Coronavirus precautions: Has the world gone mad?

[kylemore]

I think there's a number of possible interpretations of for the change, among them:

• Further understanding of the spread of the novel virus,
• Decreasing conformance to social distancing guidelines,
• A desire to accelerate the decay phase, or
• Providing time to normalize masks in many environments prior to making them mandatory more widely.

That's by no means an exhaustive list. It is worthwhile pointing out however that the UK has some of the lowest rates of mask wearing in Europe which may well be related to the comparatively high rates of death we still have for how long we are after the first deaths. If people in most of Europe can wear masks, if those around at-risk people can wear masks year round, you too can wear a mask.

The high rate of death in the UK was and is down solely to the criminal neglect of the care homes both north and south of the border.

 

[adc82140]

Don't forget as well most countries are reporting hospital deaths only. France reports hospital and care home deaths, but not those in the community at large.

 

[talldave]

I think there's a number of possible interpretations of for the change, among them:

• Further understanding of the spread of the novel virus,
• Decreasing conformance to social distancing guidelines,
• A desire to accelerate the decay phase, or
• Providing time to normalize masks in many environments prior to making them mandatory more widely.

You can't accelerate something towards zero if it's already there. The queues, miles of floor tape and lorry loads of perspex have apparently made supermarkets safe. Adding pointless masks to the mix doesn't take us beyond safe.

 

[kylemore]

You have one of the medical exemptions, I assume? In which case you are exempted and don't need to wear one.

If you just don't like them, though, that's different, yes you can, you just have to accept some discomfort or change your shopping/travel habits.

However what if you have researched this matter - unlike the mask enthusiasts - and discover the real harm to your health you are risking by compliance in a measure which has no proven effectiveness?

I am keeping my retail activity to an absolute minimum however when I do have to go into a supermarket or big shop (small independent shops are completely out) I deal with it by constant fiddling with the mask in which I contrive to keep it away from my nose as much as possible and indeed in the quieter aisles lower it below the nose just popping it up when I think I'm under observation. In this way I can minimise harm to myself in the full knowledge I am putting nobody at risk and frustrate the wishes of the mask enthusiasts who apparently wish to harm people's health.

 

[Bayum]

You may be interested in reading this article which claims that Smallpox was not eliminated by vaccination...

I really hope you don’t believe this.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I really hope you don’t believe this.

After reading more widely, no, I don’t

 

[Scrotnig]

You have one of the medical exemptions, I assume? In which case you are exempted and don't need to wear one.

That's fine except I don't want to be endlessly explaining my medical history to rude shop security people and worse still, public vigilantes. It gets old very quickly and half the time you are not believed.

If it becomes mandatory then I simply won't be able to go in shops, just as I cannot go on public transport.

 

[adc82140]

If a member of shop security asks your medical history ask for their SIA number and report them.

My professional role involves the legalities regarding medical records etc. I'm infuriated that it's becoming expected that people should give out such information to individuals who have no right to know it.

A hospital worker with full IT access to medical records is always keylogged, and can be disciplined for accessing the records of a patient they are not directly involved in the care of. That's how strict it is.

 

[Enthusiast]

You have one of the medical exemptions, I assume?

It's also important to note that five of the seven "reasonable excuses" (a list that is not exhaustive) for not wearing a face covering are not medically related.

 

[clickety-clack]

Looks like it came from America, with the style of language. Agreed, anyone posting stuff like that gets a block from me.

More likely Australia - Dan Andrews (mentioned in the 2nd to last line) is the Premier of Victoria.

 

[scotrail158713]

Don't forget as well most countries are reporting hospital deaths only. France reports hospital and care home deaths, but not those in the community at large.

Exactly. The nature of the way we’ve counted deaths means we'll have one of the highest death rates.

 

[island]

If a member of shop security asks your medical history ask for their SIA number and report them.

Shop security are not required to hold SIA cards (if employed by the shop) or show them to members of the public (if contracted).

 

[BJames]

I see the second wave messaging has returned. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ter-covid-19-second-wave-in-uk-must-start-now

Britain must start “intense preparations” for a second wave of coronavirus that has the potential to kill as many as 120,000 hospital patients in a worst case scenario, experts have warned.

Senior doctors and scientists convened by the Academy of Medical Sciences said on Tuesday that, without urgent action, a resurgence of cases this winter could overwhelm the NHS when services are already stretched because of flu and other seasonal pressures.

The experts were commissioned by Sir Patrick Vallance, the government’s chief scientific adviser, to model a “reasonable worst case scenario” for Covid-19 this winter. Their report, which has been shared with ministers and local health authorities, calls for immediate efforts to prepare for a second wave.

Compiled by 37 experts, the report stresses the worst case scenario is not a prediction of what is likely to happen, but a description of how the outbreak may evolve if infections are allowed to surge and little is done to prepare the NHS and social care services.

“The modelling suggests that deaths could be higher with a new wave of Covid-19 this winter, but the risk of this happening could be reduced if we take action immediately,” said Stephen Holgate, chair of the expert group and professor of immunopharmacology at the University of Southampton.

“With relatively low numbers of Covid-19 cases at the moment, this is a critical window of opportunity to help us prepare for the worst that winter can throw at us.”

The virus may bounce back in the winter as the weather and dark evenings force people to spend more time indoors. In the summer, it is easier to keep homes and offices ventilated with open windows which allow breezes to replenish stale air.

The reasonable worst case scenario assumes that the R value, the average number of people an infected person passes the disease on to, roughly doubles from around 0.9 in England today to 1.7 across the UK in September.

The modelling suggests hospital admissions and deaths would peak in January and February 2021 with a similar number of deaths as in the first wave.

The modelling excludes deaths in care homes and the community, assumes no government intervention to prevent transmission, and does not factor in the use of dexamethasone, a drug recently shown to save lives in intensive care units.

So this great study doesn't:
1. Consider the fact that the "similar number of deaths in the first wave" is nowhere near 120,000
2. Consider dexamethasone for some reason - it's been proven to reduce deaths, I appreciate we don't know by how much but for worst-case scenario planning, at least take the lowest figure and factor that in!

 

[Journeyman]

I've given up on the Guardian. Its constant doom-mongering is ridiculous. So far austerity, the climate crisis and Brexit are meant to have killed us all, so here's coronavirus to finish the job.

 

[Scrotnig]

I've given up on the Guardian. Its constant doom-mongering is ridiculous. So far austerity, the climate crisis and Brexit are meant to have killed us all, so here's coronavirus to finish the job.

See also the BBC, who ought to be above this. Today they are telling us over 150,000 could die from Covid-19 this winter.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

See also the BBC, who ought to be above this. Today they are telling us over 150,000 could die from Covid-19 this winter.

Could being the operative word!

 

[talldave]

See also the BBC, who ought to be above this. Today they are telling us over 150,000 could die from Covid-19 this winter.

Which is about the number of people who would die anyway. And since nobody appears to die of anything other than Covid these days, it all sounds like nothing to worry about.

 

[birchesgreen]

Apparently at my work place for those that have returned from WFH (thankfully not me yet but i'm sure it will be soon), you have to use hand sanitizer when you enter the building and then go to the toilet to wash your hands for 20 seconds. Dumb.

 

[adc82140]

See also the BBC, who ought to be above this. Today they are telling us over 150,000 could die from Covid-19 this winter.

Did they actually say "from" rather than "with". If so a call to viewer complaints would be in order.

 

[alex397]

I've given up on the Guardian. Its constant doom-mongering is ridiculous. So far austerity, the climate crisis and Brexit are meant to have killed us all, so here's coronavirus to finish the job.

See also the BBC, who ought to be above this. Today they are telling us over 150,000 could die from Covid-19 this winter.

Perhaps try the Daily Express instead then! To them, austerity and Brexit are the best things to ever happen.

The BBC is reporting what a report requested by the UK chief scientific advisor says.

To be honest the BBC and Guardian have been largely focussing on the negatives. But so have most other mainstream media outlets. Which is why I don’t completely trust the media, and take what they say with a pinch of salt.

 

[alex397]

Apparently at my work place for those that have returned from WFH (thankfully not me yet but i'm sure it will be soon), you have to use hand sanitizer when you enter the building and then go to the toilet to wash your hands for 20 seconds. Dumb.

To be honest that sounds sensible. It means you’re not touching anything with dirty hands while on the way to the toilets.

 

[birchesgreen]

To be honest that sounds sensible. It means you’re not touching anything with dirty hands while on the way to the toilets.

Or you are touching surfaces for no reason.

 

[DB]

Perhaps try the Daily Express instead then! To them, austerity and Brexit are the best things to ever happen.

The BBC is reporting what a report requested by the UK chief scientific advisor says.

To be honest the BBC and Guardian have been largely focussing on the negatives. But so have most other mainstream media outlets. Which is why I don’t completely trust the media, and take what they say with a pinch of salt.

The trouble is, it effectively acts as a feedback loop and the more "news" reports like this (on Radio 3 this morning, the first report was masks in shops and the second was this 'second wave' doom-mongering), the more paranoid a section of the population becomes, and the more vocal they become that the government must "do something", hence we see things like masks on trains, and now in shops, and the claim that there is now stronger evidence that this works (as also stated on the news this morning). As anyone who has actually read the published scientific papers will be aware, this is not the case and it's still the same as it was - i.e. there is weak evidence that it might have a small impact, but nothing more conclusive than that. There is also a tendancy to compare apples with oranges, and claim that papers which show a beneficial effect of masks in domestic situations are relevant to shops - which they aren't as the time spent in close proximity and the level of interaction is completely different.

What is worst about all this madness is is that it is now completely unfocussed and unmonitored. Why wear masks? How is any beneficial effect, or otherwise, being measured, how long will it go on? What will the effect be on the economy. None of this seems to have been considered in yet another knee-jerk reaction to try to claim that they are "doing something", and provide the "clarity" which Labour have been demanding. Probably not wanting to be out-done by Nicola Sturgeon also played a part.

 

[Journeyman]

See also the BBC, who ought to be above this. Today they are telling us over 150,000 could die from Covid-19 this winter.

I think this is making it blindingly obvious that mask wearing will go on into the flu season, and into next year.

 

[Scrotnig]

I think this is making it blindingly obvious that mask wearing will go on into the flu season, and into next year.

Mask wearing will be a minimum of a year. It will likely become permanent, the excuse being that it will protet against a multitude of other issues like flu. Rubbish though that is.

 

[BJames]

Mask wearing will be a minimum of a year. It will likely become permanent, the excuse being that it will protet against a multitude of other issues like flu. Rubbish though that is.

I can't see it ever being "enforced" permanently - most people I've seen online are just doing it because they think it'll get rid of covid quicker. It's already been proven not to impede flus etc, and even the media has been forced to recognise that it's such a change from what we're used to and takes a lot more effort to encourage everyone to wear one. It won't protect against other issues, and I've heard the comparison to Asian cultures a lot - remember that Covid started in Asia and spread from there. It's not exactly like they've all put on a mask and there's been no transmission. And they don't just have "no diseases" in Asia - every country in the world has multiple viruses being passed around constantly.

 

[Scrotnig]

I can't see it ever being "enforced" permanently - most people I've seen online are just doing it because they think it'll get rid of covid quicker. It's already been proven not to impede flus etc, and even the media has been forced to recognise that it's such a change from what we're used to and takes a lot more effort to encourage everyone to wear one. It won't protect against other issues, and I've heard the comparison to Asian cultures a lot - remember that Covid started in Asia and spread from there. It's not exactly like they've all put on a mask and there's been no transmission. And they don't just have "no diseases" in Asia - every country in the world has multiple viruses being passed around constantly.

That's logic though. Logic will not be used. This is about control. Masks are here to stay.

 

[adc82140]

They also forget that a lot of the mask wearing in Asia is actually to protect against the horrendous levels of pollution, not viruses

 

[bramling]

I think this is making it blindingly obvious that mask wearing will go on into the flu season, and into next year.

That does assume people don’t tire of it. The hardcore mask supporters may not, but the “do it to keep the peace” types certainly will over time. Or perhaps that’s just wishful thinking on my part!

 

[Skymonster]

See also the BBC, who ought to be above this. Today they are telling us over 150,000 could die from Covid-19 this winter.

BBC is just regurgitating the ongoing doom-mongering from the scientific advisors.

The reality is that 150,000 extra deaths is a 25% rise on normal annual death rates. It is totally illogical to wreck the economy and place onerous restrictions on more than 66 million people for something that has such a low impact. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.