worked closely with Arriva Trains Wales to keep passengers moving with rail replacement buses during the closure, and I would like to thank passengers for their patience while this essential repair work took place.”

Lynne Milligan, Customer Services Director for Arriva Trains Wales added: “We are delighted that the line is now reopening for our customers and we thank them for their patience.

“Ultimately passenger safety is our first consideration so it was essential that these repairs be carried out.

“We have worked closely with our partners in Network Rail to ensure disruption to customers is kept to a minimum.”

 

[PHILIPE]

There has been very heavy rail in North Wales today so I'll leave the remaining info to one's imagination. Hopefully re-open tomorrow.

 

[6Gman]

Press release

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds/conwy-valley-line-reopens-following-recent-storm-damage/

"More than average" rain in Blaenau Ffestiniog is a pretty intimidating concept!

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Still closed......

https://www.journeycheck.com/arrivatrainswales/

Cancellations to services between Llandudno Junction and Blaenau Ffestiniog

Due to heavy rain flooding the railway between Llandudno Junction and Blaenau Ffestiniog the single line line is blocked.
Impact
Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 12:00 23/11.
Customer Advice
Network Rail report multiple incidents of flooding along this route.
Replacement road transport services are conveying passengers between Llandudno Junction and Blaenau Ffestiniog via North Llanrwst in both directions until further notice. Replacement buses supplied by Llew Jones

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not again I was thinking of a possible ride this weekend.

 

[John S2]

The intensity of these type of rainfall events is increasing due to man made global warming. It is important that this is recognised in order that money is spent on long term improvements that are robust rather than a succession of repairs that will only fail again in future. I don't know to what extent Network Rail are changing their way of working to address this change to our climate. We are actually quite lucky in Britain as the effects are not as bad as some parts of the world.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Blaenau Ffestiniog to Llandudno Junction line closed until 27th November is the message currently showing on CIS screens.

 

[edwin_m]

The intensity of these type of rainfall events is increasing due to man made global warming. It is important that this is recognised in order that money is spent on long term improvements that are robust rather than a succession of repairs that will only fail again in future. I don't know to what extent Network Rail are changing their way of working to address this change to our climate. We are actually quite lucky in Britain as the effects are not as bad as some parts of the world.

They're certainly talking the talk in various documents, on this and on the related issue of earthworks that date from Victorian times and are tending to fail due to some combination of age, poor construction originally and increased rainfall. I very much doubt they have enough funding to do all the things they migth wish to.

 

[gazthomas]

"More than average" rain in Blaenau Ffestiniog is a pretty intimidating concept!

It only ever rains there, what’s new!

 

[Bletchleyite]

They're certainly talking the talk in various documents, on this and on the related issue of earthworks that date from Victorian times and are tending to fail due to some combination of age, poor construction originally and increased rainfall. I very much doubt they have enough funding to do all the things they migth wish to.

With regard to the Conwy Valley they did install additional culverts and the likes a while ago, and indeed there have been fewer instances of serious damage (washed away embankments etc) than before. I don't doubt that the replacement pillar in the tunnel will similarly be stronger than the old one.

 

[edwin_m]

With regard to the Conwy Valley they did install additional culverts and the likes a while ago, and indeed there have been fewer instances of serious damage (washed away embankments etc) than before. I don't doubt that the replacement pillar in the tunnel will similarly be stronger than the old one.

I get the impression that when Network Rail do a job like this they do it properly. The problem is more that thre are so many places where problems might occur, nobody can attend to all of them before they happen and probably nobody has much idea of which one to tackle next, until it shows imminent signs of distress. And many (almost all) other places are likely to have higher priority than the Conwy Valley.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This line is a victim of its geographical environs and of the normal weather system that is to be found in areas such as this.

 

[daikilo]

According to NR the issue is actually stock availability.

 

[PHILIPE]

According to NR the issue is actually stock availability.

Where did Network Rail say this ? NRE indicates that line is now clear, however. There would be some units not available to traffic due to being trapped on Anglesey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where did Network Rail say this ? NRE indicates that line is now clear, however. There would be some units not available to traffic due to being trapped on Anglesey.

Can't see why a 153 would be there. Doesn't it live at Chester?

 

[PHILIPE]

Can't see why a 153 would be there. Doesn't it live at Chester?

153s haven't worked the Conwy Valley for about 7 or 8 years. It is a 150 which would not be trapped on Anglesey but working trains eastwards from Bangor due to other units trapped.

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW Journey check confirms shortage of serviceable units and at the same time using their silly non-meaning term "Ongoing Operational challenges" .

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose to be fair if you have to bustitute due to lack of stock the Valley is a good choice as a bus can pretty much keep time and demand is low.