Could Crossrail theoretically run to Southend Victoria?

[NXEA!]

Hello all, as a regular user of the NXEA services on the Southend line and someone who's excited for the arrival of Crossrail, I was wondering if Crossrail could run to Southend Victoria? Say if there's around 10 tph offpeak, 4 of them could run to Southend Victoria which would open up many new direct travel oppurtunities and as the majority of commuters change onto the Central line for onward travel to Central London, this would take the change out of the equation. I would propose running the extended services on a skip/stop pattern from Liverpool Street calling at Stratford, Ilford, Romford and all stations to Southend as this would only add 10 minutes to the journey potentially, with peak services having different calling patterns after Liverpool Street. Off-Peak I would maintain the 3tph fast service to London but fast from Shenfield, or if there wasn't enough demand, cut it to 2tph with the remainder of passengers being catered for by the Crossrail as many of these passengers want to travel to Central London, even off-peak. If the service would be cut back a little, I would use the extra stock to run an hourly off-peak service from Southminster, non-stop from Wickford. I've worked out that the current 20 minutely service could be accomodated on one platform at Southend Victoria, so the additional services could be easily accomodated. Also with Crossrail forming the bulk of Peak services this means only around 4 fast services an hour in the peak would be needed, thus freeing up paths for GEML services, and relieving congestion. Accomodating the Crossrail services after Shenfield would be without complications as all trains apart from the Southminster's call all stations from Billericay and there's no freight. The trains that wouldn't continue to Southend could most likely be turned back at Gidea Park or Shenfield and with a quick turn around of around 5 minutes it wouldn't cause any problems I've thought. The only expenditure needed that I've calculated would be to double the spur from the metro platforms to the Southend line which passes under the GEML. So, what do you think? Obviously, its just my mere musings so, if it doesn't work or doesn't sound attractive just say so.

 

[Zoe]

In theory I don't see any reason why not. In practice I doubt it as the East Anglia franchise will cover service from London to Southend, not the Crossrail franchise.

 

[tbtc]

It could happen, but it won't.

Crossrail is intended to be a self contained service. If it were going to extend further then logically the Abbey Wood service would extend to Gillingham etc, but they want to keep it independant (to stop delays elsewhere on the network from impacting upon it)

 

[NXEA!]

It could happen, but it won't.

Crossrail is intended to be a self contained service. If it were going to extend further then logically the Abbey Wood service would extend to Gillingham etc, but they want to keep it independant (to stop delays elsewhere on the network from impacting upon it)

Ahh yes good point tbtc. Don't want to split hairs, but doesn't that sort of arrangement happen between LOROL and Southern? They share tracks and both terminate trains at New Cross, Crystal Palace, and West Croydon and then at New Cross Gate the Croydon and Crystal Palace services run onto their own self contained line, so if a Southern service is delayed it can cause problems for LOROL too. What is the difference with that? Because the East London Line was to increase connectivity by extending it onto an existing line which is what Crossrail would be doing. Like I said, don't mean to be difficult, I was just wondering what the difference would be.

 

[Class377/5]

It could happen, but it won't.

Crossrail is intended to be a self contained service. If it were going to extend further then logically the Abbey Wood service would extend to Gillingham etc, but they want to keep it independant (to stop delays elsewhere on the network from impacting upon it)

Or as I like to put it, don't do a Thameslink!

 

[87015]

Lets see if they ever get Southend Airport open first!?!

 

[tbtc]

Ahh yes good point tbtc. Don't want to split hairs, but doesn't that sort of arrangement happen between LOROL and Southern? They share tracks and both terminate trains at New Cross, Crystal Palace, and West Croydon and then at New Cross Gate the Croydon and Crystal Palace services run onto their own self contained line, so if a Southern service is delayed it can cause problems for LOROL too. What is the difference with that? Because the East London Line was to increase connectivity by extending it onto an existing line which is what Crossrail would be doing. Like I said, don't mean to be difficult, I was just wondering what the difference would be.

LOROL and Southern share tracks (plus the Shepherd's Bush stretch) but Crossrail is going to be bigger than any LOROL line, and they seem to have decided to avoid "contaminating" it with other routes.

As Class377/5 suggests, it could be another Thameslink. Since most services from the east will terminate at Paddington, they *could* be extended to Watford/ Milton Keynes on the WCML (replacing stoppers there) or beyond Heathrow to Staines/ Aldershot etc.

Maybe once its up and running they'll consider extensions to Colchester/ Southend/ Gravesend/ Reading etc. However, this may depend on:

1. Are the Crossrail services to these places replacing existing "semi fast" services?
2. Would people be prepared to sit on an "all stops" Crossrail service to "central" London, rather than taking their existing "faster" service to Liverpool Street/ Paddington (and changing to a tube)?

I'd like to see Crossrail extended to serve more places, in an ideal world, but I think it needs time to prove the central "core" can work and only look at potential extension after it's working well and bedded down.

Further extension would be quite expensive, and it'd only take one minor delay at the far extremes to cause problems in central London. At least, as a stand alone operation, it'll keep working regardless of disruptions to NXEA/ FGW/ South Eastern etc.

 

[swt_passenger]

'Post Crossrail' there are some additional slow line peak services into Liverpool St, from Gidea Park in the morning peak and return in the evening. About 6tph IIRC, so with the 12 tph Crossrail that's 16 tph through Stratford...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

1. Are the Crossrail services to these places replacing existing "semi fast" services?
2. Would people be prepared to sit on an "all stops" Crossrail service to "central" London, rather than taking their existing "faster" service to Liverpool Street/ Paddington (and changing to a tube)?

3. Who will pay for the enlarged fleet required, as the fleet ordered matches exactly the current network size and planned train frequency, so in fact it won't stretch to Reading either...

 

[deltic]

Crossrail was developed purely as a local London railway and previous ideas of running long distance services were dropped. It is possible to run services from beyond Shenfield through Crossrail as this would not require any new infrastructure - whereas running beyond Abbey Wood would. The interesting point is extension of Crossrail to Reading given this line is to be electrified. Unfortunately as I understand it Crossrail were not involved in discussions and implications of the Great Western original electrification as proposed by Adonis nor the possibility of a HS2 interchange at Old Oak Common.

Both of which would require additional rolling stock which as swt_passenger notes has not been factored into the tender that is now out.