Coronavirus.

[Bletchleyite]

I was thinking any "residue" if there is any would need to be washed off with soap and water rather than hand sanitizer.

Too much, er, information

 

[Darandio]

I realise politicians have seriously difficulty telling the truth at the best of times but this beggars belief.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51769184

Supermarkets have cast doubts on an assurance from the health secretary that food supplies would not be disrupted by the coronavirus outbreak.

On Thursday, Matt Hancock said: "We are working with the supermarkets to make sure that, if people are self-isolating, then we will be able to get the food and supplies that they need."

But supermarket sources said they had not discussed getting food to homes.

One executive said he was "baffled" by the suggestions.

An executive told BBC business editor Simon Jack: "Matt Hancock has totally made up what he said about working with supermarkets. We haven't heard anything from government directly."

He added that sales of cupboard basics such as pasta and tinned goods have "gone through the roof".

While the supermarket was largely keeping up with demand, teams were working "round the clock" to keep shelves stocked, he said.

"We are using processes and staffing levels we set up in case of a no-deal Brexit."

The executive added: "While I think people don't need to panic buy and should just shop normally, I'm not sure the government can guarantee all food supply in all instances."

There was no suggestion that there were food shortages, but people bringing forward some purchases was creating logistical challenges, he said.

 

[Grumpy Git]

... but to bludgeon the point home again, it wasn't treated as a headline news item.

I'd give the BBC aa

(I'm going to have to get a new bludgeon at this rate )

I see many still don't understand this virus.

1) It's believed by most professionals to be substantially more infectious than the flu

2) Many more who contract need hospital treatment than the flu. The NHS doesn't have capacity. People with other diseases/illnesses will be competing for scarce beds

3) Even if nations can contain it and prevent huge hospital pressure, that comes at a huge financial cost through containment

Just as we annoy immigrants who by an large prop-up the NHS.

I realise politicians have seriously difficulty telling the truth at the best of times but this beggars belief.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51769184

Welcome to Tory Britain .

 

[Bletchleyite]

I realise politicians have seriously difficulty telling the truth at the best of times but this beggars belief.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51769184

Why would they need to discuss getting food to homes? All the major supermarkets already have a system for doing that. All they'd need to do is ask that you tell them if self-isolating so the food can simply be left outside the door and the delivery agent has gone away before you go out and collect it.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Why would they need to discuss getting food to homes? All the major supermarkets already have a system for doing that. All they'd need to do is ask that you tell them if self-isolating so the food can simply be left outside the door and the delivery agent has gone away before you go out and collect it.

Most / all supermarket deliveries require a signature on delivery, although I imagine this can be overcome with some straightforward flexibility.

 

[Darandio]

Why would they need to discuss getting food to homes? All the major supermarkets already have a system for doing that. All they'd need to do is ask that you tell them if self-isolating so the food can simply be left outside the door and the delivery agent has gone away before you go out and collect it.

I read it as more of a discussion about getting food to those who wouldn't ordinarily order online, or have never done so such as older folk without internet. In reality I really don't know, and neither does Matt Hancock.

 

[philjo]

I think another issue is that they may not be able to cope with the demand for deliveries if large numbers of people who usually visit the store also start ordering their groceries.

 

[Philip]

The Germany figures for this are a little more reassuring compared to some other countries; over 700 cases and so far 100% survival.

I'm a little fed up of seeing 'you should be ok providing you aren't elderly or have existing conditions' though. The fact is even if you are fit, young and healthy, most of us know one or more who fall into the other category, so it's a small comfort.

 

[MidlandsChap]

Why would they need to discuss getting food to homes? All the major supermarkets already have a system for doing that. All they'd need to do is ask that you tell them if self-isolating so the food can simply be left outside the door and the delivery agent has gone away before you go out and collect it.

I presume they mean if whole towns/cities are told to stay put. Thats a level of demand that they are not set up to deal with.

 

[Busaholic]

I think another issue is that they may not be able to cope with the demand for deliveries if large numbers of people who usually visit the store also start ordering their groceries.

At least two grocery chains have already confirmed they don't have the resources to cope with a sudden surge in demand for home deliveries, and wouldn't be able to do so in the foreseeable future. I believe this was communicated to George 'Useless' Eustice in the short meeting he belatedly held with the supermarkets today which, if reports are to be believed, left the non-governmental participants bemused as to whether our rulers had any plan or clue whatsoever i.e. Brexit negotiations all over again

 

[Bletchleyite]

I presume they mean if whole towns/cities are told to stay put. Thats a level of demand that they are not set up to deal with.

That's something the army would have to get involved in, realistically. But it's also not a likely thing to happen in the UK even with a high infection rate, because the UK isn't China and we don't work like that.

FWIW, talking of China, it's structurally way different from the UK. They have roughly the same number of large cities as us, but their large cities make London look small. Isolating Wuhan is a bit like isolating the South East of England - basically, hardly anybody would notice unless they had a trip away planned. It's nothing like isolating, say, Milton Keynes.

 

[Gostav]

At least two grocery chains have already confirmed they don't have the resources to cope with a sudden surge in demand for home deliveries, and wouldn't be able to do so in the foreseeable future. I believe this was communicated to George 'Useless' Eustice in the short meeting he belatedly held with the supermarkets today which, if reports are to be believed, left the non-governmental participants bemused as to whether our rulers had any plan or clue whatsoever i.e. Brexit negotiations all over again

If really happen, it will not be difficult to provide rationing food and necessity to each household and any non-urgent order should be ban.

 

[StephenHunter]

Austrian Federal Railways has suspended NightJet services to/from Milan after their foreign office advised against travel there and are offering free refunds for any tickets to Italy booked until 12/3.

 

[ASharpe]

There are several problems with expecting online grocers to deliver orders to all of those customers who are self isolating.

Most run with only a small amount of excess capacity on delivery vans and plan growth in capacity going into winter/Christmas - not into spring/summer when customers and staff are on holidays and people generally spend less on groceries.

They expect typical orders to be a certain weight and a 3.5t van can only take a small fraction of 3.5 tons in stock after the van, the chiller unit, fuel, driver and all the totes to store shopping in.There is flexibility for nurseries/care homes on certain days of the week, but not all day and all week - but stockpiling has seen all that go off the rails.

If vans need to reload to frequently due to weight limits then they can't efficiently get more than a few miles from store - not great for rural customers or those the wrong side of town the the supermarket they want.

For a couple of pounds they will pick it all for you while the shelves are full in the morning, send you more expensive items at no extra cost if they don't have what you want and bring it all the way into your kitchen. Far easier than two trolleys full round the shop and through the till yourself.

The people who pick orders work very early in the morning and often have family commitments starting about the same time most of us go to work. So they can't do overtime, end certainly not if schools are closed.

If you don't live in a house in the suburbs it takes at least 20 minutes to fulfil an order - probably much more. Either the van can't park, the driver needs to go up flights of stairs with shopping multiple times or it's a long drive between drops in different villages where each customer has alternating 1 hour time slots. (This could be fixed by only offering much bigger time slots - but then you get back to the weight limit problem).

Time slots - customers expect shopping to be delivered on time so they can take in the order and put it straight in the fridge or freezer. It's nothing like ****** throwing a parcel over your back gate.

The drivers and pickers are at least least as likely as any of us to get a bit of a cough and 37.001C and need to self isolate for a fortnight.

No online grocer covers the entire country - some get very close. but there are major ones (especially the newcomers) who only cover major conurbations where there is money to be made.

 

[The Ham]

Most / all supermarket deliveries require a signature on delivery, although I imagine this can be overcome with some straightforward flexibility.

If the card is registered to the delivery address I don't see why you'd need to have a signature. Simple way to prove it had been delivered is to take a photo of the shopping on the front step.

If you really want to be sure phone the number on the order and get them to confirm that they have everything. Record the phone call as your receipt.

 

[bramling]

I realise politicians have seriously difficulty telling the truth at the best of times but this beggars belief.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51769184

Surely the government can’t really come out and say there may be shortages as this would only serve to inflame any panic buying. With that in mind unfortunately it’s probably better to lie on this one.

 

[Jozhua]

I never bothered having it until I got diagnosed with asthma, at which point it became free so I do have it (the pharmacist offered it and did it on the spot when I went in to collect some inhalers). Think the plastic bag tax regarding motivation there.

Given the low cost of it, one would think that if they offered it to everyone for free more people would, and some strains might even die out.

I would expect a vaccine will be along fairly soon, some are already in testing. This is one reason why the Government are trying to delay any major outbreak, the other being so the winter flu has died down and more hospital capacity becomes available. I don't think anyone thinks they can actually stop it entirely, particularly as you can be infectious without symptoms.

Unfortunately, vaccine testing is going to take 12-18 months. If it gets pushed through within a year, it'll be a miracle.

if that happens there might be bigger fish to fry than your delay repay vouchers.............................

True haha

I hope that all train operators that have toilets on their trains are ensuring they are well stocked with water, handwash, paper towels etc and that all handryers are operational.

That's funny haha. Running water would be a start!

For goodness sake, are you working for the tabloid media? It is a variant of the flu virus, admittedly one that has a potential higher mortality rate amongst the most vulnerable, but nonetheless it is not so far as horrific as you want to imply.

It's not a variant of the flu virus. It's a type of Coronavirus, a family of which approximately 15% of cold viruses are from. Flu is caused by the influenza family of viruses. Typical flu mortality rates are 0.1% COVID - 19 is 1-3.5%, so basically 10-35 times worse than the flu. Plus, figures show it to be around 2-4 times more infectious. Fatality rates among otherwise healthy people are around 0.2%, so still twice as bad as the flu. Death rates rise quickly from those aged 40/50 onwards, going up to 1.2% for the 50-59's. Not good at all.

The real danger of COVID - 19 is the fact it is deadly, but not quite lethal enough to burn through its hosts faster than it can spread. The two-week pre symptom period of spreading is worrying too. Viruses can quite easily mutate too. There's nothing to stop a deadlier strain from coming about, or a new version on a yearly basis.

From those who have had it, doesn't sound like your average flu. Pretty much guaranteed pneumonia.

The Germany figures for this are a little more reassuring compared to some other countries; over 700 cases and so far 100% survival.

I'm a little fed up of seeing 'you should be ok providing you aren't elderly or have existing conditions' though. The fact is even if you are fit, young and healthy, most of us know one or more who fall into the other category, so it's a small comfort.

Totally agree, I'm worried about older relatives, some with immune disorders.

It may be worth seeing what Germany is doing right. I have a feeling that the availability of the correct equipment to assist in breathing, etc is a big factor. Possibly taking action to shield the elderly/vulnerable too.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

We had people this morning at a woolies have a punch on over loo roll.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you really want to be sure phone the number on the order and get them to confirm that they have everything.

The signature in practice doesn't mean you have everything anyway. I've on a few occasions had refunds for missing items that I've only noticed as missing when I have loaded the freezer and cupboards a few minutes after they've gone.

 

[Bantamzen]

It's not a variant of the flu virus. It's a type of Coronavirus, a family of which approximately 15% of cold viruses are from. Flu is caused by the influenza family of viruses. Typical flu mortality rates are 0.1% COVID - 19 is 1-3.5%, so basically 10-35 times worse than the flu. Plus, figures show it to be around 2-4 times more infectious. Fatality rates among otherwise healthy people are around 0.2%, so still twice as bad as the flu. Death rates rise quickly from those aged 40/50 onwards, going up to 1.2% for the 50-59's. Not good at all.

The real danger of COVID - 19 is the fact it is deadly, but not quite lethal enough to burn through its hosts faster than it can spread. The two-week pre symptom period of spreading is worrying too. Viruses can quite easily mutate too. There's nothing to stop a deadlier strain from coming about, or a new version on a yearly basis.

From those who have had it, doesn't sound like your average flu. Pretty much guaranteed pneumonia.

I stand corrected on the virus family. However it is way too early to be nailing down mortality rates. For example the worst death rate is currently found in the US, at 5.9% with around 240 known cases. However in South Korea the death rate is 0.6% with over 6,500 known cases. So it really isn't clear what the mortality rate really is, and what factors can reduce it. Also it is not guaranteed pneumonia, as it very rightly says in the official government guidance don't spread false information.

 

[433N]

From those who have had it, doesn't sound like your average flu. Pretty much guaranteed pneumonia.

So why are we not having a mass pneumococcal vaccination programme ?

[This is a rhetorical question not requiring a response from anyone who is not a trained medical professional or policy maker ; I can speculate all by myself, thank you very much]

 

[The Ham]

We had people this morning at a woolies have a punch on over loo roll.

Friday lunch my local so supermarket had no loo rolls, by 10pm there had been some restocking so there was a good (but still fairly low compared to full stock levels) number of you wished to buy some.

Given that I only have about 25 at home I brought another 100 just to be sure.

Spoiler: ...

no I didn't, that would be crazy, I've got enough for now, probably several weeks, and stock levels will probably improve by the time we get to less than 10

 

[StephenHunter]

We had people this morning at a woolies have a punch on over loo roll.

That's not possible in the UK. No Woolworths.

 

[Darandio]

That's not possible in the UK. No Woolworths.

Entirely possible in Australia though.

 

[StephenHunter]

Entirely possible in Australia though.

Indeed, that was my point. Woolworths has gone from the UK.

 

[185]

Indeed, that was my point. Woolworths has gone from the UK.

So has all the bog roll.

In seriousness though, have heard today that despite rather ambiguous messages from RMT and ASLEF leadership, some reps have been suggesting to traincrew grades where possible, "not to directly deal with the public" which is easier said than done... I'm checking tickets dressed as bucketman

 

[DerekC]

So why are we not having a mass pneumococcal vaccination programme ?

[This is a rhetorical question not requiring a response from anyone who is not a trained medical professional or policy maker ; I can speculate all by myself, thank you very much]

To avoid speculation read:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/common-questions/

Q: Do vaccines against pneumonia protect against coronavirus?

A: Coronavirus (COVID-19) is so new and different that it needs its own vaccine.

Although the pneumococcal (pneumonia) vaccine is not effective against coronavirus, it is still recommended that you have it if offered to you because it can protect against other illnesses.

 

[dgl]

Luckily I know where there is a couple thousand toilet rolls, work might not be too happy about me taking them

We are all prepared as much as possible at work but hope it comes to nothing (other sites within the group have had to deal with norovirus before so that gives us a head start).

 

[westv]

Chap at my work on the floor above me back from Italy and now has "flu like symptoms". Company is doing a "deep clean" of the buildings according to an email I got yesterday.

 

[matacaster]

Chap at my work on the floor above me back from Italy and now has "flu like symptoms". Company is doing a "deep clean" of the buildings according to an email I got yesterday.

I claim my £10!
You work for Northern and the chap came back from Italy with conoravirus in a desperate bid to get a deep clean for your trains?