Coronavirus.

[DarloRich]

I was quite amused by how the Brexit question threw him

He does seem very much to be deferring to experts on Coronavirus, though, which means I do have confidence even if I don't in him.

Agreed - i just think he looks worn out and reeling a bit. I suspect the enormity of being the ultimate world king has hit him quite hard. He might just have found out what the word accountability means.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Now BoJo to put UK on "total lockdown" - esp in London... Is this for real ? Is he now panicking as he doesn't know what to do?

https://www.ft.com/content/e8c98d1c-6926-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcca75

London is facing a lockdown, possibly before the weekend, as Boris Johnson prepares sweeping new measures — including school closures — to tackle the rapid spread of the coronavirus. Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, said the UK government was about to announce “more stringent measures” for London, which Mr Johnson has conceded has become the country’s worst affected region.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now BoJo to put UK on "total lockdown" - esp in London... Is this for real ?

I hear London pubs are still busy.

There is a fairly significant element here of "we have asked you nicely, we will have to force you if you won't".

 

[Darandio]

I hear London pubs are still busy.

There is a fairly significant element here of "we have asked you nicely, we will have to force you if you won't".

Well if people aren't going to listen it's going to take whatever it takes.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Now BoJo to put UK on "total lockdown" - esp in London... Is this for real ?

https://www.ft.com/content/e8c98d1c-6926-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcca75

London is facing a lockdown, possibly before the weekend, as Boris Johnson prepares sweeping new measures — including school closures — to tackle the rapid spread of the coronavirus. Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, said the UK government was about to announce “more stringent measures” for London, which Mr Johnson has conceded has become the country’s worst affected region.

A tiny bit exaggerated but substantially true. In Political English, replace advise with require, ask with demand etc.

 

[Meerkat]

Agreed - i just think he looks worn out and reeling a bit. I suspect the enormity of being the ultimate world king has hit him quite hard. He might just have found out what the word accountability means.

To be honest it would concern me if any politician wasn’t reeling a bit! The old “if you aren’t panicking then you don’t understand the problem”!

 

[DarloRich]

To be honest it would concern me if any politician wasn’t reeling a bit! The old “if you aren’t panicking then you don’t understand the problem”!

I get that. However we could really do with a dull boring calm PM right now!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I get that. However we could really do with a dull boring calm PM right now!

Well, we've got the one we've got, so there's little point in attacking him. I was going to say "other than with sound scientific evidence", but he isn't leading that, so any such "attack" would be against the CMO, not Bojo.

 

[Leo1961]

I get that. However we could really do with a dull boring calm PM right now!

John Major ticks all of those boxes, but of course would need to self-isolate due to his age...Perhaps time for a leader by proxy or a leader by VPN link?

 

[Peter Kelford]

John Major ticks all of those boxes, but of course would need to self-isolate due to his age...Perhaps time for a leader by proxy or a leader by VPN link?

How about handing Nicola Sturgeon the reins for a bit with the condition that she does nothing towards implementing or unduly facilitating Scottish independence whilst she's in?

 

[Ianno87]

How about handing Nicola Sturgeon the reins for a bit with the condition that she does nothing towards implementing or unduly facilitating Scottish independence whilst she's in?

Perhaps a coalition government...just like the wartime government Mr Johnson seems to like to refer to.

 

[bahnause]

Massive amount of cancellations planned on the SBB Network:

https://news.sbb.ch/artikel/96331/coronavirus-severe-restrictions-to-swiss-rail-travel

The Swiss public-transport offer will be gradually reduced from Thursday 19 March 2020. The transitional timetable will be valid until at least 26 April 2020. During this time period, core public transport service and connectivity to essential locations such as hospitals and supermarkets will continue to be maintained. During the first few days of the new timetable in particular, connections may be missed as Swiss public transport has to adapt to the reduced frequency. The core public-transport service still enables implementation of the Confederation’s social distancing recommendations.

 

[thejuggler]

He doesn’t look that all! Hell of a lot of bias here. We are just not used to his serious face.
Now Trump - he is acting like his batteries are going.

I was in the car when Trump did his latest update. He talks a hell of a lot and says absolutely nothing. He must have spent 3-4 minutes going on about 'swab tests'.

Saying the same thing over and over and over again is how he fills the time.

Apparently he has hospital ships they are 'big white ships with red crosses on them'.

The problem with UK briefings is they have absolutely no detail and no more detailed info is available shortly afterwards leaving people very much in the dark.

The .gov website still has no update regarding actual school and nursery closure policy, just the speech, yet it was announced over 2 hours ago.

 

[mmh]

I hear London pubs are still busy.

There is a fairly significant element here of "we have asked you nicely, we will have to force you if you won't".

And that's why, despite the protests that we've not had "lock down" as yet, I think the government have taken the only approach so far that they realistically could have. Other countries are more malleable to the idea of restricted movement, largely due to historical experience. Sadly there seems to be a significant chunk of the younger generation who relish the idea of authoritarian control.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

And that's why, despite the protests that we've not had "lock down" as yet, I think the government have taken the only approach so far that they realistically could have. Other countries are more malleable to the idea of restricted movement, largely due to historical experience. Sadly there seems to be a significant chunk of the younger generation who relish the idea of authoritarian control.

We are being led into very strict measures a bit at a time. I doubt we could cope with instant lockdown with authoritarian overtones. But softly- softly it might well work. As has been said above, people have not been taking the message seriously. There are people on here who do not understand 'non-essential' travel. Well bring in the £135 on the spot fine (as per France) if outside without a good reason. PS If we do follow that route, always carry a shopping bag and have an idea which shop you're supposed to be heading to. Apparently in France you need a permit to leave your home.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Now BoJo to put UK on "total lockdown" - esp in London... Is this for real ? Is he now panicking as he doesn't know what to do?

https://www.ft.com/content/e8c98d1c-6926-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcca75

London is facing a lockdown, possibly before the weekend, as Boris Johnson prepares sweeping new measures — including school closures — to tackle the rapid spread of the coronavirus. Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, said the UK government was about to announce “more stringent measures” for London, which Mr Johnson has conceded has become the country’s worst affected region.

Could we have a quote from the report, please, as it's hidden behind a paywall?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Could we have a quote from the report, please, as it's hidden behind a paywall?

There is reference to it on the BBC too. One of the million Coronavirus stories on the site, sorry I'm not reading them all again to find the link. Thinking about it, it may have been the 'live feed' one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is reference to it on the BBC too. One of the million Coronavirus stories on the site, sorry I'm not reading them all again to find the link. Thinking about it, it may have been the 'live feed' one.

There's a few articles about it on the Grauniad's site. It seems compelling - Londoners seem to be taking the mick and it's running away as a result. There were a lot of people in the pubs when I headed home on Monday but I'd assumed that was a last "we'll pretend we haven't heard yet"[1] night out before being sensible the next day - it seems that has not happened.

I just hope that doesn't reflect on the rest of us and we lose our ability to e.g. go for a run (best form of exercise in this because you can stay well away from others) because some Londoners can't cope with not going out on the lash.

TBH first thing I'd do is shut all pubs within the 6 Zones.

[1] I'll admit I had a "pretend I haven't heard yet" cheeky Nando's at Euston before a last-for-a-while Class 319 ride It was empty and I was sat well away from others.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Londoners seem to be taking the mick and it's running away as a result. There were a lot of people in the pubs when I headed home on Monday but I'd assumed that was a last "we'll pretend we haven't heard yet"[1] night out before being sensible the next day - it seems that has not happened.

I just hope that doesn't reflect on the rest of us and we lose our ability to e.g. go for a run (best form of exercise in this because you can stay well away from others) because some Londoners can't cope with not going out on the lash.

That's just the problem the Italians had, look where they are now. And now the French are in the same position. London will follow.

It's the 'rules don't apply to me because of x,y,z' mentality.

 

[Meerkat]

The problem with UK briefings is they have absolutely no detail and no more detailed info is available shortly afterwards leaving people very much in the dark

That might well be that they are still working on the detail!
Things are moving fast and there are so many issues to cover.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Well bring in the £135 on the spot fine (as per France) if outside without a good reason. PS If we do follow that route, always carry a shopping bag and have an idea which shop you're supposed to be heading to. Apparently in France you need a permit to leave your home.

Yes you need to sign it with address, DOB and one of five fixed reasons they are, namely:
1] Going to work where this cannot be delayed or done from home
2] Going to purchase essential products (gouvernement.fr has a list)
3] Going to seek medical care
4] A significant family-related travel (just seeing family is now banned), to look after children or to volunteer
5] Short trips for physical activity or to walk dogs, specifically excluding collective activity.

There's a few articles about it on the Grauniad's site. It seems compelling - Londoners seem to be taking the mick and it's running away as a result. There were a lot of people in the pubs when I headed home on Monday but I'd assumed that was a last "we'll pretend we haven't heard yet"[1] night out before being sensible the next day - it seems that has not happened.

I just hope that doesn't reflect on the rest of us and we lose our ability to e.g. go for a run (best form of exercise in this because you can stay well away from others) because some Londoners can't cope with not going out on the lash.

I think that the problem is related to homes in the London area being a lot smaller than second homes or families' homes outside. Being cooped up in a 700sq ft flat is less desirable than in a 700sq m house with garden.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

https://twitter.com/AFL/status/1240558479523188736
Tonight's the start of the footy. Normally Richmond vs Carlton draws upwards of 80,000 people. Tonight 0.

I have attended and watched more games than I care to remember. This is truly bizarre.

 

[Mathew S]

Most people have already opted in to using Google maps which uses anonymised location data to, among other things, indicate how busy roads are, how busy shops and attractions are and when people go to them.

How else do you think that data is collected?

One of the things Public Health England uses to monitor flu outbreaks is the number of searches on Google for flu and whether that is going up or down.

There are data protections which mean that an individual will not be identified but some indication of how many phones stayed in one location yesterday is perfectly reasonable data to collate.

That's not what was being suggested, nor is it what's been happening in some other countries where individuals are tracked by their phone movements.
Using anonymised data (though I'd question how anonymised location data can ever be) for high level mathematical epidemiology is one thing. But, to me, eroding individual protections in the way that's been suggested by others is simply unacceptable.

 

[Mathew S]

To be honest it would concern me if any politician wasn’t reeling a bit! The old “if you aren’t panicking then you don’t understand the problem”!

This seems to be the biggest problem, a lack of realisation of the seriousness of the problem. Either that or just plain selfishness.

I had an essential hospital appointment yesterday. On the way there at roughly 0930 I got stuck in a traffic jam, caused by sheer weight of traffic on the A49. I was genuinely furious, I dread to think what my blood pressure was at the hospital.

Seriously, though, people need to start realising that if they don't do as they're told, they are literally going to cause more people to die. Every single extra person that leaves their house is a potential disease vector and, sooner or later, the transmission chain they help create is going to hit a vulnerable person who will die.

 

[AM9]

That's not what was being suggested, nor is it what's been happening in some other countries where individuals are tracked by their phone movements.
Using anonymised data (though I'd question how anonymised location data can ever be) for high level mathematical epidemiology is one thing. But, to me, eroding individual protections in the way that's been suggested by others is simply unacceptable.

Surely, even a 20 year old Nokia GSM phone can be tracked in terms of which base stations is registers with. Only the number would be needed to check that. Yes, I know that the maximum range a base station can connect is 35 miles, but in the majority of locations, a handset will be illuminated by several bases and normally stays with the one with the best signal.

 

[Mathew S]

Surely, even a 20 year old Nokia GSM phone can be tracked in terms of which base stations is registers with. Only the number would be needed to check that. Yes, I know that the maximum range a base station can connect is 35 miles, but in the majority of locations, a handset will be illuminated by several bases and normally stays with the one with the best signal.

Yes, but what use would that rough location data be? The suggestion that was being mooted was something similar to what was done for the BBC Pandemic research in Hazelmere: tracking the precise, GPS location of the handset, and using that to map an individual's movements for contact tracing and to mandate isolation compliance.That, to me, is a step too far because I simply don't believe it would only be used for this purpose, or that the government would give up the capability once this is over.

 

[Bantamzen]

This seems to be the biggest problem, a lack.kf realisation of the seriousness of the problem. Either that or just plain selfishness.

I had an essential hospital appointment yesterday. On the way there at roughly 0930 I got stuck in a traffic jam, caused by sheer weight of traffic on the A49. I was genuinely furious, I dread to think what my blood pressure was at the hospital.

Seriously, though, people need to start realising that if they don't do as they're told, they are literally going to cause more people to die. Every single extra person that leaves their house is a potential disease vector and, sooner or later, the transmission chain they help create is going to hit a vulnerable person who will die.

The moment we start to refer to our fellow human beings as "potential disease vectors", then we have lost. Because we, like the entire animal kingdom, carry all manner of bacteria & viruses with use practically from womb to grave. That kind of language sets people against people, and creates the kind of atmosphere that leads to anger & conflict.

I keep banging on about it, but covid-19 is here to stay. Locking people up in the vain hope that it will go away is not going to work, neither is getting angry at other people. Each person should be responsible for their own health & hygiene, and as a society we need to work to look after those more vulnerable. And there are ways to do this without draconian measures. Some people are getting a bit too used to the idea of wanting such measures rather than being truly proactive.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I keep banging on about it, but covid-19 is here to stay. Locking people up in the vain hope that it will go away is not going to work, neither is getting angry at other people. Each person should be responsible for their own health & hygiene, and as a society we need to work to look after those more vulnerable. And there are ways to do this without draconian measures. Some people are getting a bit too used to the idea of wanting such measures rather than being truly proactive.

I think we need these short term to reduce load on the NHS, but on a longer term basis yes. This sort of thing comes from the very large section of the population who seem to live in permanent fear - same people who won't go out at night, for example.

 

[Mogster]

The concern is that hospital cases will flood in and overwhelm the NHS. In that case vulnerable people will start to die just because they can’t access critical healthcare when they need it irrespective of CoV2.

It doesn’t appear we are at that point yet. Outside London confirmed cases are in single figures still mostly.

 

[Skymonster]

I had an essential hospital appointment yesterday. On the way there at roughly 0930 I got stuck in a traffic jam, caused by sheer weight of traffic on the A49. I was genuinely furious, I dread to think what my blood pressure was at the hospital.

Sorry but that’s your own fault for not leaving early enough. It is not Coronavirus related and could have happened any normal day.

Every single extra person that leaves their house is a potential disease vector and, sooner or later, the transmission chain they help create is going to hit a vulnerable person who will die.

The vulnerable need to take steps to protect themselves too, and the less-vulnerable need to avoid contact with the vulnerable and those who have symptoms. But the whole country cannot just be allowed to grind to a halt through everyone isolating. It’s not tenable and unless we are sure the virus will go away (and I don’t believe that has been accepted) then all isolation is doing is the problem down the line to the point when people do go out again.

What needs to happen is that the fit and those in low risk categories need allowed to get on with their lives which will ensure the country remains economically viable. While doing that they need take sensible precautions especially with hygiene and social distancing where appropriate (especially in terms of contact with vulnerable groups), and isolate if they get symptoms.

The nonsense suggesting those who are well should not go out, should not go into a pub for a drink, should not get onto a bus or a train, is going to damage far more people’s lives in the long term.