Conwy Valley Line - Now Reopened

[Bletchleyite]

Not making a lot of sense, where is the train that meets the 9.55 bus from Dolgarrog at North Llanrwst at 10.00?

That has so many errors in it it's difficult to know where to start... I think a reproofing is required, particularly with regard to the second table which doesn't contain *any* service at Dolgarrog.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

That has so many errors in it it's difficult to know where to start... I think a reproofing is required, particularly with regard to the second table which doesn't contain *any* service at Dolgarrog.

Absolutely, I replied before checking the rest. Bit of a shambles isn't it.

Real time trains seems to have it about right

 

[krus_aragon]

Not making a lot of sense, where is the train that meets the 9.55 bus from Dolgarrog at North Llanrwst at 10.00?

While I take your point, passengers wanting to travel northbound (who are used to the current rail and rail replacement timetables) would turn up at Dolgarrog at 0916 instead.

Real time trains seems to have it about right

There's the problem that RTT shows the reinstated Llanrwst North - Llandudno services calling at Dolgarrog. :/

 

[splashoutradio]

The Dolgarrog bit was my bad. The timetable was creatied using NR data and the standard timetable peramiters, which under normal use only needs to show departures and not arrivals. This has been corrected now though.

The lack of connection with the 10:10 bus from North Llanwrst does show the same on RTT. Not sure if it has anything to do with a wish to use the same vehicle on the return journey from Blaenau at 11:20 and making the connection at NLR?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

While I take your point, passengers wanting to travel northbound (who are used to the current rail and rail replacement timetables) would turn up at Dolgarrog at 0916 instead.



There's the problem that RTT shows the reinstated Llanrwst North - Llandudno services calling at Dolgarrog. :/

I don't think you do take my point, the buses are meant to match up with the trains at North Llanrwst. There isn't a train to meet the bus that leaves for Bleanau from North Llanrwst at 10.00.

The train arrives at 10.48 and has no bus to meet as it left an hour previously, so according to that timetable anyone arriving at North Llanrwst on that train would have to wait until 13.50 for the next bus...…...if that timetable is to be believed which I highly doubt.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could well be the case. Realistically there is unlikely to be a passenger at Dolgarrog for that service anyway; it has little purpose other than going for a walk, which wouldn't have you originating there around 9am.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Well I think it could cause issues if someone at Llandudno jumps on the 10.08 hoping to get to Blaenau, I bet station staff will tell them to just get on the train to North Llanrwst and get the waiting bus. But there wont be one, not until 14.00 will the next bus to Blaenau leaves. 3 hours in Llanrwst if the weather isn't good wont be a barrel of laughs.

Having a RRB that isn't actually replacing anything just departing at N Llanrwst 10.00 randomly without meeting anything seems truly bizarre.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well I think it could cause issues if someone at Llandudno jumps on the 10.08 hoping to get to Blaenau, I bet station staff will tell them to just get on the train to North Llanrwst and get the waiting bus. But there wont be one, not until 14.00 will the next bus to Blaenau leaves. 3 hours in Llanrwst if the weather isn't good wont be a barrel of laughs.

Having a RRB that isn't actually replacing anything just departing at N Llanrwst 10.00 randomly without meeting anything seems truly bizarre.

It does on the face of it, but without knowing the actual travel demands it's hard to say whether it might actually be useful.

 

[splashoutradio]

There's the problem that RTT shows the reinstated Llanrwst North - Llandudno services calling at Dolgarrog. :/

Rather alarmingly, this is an error in the actual Network Rail data, and if you do a journey plan from Dolgarrog to Llandudno Junction on National Rail enquiries, it shows a direct train as an option. The only reason it isn't shown on the attached PDF is because I've removed them manually...

 

[krus_aragon]

I don't think you do take my point, the buses are meant to match up with the trains at North Llanrwst. There isn't a train to meet the bus that leaves for Bleanau from North Llanrwst at 10.00.

The train arrives at 10.48 and has no bus to meet as it left an hour previously, so according to that timetable anyone arriving at North Llanrwst on that train would have to wait until 13.50 for the next bus...…...if that timetable is to be believed which I highly doubt.

It seems I am confused.

Journeys from where to where did you have in mind, exactly?

If (as I suspect) you are looking at journeys between Dolgarrog and Llandudno, doubling back at Llanrwst doesn't work.

A passenger wanting to travel northbound from Dolgarrog, basing their travel on tomorrow's timetable will be caught out by that impractical doubleback, I agree with you there. But given how little publicity there's been about the new timetable, I'd expect passengers to either turn up at 0925 for the current through bus replacement service, or at 0916 for the reinstated rail service that apparently calls there (according to RTT and National Rail). The terminating bus from Blaenau will arrive at Dolgarrog at 0905 for a layover until 0955. I'd hope the driver could either call TfW to get a minicab for a passenger that's stood knocking at their door, or (if contracted) take them to Llandudno Jn for a connecting service. With the current state of the platform, no passengers will stand there expecting a train!

Travelling southbound to Dolgarrog looks trickier. I think the most likely ocurrence is that the passenger would be overcarried to Llanrwst North, where the guard could arrange minicab transport back to Dolgarrog.

This hasn't been publicised very well yet, for the "one man and his dog" that use the line on an average day. I can see how this could work relatively smoothly in practice, assuming that there are plans in hand. But as has been discussed, Dolgarrog station isn't very convenient for the village, and most locals will be using the ~hourly 19 bus service on their doorstep instead.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

It seems I am confused.

Journeys from where to where did you have in mind, exactly?

If (as I suspect) you are looking at journeys between Dolgarrog and Llandudno, doubling back at Llanrwst doesn't work.

A passenger wanting to travel northbound from Dolgarrog, basing their travel on tomorrow's timetable will be caught out by that impractical doubleback, I agree with you there. But given how little publicity there's been about the new timetable, I'd expect passengers to either turn up at 0925 for the current through bus replacement service, or at 0916 for the reinstated rail service that apparently calls there (according to RTT and National Rail). The terminating bus from Blaenau will arrive at Dolgarrog at 0905 for a layover until 0955. I'd hope the driver could either call TfW to get a minicab for a passenger that's stood knocking at their door, or (if contracted) take them to Llandudno Jn for a connecting service. With the current state of the platform, no passengers will stand there expecting a train!

Travelling southbound to Dolgarrog looks trickier. I think the most likely ocurrence is that the passenger would be overcarried to Llanrwst North, where the guard could arrange minicab transport back to Dolgarrog.

This hasn't been publicised very well yet, for the "one man and his dog" that use the line on an average day. I can see how this could work relatively smoothly in practice, assuming that there are plans in hand. But as has been discussed, Dolgarrog station isn't very convenient for the village, and most locals will be using the ~hourly 19 bus service on their doorstep instead.

Sorry for any confusion if i wasnt very clear. What I was looking at was someone wishing to travel South from Llandudno to Blaenau ffestiniog on the 10.08 from Llandudno. Would expect a bus to be waiting to take them from North Llanrwst onwards to Blaenau as happens with all the other trains.
But there wouldn't be one as it left almost an hour earlier without there being a train there for it to pick any passengers up from. So why is that bus running at all? Why not at 10.50 ish when the train arrives?

Anyone who actually got on the 10.08 from Llandudno for Blaenau would be stuck in Llanrwst until the next bus which doesn't depart until 14.00

 

[krus_aragon]

Sorry for any confusion if i wasnt very clear. What I was looking at was someone wishing to travel South from Llandudno to Blaenau ffestiniog on the 10.08 from Llandudno. Would expect a bus to be waiting to take them from North Llanrwst onwards to Blaenau as happens with all the other trains.
But there wouldn't be one as it left almost an hour earlier without there being a train there for it to pick any passengers up from. So why is that bus running at all? Why not at 10.50 ish when the train arrives?

Anyone who actually got on the 10.08 from Llandudno for Blaenau would be stuck in Llanrwst until the next bus which doesn't depart until 14.00

Ah, I've now found the source of my confusion. I hadn't noticed that there wasn't a southbound bus to connect with 2D14. That is indeed bad scheduling, as the 10:08 tends to have a fair number of holiday daytrippers heading down the valley.

The replacement bus timings mean that a northbound bus has to leave Blaenau before the southbound bus arrives there, in order to connect with the train service. It seems that this bus heads down early at 09:55 in order to work a northbound bus service connecting with the 12:10 northbound train from North Llanrwst. This sacrifices the connection with the 10:08 (as you tried to explain to me) in order to work both legs with one bus. (Don't ask me why they chose the one leg over the other.)

Timetables for Saturday and Monday (on RTT) shows a bus going south from Dolgarrog at the correct time of 10:42, though the train service hasn't been curtailed at North Llanrwst yet. Given that the school term finishes this week, I'm going to guess that the local bus firms weren't able to meet TfW's requirements for the new replacement bus service until the kids are on holiday.

 

[172006]

Today the National Rail journey planner has two recorded messages for the line. One is "buses replace trains between North Llanrwst and Blaenau FFestiniog until Wednesday 24 July," the other is the old one "Buses replace trains between Llandudno Junction and Blaenau Ffestiniog..."
Edit - not anymore

 

[Welshman]

It all seems very muddled at present.
A search on TfW's website for journeys from Llandudno to Blaenau Ffestiniog makes no mention of any train/bus combination. Rather it comes up with "No tickets are available"

 

[Belperpete]

It all seems very muddled at present.
A search on TfW's website for journeys from Llandudno to Blaenau Ffestiniog makes no mention of any train/bus combination. Rather it comes up with "No tickets are available"

Unfortunately that is often the case where replacement buses are run. It can make buying a ticket in advance difficult.

 

[Welshman]

Unfortunately that is often the case where replacement buses are run. It can make buying a ticket in advance difficult.

I take your point - even though I was trying for the 1308 today!!!

They are perhaps updating their website as I write -
The Journey-Check says trains now running to North Llanrwst, but the replacement bus timetable still shows the full bus service from Llandudno.

 

[172006]

I take your point - even though I was trying for the 1308 today!!!

They are perhaps updating their website as I write -
The Journey-Check says trains now running to North Llanrwst, but the replacement bus timetable still shows the full bus service from Llandudno.

You're right. Their phone system isn't announcing the old message anymore.

 

[6Gman]

Surely only to visit Plas Maenan or to take a walk? There really is nothing close or worth visiting and with 612 visitors per year at the last count, I think if the costs were higher than they probably will be there could be a genuine case for closure.

In all my times travelling up and down the valley (of which there have been many as a Conwy lad) I'm not sure we have ever stopped at Dolgarrog while I have been on board. If we did it was literally once or twice in 30 odd years.

I was once on a train which picked up c.20 passengers at Dolgarrog!

It was, perhaps unsurprisingly, a troop of scouts.

 

[splashoutradio]

There were a number of timetable changes uploaded to Network Rail's timetable data system in the early hours of this morning.
There is still the erronerous issue of displaying trains as stopping at Dolgarrog, but timetable data for the weekend is now available and bus connections have improved, which will no doubt please Y Ddraig Coch
The lack of any publicly available timetable is a bit frustrating though. Here's my (very unofficial) compilation based on this mornings data: HERE

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I'm not sure if there are any TSR's on the line but pretty much all the services up and down the valley have been late today. The most recent 13.08 from Llandudno leaving 7 late.

Even the one down the valley at 05.30 this morning was late.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was once on a train which picked up c.20 passengers at Dolgarrog!

It was, perhaps unsurprisingly, a troop of scouts.

I've probably doubled the passenger count at Cheddington one Saturday by a similar means

Unfortunately that is often the case where replacement buses are run. It can make buying a ticket in advance difficult.

Could the zero-minute connection from train to bus (presumably it actually waits) be causing an issue here?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

After every service being late so far today, it would appear the below service made it from North Llanrwst to Llandudno Junction in 4 minutes. Good going in a 150

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P71014/2019/07/18/advanced

 

[pdeaves]

After every service being late so far today, it would appear the below service made it from North Llanrwst to Llandudno Junction in 4 minutes. Good going in a 150

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P71014/2019/07/18/advanced

Please excuse the silly question, but how did you make that four minutes? 24 maybe?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

When I posted that it showed it arrived at junction approx 36 early and had done the journey in 4 mins. Clearly been updated since I posted it

 

[GCRS]

At 7.20 this morning here is the first train to call at Glan Conwy since March. Five minutes late as others have noted. Nice to seem them back anyway.

 

[Belperpete]

Could the zero-minute connection from train to bus (presumably it actually waits) be causing an issue here?

I think it is more likely an issue with the buses not being entered on the database, so the journey planner can't see the buses. I regularly have this problem during work on MML when there are replacement buses for part of my journey, making it impossible to buy tickets on-line as all on-line ticket retailers require you to specify at least the outward journey. It means the only way of buying a ticket is at the station (where facilities exist) or on the train. Looking on the bright side, I suppose it deters too many people using the replacement buses.

 

[Belperpete]

At 7.20 this morning here is the first train to call at Glan Conwy since March.

Oh, carefully worded! I was going to ask what about the outbound service, but then I spotted that doesn't stop at GC.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At 7.20 this morning here is the first train to call at Glan Conwy since March. Five minutes late as others have noted. Nice to seem them back anyway.

Great photograph. By stylising that you could do a great classic railway poster.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh, carefully worded! I was going to ask what about the outbound service, but then I spotted that doesn't stop at GC.

The early outbound is really an ECS that might as well stop at a few stations as it has both driver and guard. I doubt it's busy.

 

[GCRS]

Great photograph. By stylising that you could do a great classic railway poster.

Thank you, though looking at it again the horizon isn't very straight at all. In my defence it was early and I was leaning out of a window.